Pregnant and abusive daughter

We arent talking about the people you encounter at work though.
Plus, not every person who has responded to this thread is involved in a similar situation.

Smileless2012

I would have done the same in the OP's position Grandpanow. When responding to others, our advice is often based on what we would or wouldn't do in the same or similar circumstances.

I had little doubt, it seemed triggering to you that anyone would think that part was problematic. Giving good advice should not involve judging people based on whether we would have acted exactly the same. There’s a reasons clinicians recommend one thing and do another- it’s often easier to see the right thing to do than to do it one self. That could be a benefit to forums and people not emotionally involved with the situation. Often the best advice is given by those who can removed their needs and interests from the equation.

To those pointing out this seems close to victim shaming - I do think that analogy is apt. I’m not saying ops situation rose to harassment at all. But there are parallels in repeatedly calling someone to situations I’ve encountered at work where dv victims are called 5 or ten times a day. If they don’t answer, the ex partner calls her (usually) family, her work, and her friends. It’s not healthy then and we counseled there are few reasons to repeatedly call an adult when he or she chooses to not respond. It was part of breaking the cycle to help them understand “he’s worried” it’s a sufficient reason to behave as such.

I don't understand why there's so much emphasis on blame here.

The daughter didn't let mum know she was ok, didn't answer her phone for a while, during a time when she was stressed. If she felt unable or unwilling to communicate at that time that's perfectly understandable.

Mum rang the household to check her daughter was ok. A mum that has been babysitting and sending money which has been accepted - and my point here is that therefore, although they may not have been seeing eye to eye on everything, mum hadn't been cut out of the daughter's life. I see no statement that mum had been told not to do so. I see that the husband intervened 'in case the daughter was cross'. - I see no indication as to why he suspected that would be the case. There are many possible reasons but we haven't been told. Therefore I see no evidence that mum did anything wrong either.

I don't actually know how the family got from that point to the angry exchange about something that happened 22 years ago, nor what that was.

I see a lot of assumptions based on only a brief outline of a situation that leaves more questions than answers.

Smileless2012

There are many theories when it comes to understanding relationships and how best to negotiate difficulties. That said even those of us who know and understand them, don't have them at the fore front of our minds when in the midst of a difficult situation.

Our actions and responses are based on instinct rather than theories.

Another very true fact. None of us can live up to a life based on some theory of how we should conduct ourselves at every moment. We can use various theories and insights to help us reflect and learn but most of us muddle through the best we can without applying deep analysis to our every action as we go about our days.

Added to which I've seen more theories and advice manuals bite the dust to be replaced by the newer, better, version than I care to remember. Every generation tries to do a little better, but can also be guilty of thinking, 'aha now we have all the answers.' If only.

The daughter is not responsible for the mother's behaviour.

If only the daughter had sent a text, the mother wouldnt have been called is shifting blame and excusing the boundary break

No one has forgotten that something happened 22 years ago that deeply impacted daughter, that daughter brought up boundaries as an issue or that daughter needs an apology for everything that has transpired or she can't move forward in the relationship

TBF we don't know that the OP's 'phone call did cause any additional strain, and if it's something that someone else would have done in the same situation, then of course they wont see it as wrong.

I think victim blaming is a bit strong, why is the D a victim here?

Of course anyone has the right not to respond to messages, just as anyone has the right to try and find out by other means if someone they're worried about is OK, if their attempts to get a response from that person fail.

The fact that the OP felt cornered by her D and s.i.l., was falsely accused of something that happened 22 years ago and has been told if she doesn't apologise "for everything that will be that" seems to have been conveniently forgotten.

Knowing that what the OP did in calling FIL caused the additional strain, how can so many still advocate that it was fine, as that’s what they’d do?

That really the fault is still with the daughter as she should have anticipated the mother would do that? That if she’d just given into the demands on her to respond to the text all would be fine?

This veers towards victim blaming, and something that would be totally unacceptable if it were a former partner doing it.

Mother or family or not, Daughter and husband have the right not to respond to messages.

Continuing down “she could have stopped it” does not help repair OPs relationship with her daughter. No matter how justified some posters think she was.

I would have done the same in the OP's position Grandpanow. When responding to others, our advice is often based on what we would or wouldn't do in the same or similar circumstances.

I hope not, this isn't about anyone else justifying their behaviour, OP wants her mother daughter relationship back on track

* I’m very surprised that there are so many comments blaming the daughter.*

I suspect many of the responses are highly associated with whether the poster would have called the FIL and felt justified in doing so. In that view, it is not so surprising.

Very true Pammiel.

I think that's a good point, that the mention of whatever happened 22 years happened after the f.i.l. had disclosed he'd had a 'phone call. That that may have resurrected previous issues with boundary/confidentiality.

I know I would have been worried having tried to contact my D for 4 days, with all that's been going on, and getting no response.

All the psychology in the world is of no use when your gut is telling you something is wrong

True!!

Smileless2012

There are many theories when it comes to understanding relationships and how best to negotiate difficulties. That said even those of us who know and understand them, don't have them at the fore front of our minds when in the midst of a difficult situation.

Our actions and responses are based on instinct rather than theories.

