Friendship,advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

Thank you whiff , I will think of your words when I am at my lowest , I am truly sorry to hear of your pain, how brave and strong you sound. I've never been able to say the words that are coming out to you all because apart from my sister no one can understand , and I've been giving my sister so much love tears and support I havnt really supported myself . I've given all to my sister and cried with her on the phone, she saw the first born only a couple of months and never met the 8 month old . She kept telling me I was lucky to have had time with mine all be it controlled by daughter and she is right as she said at least I knew them . Between us we realise our daughters are narcissist, at first we blamed ourselfs but sister says her daughter has NPD and it is a mental health illness . Thank goodness her other nice daughter had a baby boy 3 months ago so sister can cuddle and love him .
17 years I tip toed and walked on egg shells around my daughter so I could see the girls , I buttoned my lips apart from one time 3 years ago when I left her house after she turned nasty towards me because I asked the girls if they wanted to come shopping for a couple of hours without permission from her first , I didn't think first I just invited naturally as I was going . Daughter turned in to cruella devile and started shouting at the youngest and made her cry , I cried and I left the house and drove home . I was blocked for 8 months until I wrote an apology card and said I was sorry for my mistake , she rang when she received it and asked me over. I should have learned then , but I saw the sadness in the girls eyes that there had been a big argument caused by me !
Like you all I must live and move forward , to be honest I'm sick of crying and I'm sick of feeling lost and sad . I keep busy , I do community work and summer is coming and today is another day . Thank you Whiff , thank you all

Toetoe welcome to a club none of us would wish on our worst enemy. Please don't wish yourself dead. Life is full of wonderful things and experience to have now and in the future. Just because our children don't want us and take our grandchildren away from loving grandparents there is still so much to love about life. It saddens me when someone thinks they would be better off dead.

My wonderful darling husband didn't want to die and it was so unfair as I have been ill as since found out all my life but my syptoms got very bad 34 years ago. When our daughter was 4 and son 6 months old. I was 29 and my husband 30. But my wonderful husband just said we alter our life to suit you. This was 1988. 2001 we found out he had grade 4 malignant melanoma and given 5 years to live he died in 2004 . Four days after his 47th birthday. Our daughter was 20,son 16 and me 45. He was very wise my darling man and knew what I needed to live with out him . So he made me promise lot of things . But the main one was live the best life you can. And I do . Those promises I made are very important to me.

Why I have told you this is because unless you are dieing of a horrible illness life is to precious to waste. No matter what life throws at us it is worth living.

At my blackest moment I did wonder if my son had wished his dad had lived and I had died instead. But soon dismissed that thought. As thought of all life has thrown at me since my husband's death and I have battled though and won. I don't think my husband would or could have done the things I have on his own without me.

So please never wish yourself dead. You will get all the support and friendship here just stick with us. Smiles made a safe place to be as she is our guiding light who started the thread years ago. Without her and others here I couldn't have got through the last 2 years.

Toetoe you are not a moaner you are a mother in pain ,a pain we fully understand and feel. Have you read some of my rambles . Here you can say exactly how you feel it's not moaning it's being honest how you feel. My son not only threw me away but all our side of the family. My daughter has washed her hands of her brother and my brother would gladly thump him. My friends are either happy families or haven't got children. So here is the only place I can really talk about how I feel.

I miss my son and 3 grandson's everyday. I don't even know the name of the youngest or his exact date of birth only he was born in July 2020 and have never met him. I image he looks like his brothers and I have given him a name as it hurts to much to think of him without one.

But I know I am a good mother, mother in law and grandmother. And my son knows that for all he says the opposite as he knows what a bad mother,mother in law and grandmother is he knew my husband's mom so did my daughter in law.

Thank you I'm not sure how to like or acknowledge your replies yet but hope to work it out . There are many times I don't want to be alive any more as there doesn't feel a reason to be apart from just keeping busy doing groundhog things , and I am being honest when I say I hope I die naturally sooner than later . I am alone and sister lives 135 miles away so apart from phone calls and texts life can be empty we see each other 2 or 3 times a year. Don't get me wrong I'm not being a victim I'm just saying how I truly feel , I have a small group of friends who know but they have their own lifes and problems and I am quite private and don't openly talk about it as it must get boring and what can they do . So I'm here and hope I can be supportive. Sorry if I'm a moaner but I've had a few sad days again. Thank you for reading

Welcome toetoe. I know it's baffling when you are estranged and the behaviour you are on the receiving end of is awful. You will find almost everyone on this thread feels or has felt that way.

