Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Smiles....as you say ..it will be interesting to see their reaction when the house goes on the market, but tbh even then they won't know the half of what I have planned. From now on I'm playing my cards close to my chest. If they dont want me in their lives then they don't need to know what's happening in mine.

Had my haircut today.. I do keep it in a short crop because it is baby fine. It's also pure white, so a crisp sharp cut works best.

Finished the kitchen declutter today. I'm really pleased with it. Going to tackle my bedroom tomorrow, wardrobe and drawers. It feels so good to be filling up those bags and getting them out of the house. It is very cathartic and I feel lighter and freer.

I have always tried to incorporate a few Feng Shuey principles in my home. They talk about the "chi" (energy) that flows through the house and I must admit the house does feel different.

It never looked cluttered because everything was neatly stored, so the house was always clean and tidy but I always knew the clutter was there and it did weigh heavily, knowing that I had to deal with it.

I've been chipping away for months but it's only recently that I've upped my game and have become more ruthless. The thought of downsizing has really helped me focus and get a grip.

Pixie.....you so right, no one has the right to treat us like rubbish, even if we have made mistakes. We are only human and I know that in may case "widows brain" made me miss the red flags with my DIL. My youngest son spotted them but I'm afraid I was so busy coping with my grief not only of my husbands death, but also that of my parents. I lost all 3 of them within 2.1/2 years.

At one time I had both my husband and my mother in nursing homes. Dealing with adult social services was frustrating and time consuming to say the least. The paperwork alone was a full time job.

I had to move my father into sheltered accommodation, clearing his house was a nightmare because he was a dreadful hoarder.

I also had to sell our family home to avoid bankruptcy because my husbands long illness had destroyed our finances and the bank and the creditors were getting impatient. During this time I also had a bad car crash....hardly surprising with the extreme pressure I was under. The police took one look at the car and said it was a miracle I survived.

Then of course, after each death I had to deal with their estates.
So as you can imagine with all that lot going on it I wasn't always exactly at the top of my game.

So, in all fairness to myself I am not going to berate myself for the mistakes I made during that time, or that I missed those red flags. Yes I'm sure I could have handled things better but I didn't and I'm not going to torture myself.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing and yes with hindsight I think I could have handled DIL better. But the simple truth is she blindsided me, I just didn't realise what was happening until it was too late,

With hindsight I can also see that my son did very little to support me, it was my youngest son who helped me. He came back to live with me to help me care for my husband, he helped me move him into the nursing home. He helped me transform a cold bleak room into a cosy mini bedsit, setting up a computer, tv and fish tank for my husband, he helped me clear my fathers house, doing endless tip runs, he helped me clear my husbands room at the nursing home just two days after my husbands death. And in the years that have passed since it's always my youngest son who lends a hand.

I never noticed at the time but my eldest son did sod all. Why didn't I notice then, how self centred he was. I guess it's true, love makes us blind. I saw my selfish son as I wanted to see him and not as he really was. Whilst it's true he's become unrecognisable now that he is being controlled by his wife, the truth is he probably always took me for granted. I just never really understood till now.

Hey ho,, we live and learn. I will not be fooled again. As the saying goes......"And the truth shall set you free".........I've finally seen the truth and I am finally free.

I realised today that my sons haven't seen each in almost a year, despite my youngest son trying repeatedly to stay in contact, but his brother has just shut him out completely. I know he's been very hurt but he too has changed his mindset and has given up. Very sad but I can't blame him.

DIL has now completely isolated my son, wrenching him away from his family and friends. She's got what she wanted. I never thought I'd ever say this, but, although I do feel sorry for my son, I'm beginning to think that perhaps they deserve each other.

Anyway, as I said yesterday, I am just stepping back and leaving them to their own devices. My youngest son and his partner are doing the same,

The past 15 years have been incredibly tough but I do now feel I have turned a corner. All things must pass and even the bad times come to an end eventually.

