Sign for grandchildren

The Children Act has the welfare of the child central.
The Uk is thankfully less litigious than the uS

I know of GP's who have successfully been awarded contact and are able to see their GC Bibbity.

Of course it's not going to go anywhere. Because even if they did get a court order no court would ever actually enforce is Because of the child's best interests.

I'm on pages against GPR and parents have posted in panic because their estranged parent/ in law got some form of visitation and the advice in the UK is always the same. Ignore it.

Never in the UK has a GPR case been enforced.

MissAdventure

So what is the answer then?
Allow parents who want to be vindictive, or who don't want people to shine a light on their activities to just say so, and that's that?
In my neighbours case it got anywhere near going to court, because the parents really didnt have their children's best interests at heart. (And they still don't, unsurprisingly)

If by “shine a light on their activities” you mean bring child abuse to light, then there are already measures in place for that.

But last time I checked, being vindictive wasn’t a crime MissAdventure. So I’m not sure why anyone thinks a court would be interested if the person being vindictive isn’t engaging in illegal activity.

Maybe for some that is the answer MissA.

I would like to think that describing someone who is in favour of this petition and is an estranged grandparent, as having a despicable mentality is not a perfect summary of "the feeling of parents towards this issue" GG65.

It's perfectly reasonable for those who sign to say why, and for those who don't too but there is no need for such a nasty response.

It doesn't add any value to the discussion and does nothing to support the arguments put forward by those who disagree with this petition.

So what is the answer then?
Allow parents who want to be vindictive, or who don't want people to shine a light on their activities to just say so, and that's that?
In my neighbours case it got anywhere near going to court, because the parents really didnt have their children's best interests at heart. (And they still don't, unsurprisingly)

Smileless2012

Well you're wrong TedAc. If grandparents didn't have the right to apply to court to maintain their safe and established relationship with their grandchildren, there would be no provision within the law to do so.

As for the rest of your post, well I think it says far more about you than anyone you're referring too.

As the saying goes MissA 'Rome wasn't built in a day'.

I think TedAc’s post perfectly sums up the feeling of parents towards this issue.

Do you actually think parents would just happily go along with being told that they are not able to make decisions for their own children?

I certainly wouldn’t, although I’m well past this ever being an issue for me.

Well you're wrong TedAc. If grandparents didn't have the right to apply to court to maintain their safe and established relationship with their grandchildren, there would be no provision within the law to do so.

As for the rest of your post, well I think it says far more about you than anyone you're referring too.

As the saying goes MissA 'Rome wasn't built in a day'.

MissAdventure

Oh, I wouldn't say 20 odd thousand signatures is going nowhere.

Honestly, it’s not that many.

The petition to revoke Article 50 had over 6 millions signatures. That went nowhere.

Oh, I wouldn't say 20 odd thousand signatures is going nowhere.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

Seasidelass

Is that likely Bibbity? Did your mother in law up until recently have an established relationship with your children? If not that would never happen.

It would never happen. She didn't have much of a relationship with the two she did meet and we ended it when DS was 3 and DD was 1. DD2 is now 2 and we have not seen or spoken to her in 4ish years I believe.

But regardless. If a parents is deemed fit in every other aspect of parenting and decision making then their say should be final. The nets judge of someone's parenting and character are those who have had to endure it the most.

seasidelass it's important because grandparents rights do exist elsewhere and abusive grandparents have indeed won rights so it is not without precident

Is that likely Bibbity? Did your mother in law up until recently have an established relationship with your children? If not that would never happen.

Claiming is one thing, proving is another entirely Violetsky.

It's just as unlikely that an adult who has estranged their parent(s) would admit to doing so even though they'd done nothing wrong, as it is for a grandparent going to court for contact to admit to having abused their grandchild's parent.

I agree about not making guesses about unknown data, which is why I asked if there was any. Guess work about the likelihood of an abusive grandparent successfully getting a contact order is in my view, equally if not more unproductive.

As the parent of my children I am confident I can make decisions regarding their care. If I am incapable then I am unfit and so can not be in charge of the care of my children.

If my MIL ever did obtain a court order for access she would still never see my children.

If poster wish for their comments to remain they simply need to follow GN guidelines. I am sure the HQ are happy to assist any in understanding.

Thanks everyone for the explanation.

That had crossed my mind Chewbacca as there seem to have been a lot of deletions recently.

Iam64

Maybe it was deleted because it breached the rules about media/journalists
It doesn’t stop this discussion about whether more can be done to help children maintain existing positive loving relationships
My view as already expressed is similar to diamond lily

Yes, I think it’s probably that. I belong to a large forum, nothing to do with parents.grandparents, but if anyone posts a link to their own website, it’s immediately removed.

They are supposed to go through HQ first, giving their background and credentials, on that site.

Maybe it was deleted because it breached the rules about media/journalists
It doesn’t stop this discussion about whether more can be done to help children maintain existing positive loving relationships
My view as already expressed is similar to diamond lily

I cannot see the point in reporting and deleting the post, as now the rest of the thread won’t make sense.?

But, perhaps it was because she gave links to her own website?

Many forums won’t allow that.

Still, people will either sign this petition or won’t, so it won’t make any difference to the end result. I’m not even sure if these online petitions ever change anything anyway.

Why on earth has that post been deleted GNHQ, it was extremely relevant to this discussion and I can't understand why anyone would report it?

No idea Smileless It seems that if there's something you don't like; get it deleted!

I don't think it's productive to make guesses about unknown data.

It could be any number of grandparents cut off for good reason or not good reason. If you ask adult children they often claim abuse and if you ask grandparents they often claim there was none. I still don't understand how courts would be equipped to sort that out.

As things stand grandparents who can prove a positive loving relationship can ask for leave to go to court. I don't see any problem with that.

I personally think that if both parents agree that a grandparent should not have access then they should never have leave to go to court

Why on earth has that post been deleted GNHQ, it was extremely relevant to this discussion and I can't understand why anyone would report it?

I don't agree that the needs of parents who need protect their children from abusive/potentially abusive grandparents are being overlooked.

To balance that argument, the rights of children to continue the safe and established relationship they have with their non abusive grandparents are at the risk of being overlooked.

This petition is to make it easier for grandparents to go to court to put forward a case for continued contact. It would not make it easier, or possible for unsafe grandparents to be able to do so.

There is no sure fired method of preventing mistakes when it comes to contact for grandparents or custody for parents, as recent tragic cases have shown.

Should the rights of children enshrined in law, be put to one side because courts have a heavy workload?

When it comes to custody and contact cases, the mental and financial stress is not something that the courts can alleviate, only the adults themselves can do this by finding a workable solution that is in the best interests of the children.

I agree Smileless that the real focus is often lost and the children being denied the grandparents they love are often overlooked.

Is there any data Jasvinder, that demonstrates how may contact orders are denied to grandparents due to a history of abuse? It would be interesting to know and may ease the fears of some parents due to their own childhood experiences.

I suspect if this data were available it would show a tiny percentage, thus demonstrating the unlikelihood of a grandparent with a history of abuse taking their case to court, let alone being successful.