Hello Toetoe, your experience resonates with me. My daughter estranged everyone too. I went through years of hell as thought she must be ill to do something so awful, tried everything to reconnect, now I feel as you do, so much pain caused to everyone, broke the family. Don’t like what she’s become. Wish I had given up years before I did. Glad you have your sister as support. How awful she has estrangement to. What a way to treat your own children. , I think our daughters get jealous if their children give their love to anyone other than themselves , it’s all about control. Hopefully one day our grandchildren will break the cycle and realise you don’t treat anyone like that. So welcome to this thread as we all understand how you feel and get support knowing others in tge same position.

Thankyou both . I did write a long reply , tried to preview then amend spelling then lost the lot ! However i will try again. Ive come to the conclusion i dont like my daughter and i wouldnt care if i didnt see her from one year to the next . I often had long talks with son in law about his parent's and how wrong it was to estrange but he was too afraid to rock the boat and wanted a quiet life . Then when it happened to me for almost a year he didnt contact me to ask how i was . I now have learned my lesson. The oldest gd is almost 17 and is about to learn to drive , i hope as she matures and wonders why she never saw her grandparents in Kent and has the courage to find them before its too late as they must be in their 80s now . I also think of the future and when both girls mature will they wonder why they had no grandparents? My only son and only daughter despise each other havnt spoken for 5 years and he lost all contact with the girls . I have had no family gatherings for 5 years because of those two selfish adult kids i gave birth too . I am about to arrange a pure creamation as decided i dont want a funeral because no one speaks to each other. As i write this deep feelings of utter dislike for my own adult kids rises from my tummy area so i will stop now . I am sorry to hear of your suffering and send my thoughts to you . Thank you once again

Sorry posted too soon and don't know how to
Go back and make corrections.

Anyway there's a lot of us struggling with either full or partial estrangement. You are with friends.

Hello Toetoe. You have come to the right place for friendship
And support. You are in a very delicate situation. One that echoes my own, not fully estranged but always walking in it's shadow.

We walk a tightrope and it's very stressful. It's been a painful and humiliating experience and I sometimes despair at
the lengths that I go to to try and maintain a relationship with my son and see my grandchildren occasionally. I often feel like telling my DIL to get out of my life but obviously I don't. I keep my lips sealed and my thoughts to myself. I'm playing a long game in the hope that one day my son will see the light and start standing up for himself. I would walk away tomorrow but I feel obliged to be there to watch over him and try in some small measure to support him.

Good that you have your sister. I too finally confided in my sister. At first my pride wouldn't let me but in the end I relented. Tbh she has pretty much guessed there was trouble in otwas been very supportive as has my second son and his girlfriend. I have also confident in close friends too.

What has stunned me is how many of us are in the same boat. Either fully estranged or

A very warm welcome to our support thread Toetoe and don't worry about spelling mistakes or anything else that you post. Our sole motivation for being here is to offer one another support.

I can believe the situation your sister finds herself in, because we're the same. Estranged from our youngest son and don't know our only GC.

Your D and her H have estranged his family and she is limiting the contact you have with her children, having left you in no doubt last March, what she's capable of.

I don't need to say this but I'm going to all the same; this is not your fault. There's a clear pattern of behaviour here which includes the total disregard of other's feelings and family relationships.

It's good for your's and your sister's sake that you have one another for understanding and support. "What is wrong with people?" we'd all like to be able to answer that one but what's more important for me than being able to come up with an answer is that we know this is not our fault.

If nothing else I hope that you and your sister tell yourselves this as often as you need to. I also hope that having found us, you'll talk to us again .

