Pregnant and abusive daughter

I’m a therapist in real life—I can assure you that family relations are quite complex and often horrifically dark. No one, not Smileless or anyone else, can state a priori that whatever happened 22 years ago was not important to the OP’s daughter or that the vaunted money or support wasn’t well understood in the family to be just an attempted pay off for the harm. Just because OP shied away from accountability by discreetly avoiding naming the issue—while broadcasting her daughter’s private personal medical issues and trauma online—doesn’t mean we all have to pretend that this isn’t an obvious case of Issendai’s “the missing missing reasons.”

While smileless argues that the OP’s daughter should have realized that a mother’s love trumps a child’s privacy perhaps the daughter, as violetsky proposed, learned from motherhood that her own mothering had been problematic and is now wanting a reset?

Also the OP is asking for help—she asked the FIL and she asked the board. It’s not helpful to support her in the fantasy that she is the victim here of cruel/selfish people.

I'm sorry that your D went through a difficult and protracted time Madgran and all credit to her for doing what she could to let you know that she was OK, so at the very least easing your own natural and understandable concern.

It's such a shame when what evolves into a big issue with needless repercussions can be so easily avoided DiamondLily. Already a mother herself, it's a pity that the OP's D was unable to see her mother's actions as being the natural ones of a concerned mother.

I agree that whatever happened 22 years ago was not sufficient for the OP's D to accept the financial and practical support she's received, or to prevent the OP from developing a relationship with her GC.

To threaten to take that away unless the demand for an apology "for everything" IMO is rather strange and cruel.

We don't know that was the case Summerlove and TBF to the OP no doubt if that had been said, her mother wouldn't have been concerned enough to contact her D's f.i.l. when she'd failed to make contact with her for 4 days.

I agree that we can only advise on what has been said and that there is nothing to be gained by conjecture, especially for the OP.

If a discussion is to be had about events from the past, it needs to be carried out calmly and with maturity. Understandably the OP's D has been through an extremely stressful time, so not the best time for her and her H to raise the matter.

I am new here but have been reading for several months. Forgive me for joining in with my opinion. I concur with Violetsky and Summerlove . My read on the original complaint is that the OP has a rocky relationship with her daughter (for more than two years) and has had unpleasant conflict over it (something happened 22 years ago) which she either doesn’t accept (never happened/wasn’t important) or know was important/did happen but is unable to apologize for or accept the negative consequences for.

During the current crisis she was asked to help with childcare but her daughter and son-in-law, having received the bad news, retreated for comfort and support to his family home.

Since she knew her daughter was with the son in law, and with the son in law’s family, there should have been no fantasizing that something was “wrong” with the daughter that required maternal intervention. In the unlikely event that daughter got injured or sick OP would have been informed in due time. Not, perhaps, on her timeline but the daughter’s timeline is the only one that matters.

The split in the board comments is interesting since some commenters react most strongly toFIL, as they see it, letting the side down by narking out OP to his son. In their view mother love/anxiety and fellow grandparent/elder status trumps all other relationships and principles (such as father love, respect for autonomy, and respect for daughter’s privacy).

I don’t share that view. I try to be respectful of my adult daughter’s right to privacy and autonomy and I would hope their significant other’s parents would return the favor. I would never ask the other parents to keep a secret—a surprise, of course, is another matter.

OP knew her intrusive pursuit of contact/information would be unwelcome, that is why she asked FIL to keep it a secret. I don’t think she is helped at all to be coddled and told that the conflict is everyone else’s fault but her own. That is because OP is the only one whose behavior she can control. So she is the only player who can make a move to make things better—or worse.

Her daughter and father in law might be awful people but slagging them off won’t get OPmwhat she wants which is a warmer relationship.

Starting your own parenting journey can really highlight things. When situations happen and we react differently it can be easy to then wonder why our parents reacted differently.

Things can also happen in childhood that may seem nothing to us but that caused issues for our children.

Whatever the something was 22 years ago or however it was handled or whose fault it was or wasn't, it's going to need a discussion when daughters life is more settled because its obviously impacted negatively and needs to be dealt with. Daughter can't do that alone so even if it's hard for OP they need to do it together

Do we actually know that before she went that the daughter didn’t say something along the lines of “I’m ok, give me space?”

So much focus on what the daughter did wrong in not responding to her mother is not going to help.

If someone doesn’t respond, worried or not, people need to take a hint. To turn that around to “my daughter didn’t answer me so I was forced to use other routes” is dangerous and will not help OP revive the relationship.

As far as “apologise for everything or be cut out”, not enough information was given for me to make a judgement, so I’ve let it go. With more information I’d be able to advise. Otherwise it’s conjecture.

We can only advise on what was said.

I can't help thinking that a 30 second text saying something like " stressed out and don't want to talk at the moment, but all fine physically with me and the baby", would have stopped all this drama before it started.

I don't, and never do get the concept of apologising for unknown offences, or for "everything" - a meaningless demand.

Whatever happened 22 years ago didn't appear to have affected acceptance of financial help or babysitting up until recently, which is strange.