I shall be living that mantra "radical transformation". ?.

Good morning everyone and thank you for your inspirational posts. It's so good to see such a positive attitude and how much support there is here.

Thank you also for the good wishes on the birth of DGS. I doubt whether I will see him in the foreseeable future, but it is good to know that he and DD are safe and well. I just ponder how they can call him after DH, live in a property bought from money from DH's family, and think it is alright to prevent his widow from meeting the baby. I know that it is SIL's decision, but I don't understand why DD goes along with it. Useless to ponder, I don't reach any answers and it would just drive me mad, if I let it.

I agree with Whiff that estrangement is much more common than you would think. If you confide in anyone, I can almost guarantee that they will have had a similar experience or know someone who has. One evening, on holiday, the conversation opened up and, of 8 people on the table, 7 had experienced direct estrangement, from a child, parent or sibling etc. Also very common is estrangement in stepfamilies, especially after the linking person dies. Perhaps that is when long buried tensions come to the surface and there is no need to make an effort or, often, it also concerns grievances over inheritance.

Anyway, I have digressed. I just meant to say that it is easy to feel embarrassed and ashamed, to the extent where we feel the need to hide things, but we are certainly not alone. The beauty and strength of this thread is that we can realise this, and gain so much from sharing our experiences.

Like DerbyshireLass, Purplepixie, and others, I also intend to get on with my life and to find peace of mind, as best I can. I previously told DD that I will not chase or beg to see my DGC. Nor am I prepared to be a puppet on a string (isn't there a song in there somewhere? ) In order to achieve this, I agree that it is necessary to detach, mentally. My DD lives a considerable distance away, which makes it easier in a way. It must be soul destroying to bump into an estranged loved one in a local shop, for example. I totally understand why the move has been so beneficial for Smileless.

Like others, I am facing significant anniversaries. Today is 15 months since DH's death, and tomorrow will be two years since his diagnosis. The pain and yearning is immense and those days, when he was alive, and our DDs were young, and we were a happy family unit, seem like another world. Like those old sepia photographs of distant ancestors, just so many ghosts. And sometimes DD seems like another one of those ghosts, as though it were all a dream.

hugshelp - I am intrigued by your creative writing, as it is something which I have always wanted to do. In fact, as part of my determination to create a new(ish) me and a new life, I have booked a writing course on a remote Greek island, which also includes activities such as yoga (strictly voluntary). I am hoping that it will kick start a new chapter in my life.

Petitfromage and Whiff I also agree with you. I think there are far more people estranged than we realise. Also whilst on holiday at different times we met two couple who were both estranged from their children. Can't really remember how the subject came up. Both sets of parents had done so much for the AC. Maybe on holiday you open up to strangers, thinking you will probably never see them again?

PF your writing/yoga holiday sounds wonderful. Just what the doctor ordered.

I agree, Hugs, your creative writing course sounds great.

I think this is my way forward. Join some groups, such as language classes, creative writing, something arty/crafty.

During my decluttering I came across some Italian language CDs. I do speak a smattering of Italian so I'll give it a go. Maybe join a class. I really would like a couple of trips to Italy at some point.

Had another nightmare last night, very unsettling but I just remind myself it's only a dream, my brains way of filing and sorting.

Cold, dark and windy.

Another day decluttering and sorting.....?.

PF. Meant to send you virtual hugs and ❤️? for today.

My would be anniversary tomorrow. I'm ok so far.

Best wishes to all with anniversaries, hope they are not too sad for you, mine are December and February, but now I don’t really feel any different on that day, I think I get low shut up as the nights get longer and feel more cut off. The first few years were not good, looking back on dark days, thinking back to the trauma, I concentrate now on the happy days, the Wedding Anniversary and Birthday, buy myself a present and flowers. It took years though for me, I hold on too long, glad for what I once had. Of course I do get low without warning but have learnt that they pass.
DL, I am glad you finally have acceptance of their behaviour, once you know you can’t alter a thing just your attitude it really does get easier.