Sorry about misspelling i am unsure how to edit my post

Hello all im new here and this is my first post to you all . I did all i could to help when first g daughter was born 16 years ago then second now aged 11. The girls have never been allowed to sleep over much only 5nights for 1 night only over 16 years though i know they wanted to stay more often it hurt but i accepted it. Daughter always kept me at arms length. Last march daughter verbally attacked me out of the blue and stopped all contact from the girls as well . My sister was blocked from all contact and the oldest girl blocked her too . 10 weeks ago i wrote to ask if i could visit for a couple of hours and i was welcomed , i didnt stay long. I then had a visit for an hour or so on mothrs day /birthday . Ive not seen them and to be honest i havent really wanted to be with my daughter and can say that i dont miss her. I do send the odd text to the girls just to say hello but i must accept they are getting older and dont or wont want to much contact with me . My daughter and her husband stopped all contact with his family 14 years ago and they dont know their granchildren at all. I know what my daughter is capable of so i now tread carefully . Can you believe my own sister is estranged and doesnt know her 2 granchildren either . She is btoken . At least i know i can see mine even if its a few times a year only but daughter has made it plane to me she is in control as and when .
I am getting better now and sister and i support each othet . My daughter has pushed all blood relatives away from those girls they have no family at all except parents and now very rare contact with me .

What is wrong with people is there any reasons why . Thankyou for reading .

My son also rewrote history with the letter he finally sent Whiff. I didn't expect any response to my requests for any actual examples of the accusations he made so I'm not surprised to have heard no more. He actually said, "I'm not interested in what you have to say," several times in the letter and made it clear it was all about him having his say. I'm not sure why spewing a load of hateful lies at me helped him but if it did I'm glad. It certainly helped me, because I was able to move on from a position of wondering what on earth I did to knowing that I certainly didn't do anything that warrants the things he said.

Nice to see you DSL. I'm sorry you're having to see your son l like this, but at least you know he knows you're around if he ever sees the light and have the precious contact with your GC. x

I must admit smiles - I often think it would be good for our EC to have a small hit to their overconfidence, which makes them see they are not perfect and may have to rethink some things. I would hate for it to be on the scale we have, but enough to give their head a wobble as they say, because I think, in the long-run, it would actually make them genuinely happier.
Go Mr Smiles, you are indeed blessed and a lovely lady to appreciate and deserve it.

Thanks Yogin. That's the first time I managed to hand feed one but I know other people who have so I've been trying my luck for a while.

Yogin

Lovely photo Hugs We get lots of squirrels in our garden, would love them to eat out of my hand! We get lots of foxes too, yet no woods nearby

Nice to hear you have been discharged from the hospital Whiff must make you feel easier about your health. I had a squirrel in my loft, a friend leant me a squirrel basket to put in the loft, didn't catch it, but it just went on it's own accord.

Well done Smiles on your choir singing, I'm sure it's very uplifting, unlike your church accounts

Lovely to see your post DSL. I'm so sorry that your son looks worn out. I remember the last time we saw our ES and how terrible he looked it was heart breaking to see the effect that his decision to estrange us appeared to be having on him.

No idea how he's doing now but maybe like us, after 9.5 years his life has settled down and he's at peace as much as he can be with himself.

It's great that you still see him and the children but it must be so hard seeing the way he is and being unable to say or do anything about it .

This is a good time of the year to have a house on the market so hopefully you'll get plenty of interest when the time comes, that said, you only need one buyer. So take care dear friend, stay strong and remember that we are all here for you, willing you on x.

Our EAC may be in for a rude awakening in the years ahead hugshelp, hopefully not but if they are it may give them a tiny glimpse of the pain and suffering they've caused.

He just wrote what made him right and me this vindictive and manipulative mother it's horrible isn't it Whiff, there's no other word for it.

Mr. S. is getting ready to go to our flat to do some more work. He's working so hard and doing a fabulous job. Has lined the kitchen floor with ply wood to create an even base for the cushion floor we'll be getting, and will be fitting the laminate flooring in the bathroom and entrance hall himself.

Handsome, kind, loving and talented. I'm a very lucky lady. .

Hello everyone. Still reading along. You are all so inspirational, you help me more than you know.

I'm still hanging on, biting my tongue. My son looks Ill and worn out whilst DIL goes from strength to strength. She's like. a Vampire sucking his life's energy from him. There's nothing I can do except be there.....

But at least I get to see him and my grandchildren. Not often but it's better than nothing.