I agree - and in this instance the OP was acting on a mothers’ instinct that after four days of no contact, all was not well. All the psychology in the world is of no use when your gut is telling you something is wrong.

Sorry - posted to soon. I also think it’s significant that the row over what happened 22 years ago only blew up after the FIL told the son that the OP had rung. Not sure if that indicates some perceived problems with boundary/confidentiality issues in the past.

* Since she knew her daughter was with the son in law, and with the son in law’s family, there should have been no fantasizing that something was “wrong” with the daughter that required maternal intervention. In the unlikely event that daughter got injured or sick OP would have been informed in due time. Not, perhaps, on her timeline but the daughter’s timeline is the only one that matters.*

I think ‘fantasizing’ is a bit harsh. The OP stated that her daughter had had several surgeries, IVF and has several ongoing physical problems. She also clearly stated that her daughter wasn’t in a good place emotionally. The OP was also worried about some issues her daughter has with some of her husband’s family and feared for her mental state. I realise that there had been some estrangement for a couple of years, but this doesn’t appear to have been serious enough to stop the OP from babysitting on a regular basis, or from helping out financially, during what was obviously a stressful time during the pandemic. Do you not think that, given the OP was a first hand party to all of this - and after all she is her mother - she might have had good reason to worry about her daughter ?

Great theory DiamondLily.

Theories aren't a "one size-fits all" anyway.

People are what they are, and endless theories won't change a thing.

I don't know, as I've never got into this "psychology" stuff - I keep it simple with my theory of if all parties show love, respect, consideration, honesty and understanding, then most things can be solved.

But, of course, life isn't always that simple, because it can be impossible to change the behaviour of others, if they lack those things, or have their own agenda going on.

There are many theories when it comes to understanding relationships and how best to negotiate difficulties. That said even those of us who know and understand them, don't have them at the fore front of our minds when in the midst of a difficult situation.

Our actions and responses are based on instinct rather than theories.

A stark reminder Deez of how as DiamondLily has said, "Life can change in a heart beat".

Excellent post hugshelp even though she's not been back to post, I hope the OP reads it.

We support one another, and of course those most affected need the most support, but those supporting them understandably need reassurance that the one they're supporting is OK.

IMO the OP simply wanted reassurance that her D was OK. Thankfully everyone knew that the baby was alright when her D went away, her mum was concerned about her mental health because of how her D feels about some of her H's family.

I’m very surprised that there are so many comments blaming the daughter.

It's not about "blame", people are offering different perspectives on where things are at now and why, on the basis of the information given by the OP

eg many have suggested over various comments both that it was not appropriate for the OP to contact the FIL or ask for secrecy but also suggested that the problem would not have arisen had the daughter acted differently!! That is not blame that is balanced comment on mistakes all round!! The OP can consider those two aspects as she sees fit

Yup know the ring theory too.

Following the ring theory of support, I’m very surprised that there are so many comments blaming the daughter.

In the ring theory, the daughter is in the primary circle. Her husband would be secondary (he could be in the first with her, but as she’s the pregnant person, I’d say that his support goes to her). Then grandparents, close friends and family in the third.

OP was seeking reassurance for her worries. That’s not the job of the primary circle. Support is to go TO them, not FROM them. OP knew her daughter was with her husband, not alone. There’s literally nothing the OP could have done for her daughter while she was visiting at her in-laws, so why was she so determined to get ahold of her? If her daughter wanted to reach out to the OP, she would have.

The daughter was struggling, in the face of possibility devastating news. She shouldn’t have to take responsibility for other people’s feelings on top of that.

DeeZ

Not knowing what the perceived slight of the past was that caused this riff, all I can say is children will always punish their parents and parents will love them anyway. Hit the reset button. My son and I had a strained relationship throughout his adult life. I don't know what I did wrong but it doesn't matter. What matters is we told each other that we loved each other three days before he was killed in a motorcycle accident just before his 43rd birthday. He was my only child, my life, my reason to feel proud! He had 2 stepchildren he lost in divorce and none of his own. So in short, be grateful for all you have because despite all your family woes, you are a lucky mother and grandmother. Savor any tidbits you can get and I wish you and your daughter all the best and all the hope for the future. You have so much to be thankful for.

That's very sad, DeeZ.

It's hopefully a comfort to you, that despite your difficulties with each other, that you could acknowledge and express the abiding love you had for each other, regardless of any disputes and arguments.

Life can change in a heartbeat, and very often only regrets are left, when someone dies, over things that weren't said and dealt with.

Losing someone puts all these family fall outs into perspective - most family fall outs can be solved with love and willingness on both sides.

Look after yourself.

Excellent and very perceptive post hugshelp

Not knowing what the perceived slight of the past was that caused this riff, all I can say is children will always punish their parents and parents will love them anyway. Hit the reset button. My son and I had a strained relationship throughout his adult life. I don't know what I did wrong but it doesn't matter. What matters is we told each other that we loved each other three days before he was killed in a motorcycle accident just before his 43rd birthday. He was my only child, my life, my reason to feel proud! He had 2 stepchildren he lost in divorce and none of his own. So in short, be grateful for all you have because despite all your family woes, you are a lucky mother and grandmother. Savor any tidbits you can get and I wish you and your daughter all the best and all the hope for the future. You have so much to be thankful for.