I had a bit of a wobbly this morning. DH was off to the charity shop with some items and I said I would have a sort out before he went. I opened a drawer and there was an envelope holding some photos of my eldest son. It was a christmas past showing him, my mam and my youngest son. We all looked so happy and that was before he met and married his wife. Yes, we were all younger and sadly my mam died back in 2009 but it reminded me how thing used to be. Also beside it was a photo of him and his sister when we were on holiday abroad as small children. It really shook me but that was then and this is now. I’m glad that I have made the decision to move on and not go running to them. If I get an apology then I might rethink things but he has always spoken to me as if I was rubbish for a long long time. We are all only human after all and bound to have wobbly days.

Pixie.....sorry to hear you are having a wobbly day. Hope you feel better soon.

Just having a little break, have whizzed through my wardrobe, sewing boxes, and have now made a first pass at my desk whilst I sort out my banking and look at February's budget. Will need to really tackle the study another day, but can't face it today. Going to go through my jewellery boxes later. Some to sell, some to go to the chazzer, some to keep.

Just keeping busy, stop me ruminating and fretting.

PF DSL. Some of these anniversaries are incredibly painful and can cast a shadow not just for the day itself, but for days afterwards.

Time does help, it does eventually take the raw edge off the pain but I think the pain will never completely disappear.

We've never berated ourselves for how we were with our ES's wife. We genuinely loved her and welcomed her into our family. Looking back of course there were warning signs but unless you've ever experienced a narcissist, you don't know what those warning signs are.

And TBH, I honestly don't think if any of us had been able to read the warning signs, it would have made any difference. Our AC had already been ensnared. Would anything we could have said have made any difference? If someone wants you out, is there any way of stopping it?

Those bad dreams are your subconscious decluttering DSL, upsetting I know but it is an indication that your whole self, body and mind, is coming to terms with what's been happening and preparing you for the way forward.

Writing is very cathartic hugshelp. I used to write poetry but haven't done so for ages. Maybe I should pick it up again. I'm finding my choir very cathartic. I love to sing as no matter how fed up I may be feeling, singing always makes me feel better.

It's almost as if sharing even just the tiniest piece of our estrangements, gives others 'permission' to speak love0c which is why this thread is, as we all know so important.

I often wonder how many read but never share; how many are comforted simply by knowing that they are not alone.

Absolutely Allsorts; acceptance is the key that opens the door to a new and different life. That life may well be as it is for PF and DSL; the perpetual cycle of everything being OK or low contact or for periods of time no contact. But, having coping mechanisms in place and in your mind firm boundaries is all part of accepting that the only thing you can change is how you react and respond.

That's hard PP and it happened to me a few months ago. I thought I'd put all of our photo's in one rather large box, but was looking for some paperwork and came across some of our ES's primary school pics. I just sat and cried.

You know, even if you were to get an apology a move could still be a good thing. Some geographical distance could strengthen your relationship as it may be a reminder to your son that taking his parents for granted is not something to be done lightly.

We have our own lives to lead, just as they have theirs and we have just as much right to be happy as they do, even if it means that happiness is at the exclusion of them.

Pixie, I still have those moments, how did it come to this. I have taken all the photos down.

I'd love pure white hair DSL - my dirty grey isn't attractive. Happy new haircut. Well done with all the decluttering.
You've been through a lot, absolutely no berating! - fine job getting through it at all. x What you say about looking back and seeing how your son was self-centred and did little to support - I can relate to that.

Wow, your experience of just how common estrangement is astonishes me PFF. I was so grateful to find this thread and realise I'm not alone. It does make me wonder how many are out there, suffering in silence, and thinking they are the only ones. Will be thinking about you over your trying days to come. x
A writing course on the Greek Islands sounds divine. If you want a little support closer to home, with access to lots of learning resources, I cannot speak highly enough of writers HQ. There's loads of fee courses, although you can be come a member for even more. Friday night we have a 'Friday Flash off' over zoom - where a few people are chosen to read out their pieces. We have a bit of a giggle. Then Saturday morning we get a new prompt to get us writing for the following week. If you wanted to just come along and watch on a Friday evening (8pm) - you would see what a lovely, kind, supportive bunch they all are.