On a more cheery note the house will be going on the market in a week or so.

Take care all ❤️

Catterygirl

With respect. Is this an American thread. Do British people call their mum, mom. No offence. Just curious.

It's a regional thing.

There are certain regions in the U.K. who use the term "mom", whilst in other regions you will find will the word "mam". The word "mum" does tend to be the most common.

There are plenty of nationalities who post on gransnet.

Catterygirl what you lead you to think this was an American thread? Don't you think estrangement happens in Britain? As my brother would say if you cut us open it would have English stamped through us.

Yes this and all threads are open to anyone from and country.

But surely if you have read this thread the phrasing is British and I know I have referenced areas in the country. I called my mom,mum and mommy when young and very occasionally mother. Same as my daughter and son called me. It's like my grandson's call me nan,nannie ,nanna and when my daughter's eldest is talking a lot he sometimes forgets and calls me mommy?.

No, it's a basically British thread, although I think there may be some parents from other countries that join in.

I would say that most British use the term "mum", but some may use "mam" or "mom".?

With respect. Is this an American thread. Do British people call their mum, mom. No offence. Just curious.

hugshelp you are so right . I know things my parents did wrong bringing me and my brother up. But they did the best they could. And would never treat them the way my son has treated me. Plus his rewriting history. He said things he has no idea how I reacted to things because I didn't tell him and he didn't ask . He just wrote what made him right and me this vindictive and manipulative mother . He's words.

I choose not to play his game . As I could right a book about what he and my daughter in law have done wrong with the 2 of their 3 boys I know. But I wouldn't do that as it's cruel. And I am and never have been cruel.

I could have done what they have done and denied my husband's parents the grandchildren . But grandparents and extended family are important. It's where you come from and they are part of you. As without my horrible in law's there wouldn't have been my wonderful husband ,our children and grandson's.

Love to see our children's faces when our grandchildren are older and turn round and criticise how they where brought up.

Certainly wouldn't fancy a squirrel in the loft whiff. Grey and very windy here today. Chilly for the time of year.

I've seen threads like that a few times Hilltops and there are a few voices urging to see both sides, but not many, as you say.
You've hit the nail on the head there smiles - everything the younger generation does is perfect and the older generation got everything wrong. It's so blinkered and divisive, all these boomers and other generation labels. Some of them really do seem to think they've re-invented the wheel and got it right this time, and are totally blind to the fact that other generations might also have done what they believed to be correct.

which goes some way to explaining why estrangement appears to be so prevalent Hilltop. So many AC today believe to be, and are regarded by their peers of paragons of virtue, it just has to be the parents who are at fault.

You're certainly a busy little bee Whiff and your cakes and biscuits must be going down a storm if they want your recipes.

We tell ourselves time and time again, how fortunate we are that we never knew our GC. Losing little strangers is bad enough but to lose the GC you know and spent time with is truly awful.

Thread on Mumsnet about estrangement now. ' AIBU to worry about Adult DC going NC'. I am pleased to see that at least one poster says it's not always the parents fault, though most say it is.

It was sunny here this morning Smiles. So spent a couple hours in the garden . Planted out some runner beans plants and repotted my spares to give to 3 women in my craft group. Also the same women have asked for some of my cake and biscuit recipes. Every couple of weeks I take some to have with our tea. I love baking but can't keep it for me still trying to lose the stone and bit. So if I take it to craft or exercise class I have just one.

Sad to see another estrangement thread where the grandchild is used as a pawn in the never ending way adult children punish their parents.

For me it's hard enough not see 3 of mine but it's made it easier as they have already been taken away from me 2 years ago. I would hate to see them and know any minute they could be taken away. Then allowed to see them and have them taken away again. I now my limits .

I am lucky that moving mean I have better health care. If I still lived in the Midlands still wouldn't know I was born with HPX and have PAF.

I had forgotten it's bank holiday Thursday and Friday so no craft group . A road near me has all the houses down the one side with union jack bunting on. Mind you lot have union jack flags or St George's cross on flag poles all year round. Lots of Liverpool FC flags . There is a parade on Sunday in the city with the footballers and cups.

I never go into the city as everything I need is close by.

Hopefully sunny again tomorrow.