Sign for grandchildren

Why would safe loving parents choose not to allow their children to continue their safe loving relationship with their safe loving grandparents Summerlove?

I’ve just looked back and seen one of my posts was deleted. I’ve no idea why and I think it’s the only time I’ve had a post deleted.

No, but perhaps better to drop it.

On the comment you are speaking of I have already explained to the best of my ability, what I meant and my thinking.

Other than that I don't think it is sensible to revisit as several comments had to be removed and its not helpful to the topic when that happens

I don’t understand your post
Are you denying your earlier suggestion parents who estrange
Non abusive grandparents will be abusing their children in other ways

Iam64 you haven't addressed what I said regarding me saying something I haven't and I don't think we can continue in honest discussion unless you do

VioletSky

Well there is an example of what I mean Iam64, I have not dismissed the rights of children to maintain loving relationships, the nearest I have come to talking about that was just to say that the court route would also do more harm than good in a lot of those cases too.

Thankfully I'm not on trial here lol

Off to walk off yesterday's gluttony and see the Christmas lights, happy boxing day

Who is putting you on trial? I’ve posted a number of times my view that Court isn’t the place to settle family disputes. Even warring parents can usually be helped to settle disagreements. Those that end in court usually have either awful abuse or very difficult people involved.
You suggested in an earlier post that parents wouldn’t estrange loving parents, unless those adult child parents were abusing their children in other ways. Where is the evidence you base that on?

Differing opinions aren't relevant to the fact that some children would not benefit from a relationship, it's just a fact. You can certainly have an opinion on a relationship you have not experienced but that does not mean you are right.

Again some parents are putting their children first by ending those relationships.

Yes I agree, as things stand works best to ensure that those who can prove a significant positive relationship are able to go to court rather than blanket leave which is not in everyone's best interest

Thankfully, regardless of whether or not this petition is successful, as the law stands it is possible for grandparents to go to court to maintain contact with their grandchildren

This is part of the reason I find this petition so silly.

It’s poorly worded, based on a case where the grandparent is waiting on hearing if they will be going to court for stalking AND the right to ask to go to court for visitation is already available to grandparents.

Safe loving grandparents can be very valuable to a child.

However, safe loving parents should get to choose who is in their families lives.

You raise a valid point Iam. Even a child at the age of 11 or older would not I'm sure be prepared to walk to a grandparents house, if they were left in no doubt that this is not what their parents wanted. That of course is down to the parents.

I do think it's unhelpful to suggest that anyone agreeing, therefore signing this petition is blind to the possibility that some may not be doing so with the best interests of children in mind. Opinions may differ but I that doesn't mean some are more concerned about the children in these cases, than others.

I appreciate parents enabling their children to continue seeing grandparents they themselves don't want to see would be difficult however, where there is an established and valuable relationship there, I fail to understand why any parent would interfere with this if they were genuinely putting their children's interests first.

The possibility of of grandparents actually going to court would be avoided if parents actually were putting the interests of their children above their own.

Thankfully, regardless of whether or not this petition is successful, as the law stands it is possible for grandparents to go to court to maintain contact with their grandchildren.

Who is trying to shut you down, to say your voice isn’t worthy in this debate

That's precisely why I don't explain my reasoning Iam64, you've nailed it! Any attempt to hold a discussion is frequently met with accusations such as this; hence my decision not to bite.

Well there is an example of what I mean Iam64, I have not dismissed the rights of children to maintain loving relationships, the nearest I have come to talking about that was just to say that the court route would also do more harm than good in a lot of those cases too.

Thankfully I'm not on trial here lol

Off to walk off yesterday's gluttony and see the Christmas lights, happy boxing day

Winners

Apologies my phone is misbehaving

…. Dismiss the suggestion that children have the right to maintain existing, loving relationships.
I’ve outlined the difficulties in maintaining those relationships if the parents don’t want their children to continue seeing grandparents post estrangement. Nigh on impossible unless the children were say 11 or older and could walk to grandparents. Even then difficult because responsible loving grandparents would have to make sure the parents knew where the children were.
It’s a horrible situation with no ‘einners’

Who is trying to shut you down, to say your voice isn’t worthy in this debate VS?
You mention The Children Act and Every Child Matters and in the same breath dismiss the suggestion that children

I don't mind disagreeing with you Chewbacca I am not sure I've seen you explain your reasoning but even so your perspective is yours to freely give, as is mine.