In case you're interested: talk.writershq.co.uk/index.php?/forum/90-flash-face-off-weekly-challenge/

Learning Italian sounds wonderful DSL - I always think it sounds such a beautiful language.

Oh dear, I'm not surprised that gave you a wobble PP. We had loads of our son's stuff here for years after he estranged us - a permanent reminder - I was so glad when he finally arranged to get it. (via a third party). We do still have photo albums though, which I look at very rarely.

OOh, I think writing poetry is the hardest thing smiles. I'm in awe of anyone who can. You might also fancy the forum I mentioned above. Lots of inspiration, and also places you could submit to can be found on there, if you fancy putting your stuff out in the world.

Well, I'm utterly impressed with everyone and so happy to see all this positivity. What a wonderful lot you all are.

I've been pottering away at my writing course today. Painted a radiator as part of the spruce-up to move project. Also went on a little walk - under grey skies, but still pleasant. We found a wood that should be full of snowdrops soon - just small shoots atm - but we'll be back hopefully.

sorry PFF that was FREE courses not fee

I wish I could say to all widows here that grieving gets less as the years go by. But my experience it's gets worse. You just cope better. I remember years ago saying to my son when do you think the grief will ease he said perhaps in 20 years. Can't see that happening plus the added grief of estrangement. But coping gets easier. But have plenty of wobbles along the way. I don't grieve over my parents as they both lived to 80 and 90. Dad wanted to die he hated his body . My mom died long before her body did. Dementia and Alzheimer's is a living death. Like others here doing everything I can to keep my mind and body active. I don't want to become like my mom. I don't want my daughter and family to see what my mom became if I got dementia. It was only years after mom died did I tell my children what I went through with her. My mom used to say as she got older don't let me go do alley tap her way of saying don't let me go mad. That was her greatest fear and it's what happened to her.

I suppose like a lot when loved ones get ill and died you realise there is more than one sort of grief. And it effects you in different ways. What shocked me is the rage and anger I felt when my husband died. Felt wicked for a time but then realised it's normal. And instead of holding it in I let it out. The relief I felt was amazing.

After the disbelief and sadness over my son the anger and rage came again but knew this time to let it out . I have said before I talk to my husband every day. How I raged at my son for treating me this way and raged at my husband for leaving me and if he hadn't died it would never have happened. But I know it's still could have but my husband wouldn't have put up with what I did for years. He would have stopped it in its tracks. He would have fought an army for me . But when it came to his parents I had to fight my own battles. I used to ask him why and he used to say he loved them and where is parents. I think back now and see the years off them not showing him any love and denying him the attention he craved as a children took it toll on him. So much so that not matter how they treated us he was just used to it. But I wasn't brought up that way but he got all the love and attention and being told they where proud of him from my parents and extended family .

Woke up this morning crying . I used to cry a lot in my sleep and he used to wake me up and hold me until I feel asleep. Very rarely done that since I moved. But I don't feel sad.

My life is what it is good and bad. But I chose to live it to the full. I will not live my life on hold waiting to see if my son decides he wants his mom back. He has destroyed any trust I had in him and can never forgive him or my daughter in law. And boy can I hold a grudge . I haven't forgiven my brother for something that happened 30 years ago when he was married to his 2nd wife. Mainly because he knows me better and by his actions hurt my husband and our parents. And hurting them was unacceptable. But saying that I love my brother and now sister in law very much.

It's lovely to see so many making plans for the now and future. And sharing those plans. Giving eachother advice ,support , understanding and friendship.