At some point, an honest talk between OP and DD is obviously needed.

I agree about the text message Pammie. It would have stopped the problem at source.

I am proud of my own daughter who in the midst of a dreadful situation that she was dealing with over a couple of years, never ever didn't keep in touch, touch base, let me know she was OK. At the very least it stopped me worrying quite so much about her, which in the circumstances that she was in, says so much about her as a person! I do accept that we didn't and don't have the types of relationship problems that perhaps this family are dealing with but even so, in terms of the pressure she was under it would have been easy for her to drop the "contact baton!"

I am saying all this because although stress and pain and worry and upset can make everything seem just too much, it doesn't mean that everything can just be "excused" or be "understandable"! I have sympathy for tge OPS daughter for what she has been through but struggle with what we have heard is her way forward with whatever her problems with her parents are!

The "Apologise for everything .." really doesn't allow any sort of dialogue to be opened up, which just seems so strange after baby sitting has been "allowed" even recently and financial input accepted apparently happily.

I do understand that the FIL may have had fears about being embroiled in the problems, but as I said previously I believe he should have at the very least said openly to the OP that he was unwilling to keep the "secret". And to be honest asking how one's daughter is in these circumstances having not heard, really does seem pretty human!!

I still hope the OP can find a way through this but that can only happen if some sort of dialogue is "allowed" at some point and all parties want that.

I've said more or less the same Pammiel, a simple text message telling her mum everything was OK would have sufficed. I do agree that "the OP didn't this out of malicious intent, she did it because she was worried".

So much focus on the 'phone call seems to have detracted from the OP being falsely accused of things that happened 22 years ago and being told she "must apologise for everything or that will be that". IMO these issues are just as, if not more significant than the 'phone call and the f.i.l.'s actions.

Of course in any relationship, apologies are needed for mistakes made and there'll have been mistakes on both sides but, demanding an apology for "everything"!!!.

pammie I’d be devastated in OPs shoes. But I’d hope that I’d remember that what daughter was going through was hers to go through and that my job was support. Daughter put up boundaries. My job would be to respect that, not call around looking for information.

What we get here is the after story. My advice is meant to help see through the emotions.

I’m still shocked how so much of the after affects are blamed on FIL, when it was OP and her husband who put him in the middle.

I hope OP gets this resolved, but that can’t be done without realising that she made mistakes.

I can’t speak to Daughers actions, I don’t have her side. Perhaps she needs to apologise too. Though, putting all the blame on her for not making sure her mothers emotional needs were met is not the way to go forward.

Grandpanow sorry

My argument is that, things are strained for OP right now but like others on this thread, I think they don't need to remain strained and they certainly don't need to lead to estrangement.

In order for that to happen it is better for both parties to be completely honest and have all the facts.

"I was very worried and desperate and called to check on you when I should have respected your need for space"

Will ultimately help OP more than

"I called to check on you and didn't think you should be told I was doing that and I'm angry at your FIL for telling you"

One deals with what OP actually did

Two blame shifts

That's the problem I see with it anyway

It strikes me that this thread as devolved into bickering amongst posters regarding either their own emotional hurt or apparent conflicts with each other. While of course everyone has a right to do this on public forums, I feel for the op who clearly wanted help. Couldn’t some of these fights be had elsewhere in the off chance that the op returns? It’s one thing to bring perspective, it seems another to make the situation about oneself.

VioletSky

Diamondlily In my situation I didn't tell family members the things my mother said about them behind their backs. Truly awful things I won't repeat as they would be very identifying.

This backfired on me because I didn't know she was also telling them awful untruths about me.

After we estranged I lost those family relationships and I could have blown everything up with the truth but I couldn't be the one to do it. I couldn't bring myself to hurt them so I let them go.

Asking family members to lie and keep secrets is wrong.

FIL has set a boundary. He won't be party to talking about his son and DIL behind their backs. He won't play that sort of game.

In future OP will know that, this man is in fact a trustworthy ally to his son and DIL. She needs to ask herself, had this been reversed would she be comfortable with anyone asking the same of her? Or would she have told her daughter? Why would telling her daughter be wrong if the call was innocent?

Now I have learned a lesson and I will keep people's secrets but I won't keep secrets that involve others I care about. I also won't put anyone else in that position.

Your post would be more relevant if the OP had rung the FIL and started prying into what was happening. She didn’t - they were simply worried after the daughter went NC for four days after receiving some worrying news. He wasn’t asked to hide some terrible secret, and he wasn’t party to talking about them behind their backs - they simply wanted confirmation that their daughter was OK, and they didn’t want to make things worse by letting her know they had made enquiries. The OP didn’t do this out of some malicious intent, she did it because she was worried. And her daughter had cut her parents out of the loop deliberately for quite a long time, knowing they would be worried. Not a nice thing to do, and I think people have lost sight of that. The FIL agreed not to say anything and then immediately went and did just that, sparking a nasty row. How is that helpful ?