I don't agree with you. I think you're massively exaggerating a remote scenario to promote your opinion which I don't agree with in the first place.

No it illustrates the point that this petition is short sighted and overly romantisised because it is picking and choosing which children it believes have rights and even then, it does not hear the voices of those children.

Which is why it is not really about children's rights at all.

Every Child Matters, which is why the Children's Act reads exactly as it does.

The idea that my children could enforce these "rights" is obsurd, which is exactly why I responded the way I did to the person who first mentioned the idea.

Yet I have been told it is the childrens rights to have a close and loving relationship with wider family that are being asked for.

It only reinforces my point once again that this is about the grandparents and not the children.

This petition ignores any kind of relationship except those it deems worthy without even having the ability to measure that worthyness as if the word of a grandparent is to be upheld and believed over any possible reason for estrangement.

People are signing it blind to the possibility that there are those among them signing for reasons that don't have children's best interests at heart at all.

So voices like mine won't be shut down or won't be told that our thoughts don't matter and aren't worthy in this debate. The same way I would not tell any loving grandparent their thoughts don't matter and aren't worthy.

I would only tell them that this cannot ever be and many of us will fight against it and there will always be more voices against than for as this thread clearly demonstrates given its targeted audience are grandparents.

The reasons for doing so are not to hurt or harm any grandparent much is it might be easier to think that way than listen to the truth, it is only to make sure all children are protected from possible harm.

I also find the suggestion that a grandparent living abroad being forced to travel back to the country where their grandchildren live, because his/her grandchildren are enforcing their rights rather absurd to be honest I agree. It's taking the argument to such an extreme that's it's pointless considering it.

We obviously think very differently aged and that's not a bad thing from my perspective

Going back to the wording of the petition this thread is about, I do think that bringing into the discussion grandparents being forced to see their grandchildren and grandchildren being forced into seeing their grandparents, is irrelevant.

The petition is based on the safe and established relationship between grandchildren and their grandparents being maintained.

If this relationship already exists, why would either a grandparent or grandchild have to be forced to maintain the relationship they'd previously enjoyed?

I also find the suggestion that a grandparent living abroad being forced to travel back to the country where their grandchildren live, because his/her grandchildren are enforcing their rights rather absurd to be honest.

TinFoilTiara

That did make me think.

My children would love to see their grandfather more but he lives abroad and has a happy life there.

Imagine if they could enforce their rights and he had to either travel back and forth or leave that life behind.

He is wonderful with them and I love seeing them together.

I remember how it felt when he moved as a teen and only seeing him twice a year but I never for a moment thought about preventing him that choice.

People have a right to choose their own paths in life and do what makes them feel comfortable, safe or happy. We should not be taking that away.

Court’s are not the place to resolve family disputes. Those awful parental conflicts about which parent ‘wins’ on residence and conflict are damaging. Why add more adults to the war?

Although, I do support mothers who try to protect their children from the ex who abused the mum and often the chikdren

I don't think a reluctant grandparent being forced to spend time with a GC could ever be a positive thing, unless the GP decides they quite like the child after all. The child will sense whatever the GP is feeling.

Could I, as a child, have forced my parents to make the trip to visit my GPs regularly, so I could get to know them? No, I had no right to decide if I wanted a regular GP relationship. Sometimes we don't get what we want in life. Not that I missed it as a child. You can't miss what you don't know.

TinFoilTiara

What if it is reversed? My son would have loved to know his paternal grandmother when he was young, even now really. However she had no interest and still has no interest (the only thing I can think of is I divorced her son and put him in jail for DV). Could I or my son have filed a petition to force his grandmother to spend time with him?

That’s a really interesting spin on the question