After my son's letter I put away all the photos that had him and my daughter in law in them. But have a frame in my bedroom with 8 photos of their eldest 2 and the last photo I had of them together in my living room. Along with other family photos. I know they won't look like that anymore but they are innocent in all this and are my grandson's and I love them and miss them. The photos make me smile.

As usual rambled on. Well that's me my brother says I have diarrhoea of the mouth. ?. But I write as I talk.

Keep well my friends and all those with anniversary's ??.

Me too. I don't need that constant reminder.

Hope that the good memories of past years will help to ease the sadness of today to all who have anniversaries.??

I’ve had a few days of difficulties myself but hope now that all is a bit more settled and I can relax a little and get on with improving my own health and fitness. Diet is going to need improving first to fit into some of the new clothes I’ve ordered for myself I’ve still to get a hair and nail appointment but that will happen soon.I hope.

Reading the very enthusiastic and encouraging support on this thread has really helped me to buck up and take charge of my own life so I’d think smileless that a few more lurkers than you realise will be doing just that. It really is a lifeline to those of us who are missing our beloved children/grandchildren.

Take care all.

Ramble on Whiff. I enjoy your chatty posts. It's like a virtual coffee Mornjng.

Sorry to hear you woke up crying but glad that you dont feel sad, I think Smiles is right, crying in your sleep is probably the same as me having bad dreams, it's our brains way of sorting things out, helping us heal.

Today would have been my 39th wedding anniversary but I feel ok. I have been widowed for 7.5 years. Like you say it doesn't get easier but I agree, I think we just learn to cope better.

The good news is my blood sugar levels are down today. I have been extra careful this week and I am pleased to say it's working, still no weight loss but hopefully I'll start seeing results soon.

The plan today is one final push with the decluttering. I have done well this week, have done some every day. It's good to see it leave the house. There's still a few bits in the loft and some in the shed and I do need an admin session but it's nothing urgent.

I'm just going to have a break from it now. Whilst sorting through my wardrobes I noticed a few gaps so I might indulge in a bit of retail therapy for some lighter pieces to refresh my summer wardrobe.

Electrician here, better make them a coffee.

I think talking and writing keeps me sane. It’s good for you, someone once said, so ramble on Whiff.

I am so sorry that you woke up crying Whiff and I know what that is like. Last night I dreamt about my mam and it was so funny yet I had a good cry when I got in the shower this morning. Such happy days in the past. My mam was a very strong Northern woman, along with her mam and her eldest sister. All forces to be reckoned with. Dad was a lovely gentle gentleman who died when he was just 58 from cancer. I think about them every day.

Take care all and stay safe.

I couldn't agree more hugshelp the positivity here is wonderful and I think is what really makes this thread work.

We are all so much more than our estrangements and I'm sure that by talking about other things in our lives we remind ourselves, show one another and those who maybe read but never post, that there is life after estrangement even though it feels at times there isn't one.

There are times when we need to talk about our loss, triggered by an anniversary, coming across something that brings back memories and/or finally making a decision that we've struggled to make. Even deciding to put away photo's is hard, but thankfully not being one for having them out on show, that wasn't something I had to face.

Moving is perhaps the hardest one of all

Then there are times when we're forging ahead with our plans that are all about us and those we love who love us in return. Even the smallest and simplest of tasks completed is worthy of celebration and sharing.

'Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life'. This thread does exactly that. for each and every one of you x

Sorry you woke up crying Whiff. I hope it was your body and mind's way of letting go of some pain while you slept.

Sorry you've had a tough few day GS - hope you have some much better ones now.

Glad you're feeling ok DSL and your blood sugar levels are too. You've been a proper whirlwind; a bit of retail therapy as a reward sounds perfect.

I agree smiles - sharing the titbits of our days reminds us we're not just estranged people. I need to remember to hang onto that on the hard days.

Had a productive writing morning. Did a bit of knitting this afternoon and made a batch of gluten-free/grain-free pastry for the freezer. Writing group online meetup tonight while DH watches the footy and it's DH's turn to cook - he's making salmon. Good day for me.