He wasn't asked to lie. He was just asked how a very worried OPs daughter was.

I wouldn't have passed on the information.

Diamondlily In my situation I didn't tell family members the things my mother said about them behind their backs. Truly awful things I won't repeat as they would be very identifying.

This backfired on me because I didn't know she was also telling them awful untruths about me.

After we estranged I lost those family relationships and I could have blown everything up with the truth but I couldn't be the one to do it. I couldn't bring myself to hurt them so I let them go.

Asking family members to lie and keep secrets is wrong.

FIL has set a boundary. He won't be party to talking about his son and DIL behind their backs. He won't play that sort of game.

In future OP will know that, this man is in fact a trustworthy ally to his son and DIL. She needs to ask herself, had this been reversed would she be comfortable with anyone asking the same of her? Or would she have told her daughter? Why would telling her daughter be wrong if the call was innocent?

Now I have learned a lesson and I will keep people's secrets but I won't keep secrets that involve others I care about. I also won't put anyone else in that position.

Summerlove

^But they weren’t asking for information that the couple didn't want to share - they rang the FIL because they were worried about their daughter having not been able to contact her for 4 days, and just asking if she was OK. It’s natural to be worried and there was no need for the FIL to say anything - especially as he had been asked not to.^

As they were not answering messages, I’d assume any information was information they didn’t want to share.

FILs loyalty is to his son. Not his sons in-laws.

Am I reading this wrong ? After receiving potentially serious news about her unborn baby, the OP’s daughter effectively cut her own parents out of the loop by going to stay with her in laws, a hundred miles away. Then she went NC for four days knowing full well how worried they’d be. Then had a hissy fit because they were so concerned that they rang her FIL to see if she was OK. I understand the effect that the news would have had, and it’s also clear that there are others issues between the OP and her daughter, but I don’t think any of them are an excuse to treat her parents like this. If she’d simply rung them to explain that she was OK, wanted some time alone to process things, and would ring when they were ready, the situation would never have arisen. And whichever way you look at it the FIL’s actions made things worse, and he must have known that when he rang his son. There are times when you put your personal feelings aside and look at the bigger picture, and this was one of them. Are we really saying that we wouldn’t be hurt if put in the same situation as the OP ?

Over the years, I have never found that any sort of family conflict is ever helped by anyone tittle-tattling to them about what another family member has said or done.

It's just stirring the pot of aggravation further.

I hope it all gets resolved anyway.

Smileless2012

The f.i.l. was asked not to tell them about them about the 'phone call. He appears to have volunteered the information. Had he been asked if his d.i.l's parents had 'phoned and he'd said no, that would have been a lie.

I agree, saying nothing wouldn’t have been a lie unless asked outright. I suppose he may have seen it as a lie of omission and not been comfortable with it from that point of view, but why agree to keep quiet and then break the promise ? At least now the OP knows where she stands with him.

Honestly, it takes a long time for me to stop seeing the best in people and quite a lot of evidence I am not misunderstanding or being unfair to them

VioletSky

hugshelp I think that how it is read very much matters if you are a person or belong to a group of people that others need or want to see the worst in for whatever reason.

It's never right to assume that EAC don't genuinely care and aren't genuinely trying to help and every time that idea crops up it needs to be shut down a it I unfair and untrue.

At least let the person receiving the advice judge for themselves anyway when they are coming here for first time

I'm not looking to see the worst in anyone. Are you?

I was merely pointing out that tone is conveyed by the written word. I perhaps ought to have added that another thing that affects tone is whether we acknowledge any points made by the person we engage with or simply keep reiterating our own position.

I'm making none of the assumptions that you allude to but I acknowledge that is something that can happen.

Who is stopping anyone judging for themselves?

Assuming you have been told before, that's the problem with assumptions. Some people have never been told and are still waiting.

The key word is "repeatedly"

Assuming you have been told no before, why keep trying and make the situation worse?

That's not walking in eggshells, it is the lack of willingness to read the room or accept the decision of the other party

Good posts hugshelp. I think when we are only communicating with the written word more care is needed. More attention to detail, because the tone isn't as audible as it is with speech, but that doesn't mean that a tone doesn't exist.

Facial expressions and/or body language that can convey so much aren't available, so of course we respond to what is written because that's all we have to go on.

"People generally walk on eggshells when they are met with angry out bursts and attempts at discussion are repeatedly shut down". I think you've summarised that very well.

hugshelp I think that how it is read very much matters if you are a person or belong to a group of people that others need or want to see the worst in for whatever reason.

It's never right to assume that EAC don't genuinely care and aren't genuinely trying to help and every time that idea crops up it needs to be shut down a it I unfair and untrue.

At least let the person receiving the advice judge for themselves anyway when they are coming here for first time

Madgran77

*VioletSky Also why walk on eggshells rather than find a time to sit down together and have a conversationabout what is wrong in the relationship?*

Only possible if all parties are willing to do that

Quite. People generally walk on eggshells when they are met with angry outbursts and attempts at discussion are repeatedly shut down.