Stay well dear friends.

well I typed out a post earlier this morning, before my post @ 10.41 and I've just realised it's not there. Could have been due to the fact the the plumber arrived to replace the kitchen tap and shower in the family bathroom. He was booked in for the 21st of this month, so it was quite a surprise when he arrived just before 8.45.

So this is more or less what I thought I'd posted earlier.

I remember Mr. S.'s mum being taken aback by how angry she felt when his dad died Whiff. It must have been a terrible shock. She'd left him in the sitting room with his book while she went to prepare their lunch, which had taken a bit longer as a friend had 'phoned, and when she went to tell him lunch was ready, he'd died.

I suppose lovely for him, but a terrible shock for her. When we got there, he was still in his chair and looked as if he was asleep.

They've left you haven't they. They didn't want too, but they've gone and your left with trying to live without them. I can't imagine how painful that must bex.

Well we splashed out today, bought a new washing up bowl and sink drainer to go with our shiny new tap and a new kettle. Talk about living the high life.

There's something wonderfully satisfying about new bits and pieces for the kitchen smiles. Enjoy.

Yes there is hugshelp, funny the things that give us pleasure when we get older.

Well I've decided to take myself in hand and rather than feeling sorry for myself, actively try to get myself out of this bloody awful rut I seem to have been stuck in since the beginning of the year. Thank goodness it's only the 5th of February!!

Good start by doing my exercises this morning but goodness me did it take some effort; not just doing them but getting started. I know that exercise increases your energy levels so am determined to keep going. For someone who was working out 4 or 5 times a week, for this to have been only my second session this year is pretty diabolical.

Mr. S. keeps asking me if I'm OK and what's wrong, but I'm not OK and I don't know what's wrong, so all I can say is 'no not really and I don't know'.

Hi everyone lovely to read all your posts I’m so glad the thread started again as I’m probably one of those lurkers who likes to read but not to contribute too much!
Is it that time of year where everything seems dull and sad where we are just wishing for longer nights and warmer days
I’m feeling very sad at the moment my husband’s cancer treatment is really taking it out of him it’s very hard to see him suffering and can’t do much to help I’m sad that our DD doesn’t care and wants nothing to do with us and I’m sad that our GD doesn’t know us anymore. I’m probably just having a sad day.
Love to you all x

Smileless2012 My youngest son always says that it is OK to not be OK and that always sticks in my mind when I feel so dreary and down in the dumps. Today has also been one of those days for me. I’ve tried to keep busy but I didnt sleep too well last night. Yesterday I broke another piece off the tooth that broke about a couples of weeks back. That is the second tooth to fall to bits - just like me! I’ll have to phone the dentists on monday and hope they can do something.

Nanalouise - I’m so sorry that you have to go through so much. I wish I could waive a magic wand and help your husband. It’s hard watching them suffer.

I haven’t seen my daughter in over 7 years, some days are harder than others. On 20th December I had a horrible phone call with my eldest son and I have decided to push him and his family into the background. Hard decision but they have treat me like rubbish for long enough. Thankfully I have a lovely youngest son who is so kind and thoughtful. He keeps me going.

I am so glad that this thread is here as it keeps me sane during times when I could scream non stop 24/7!

Oh Nanalouise I'm so sorry. I remember how hard it was when my mum was being treated for cancer. It's very upsetting to see someone you love suffering, when there's nothing you can do.

It will be bringing home to you both, how awful being estranged from your DD is, and how hard it is knowing that your own child doesn't care.

Your son is quite right Purplepixie "it is OK not to be OK" it's just when it seems to be dragging on that it bothers me. How annoying about your tooth. Hopefully the dentist will be able to do something about it.

It's so sad when you feel you have to make the decision you've made. It was a hard decision for me to send that 'goodbye' email to our ES but something I have never regretted.