Handling Duty/Obligation as the "estranger" ;

Well I'm shocked Mia I really am. Did they say exactly what has been posted here by EP's that has reduced them to tears because I am at a complete loss as to what that could be.

Somehow I ended up with two Narcissistic parents. They parted with great acrimony when I was young which, in hindsight, worked better for me than I realised.
Despite the damage my mother inflicted on me, I have chosen not to estrange her for a variety of reasons although I have considered it. At the end of the day, she was very damaged as a child too and in her chaotic way, she was always there for us although you sometimes had to look hard!
My father and I are now completely estranged; my choice. He is an abuser in every way and has done things that nobody can ever forgive. He is currently in prison and I hope he dies there although the adage, "only the good die young' seems to work for him. He has had 2 families and destroyed them both. I actually gave him another chance after 27 years and soon realised nothing had changed. In order to avoid losing the connection with my half siblings, I kept up a distant relationship but could see it was only a matter of time before I cut all ties again. When he was arrested, I just turned my back. There were no words of good-bye, I just ignored his letters. I went to the court so I could see justice done. I don't hate him, he is dead to me now. There is a sense of relief I will never have to deal with him again.

My favourite ice-cream? There are too many to choose one but they are mostly B&J's with chocolate fudge brownie in the mix!

To answer the question in the OP;

Zero guilt. Victims owe their abusers nothing.

?

hugshelp

I posted as someone who has been both estranged and estranger in good faith. If there is something unacceptable about my post please tell me what that is.

Hugs, thank you for sharing your story. *My comment wasn't directed at you at all*I also responded in the other support thread.

My comment is for the handful of "wrongfully estranged" who came in here criticizing the name of my post, the fact that I asked about people's favorite ice cream, etc.

It's really terrible actually and I would've left a long time ago had I not received messages from strangers, I'm up to 7 now, thanking me for trying but also trying to help me. They talked about posting here and being brought to tears by the EPs. They suggested other friendlier spaces that might be helpful.

I'm here for them and anyone else who identifies as "the estranger" and stumbles upon this thread needing a space to talk. Some people are both estranged and estranger, like yourself hugs and myself too actually.

Again, thank you for sharing, I really appreciate it

I posted as someone who has been both estranged and estranger in good faith. If there is something unacceptable about my post please tell me what that is.

I'm totally on board for a protected forum for estrangers because IMO there's no safe space from the estranged coming in for "discussion/debate".

How can I go about getting this set up?

Iam64 Wise post!

True Iam64

Thanks for sharing your story hugs. What tough times, what resilience and courage to see that whichever ‘side’ of estrangement people are on, it’s painful.
I have some experience of a loved one who, like your son, estranges people who disagree with them ‘my way or the highway’ was a phrase often heard.

I understand why these discussions can easily polarise, though it seems to waste opportunities to reflect on the personal information shared. Some posters seem to project their anger with an estranged parent or child onto others posting here.

hugshelp you have been through such a lot.

I know I wouldn't turn my back on my mother if she ends up vulnerable and alone but I sincerely hope more for her sake than mine, that she doesn't

I'm sure he'll be relieved to hear that

Smileless2012

That's a good analogy DiamondLily.

I no longer wish to hit him with my cricket bat....?

That's a good analogy DiamondLily.

I think angst with childhood is a bit like the end of a bad marriage.

You have to let go of the anger, bitterness and resentment to really thrive.

I was furious when I first left my first marriage, after 30 years - full of determination to get my own back.

But, I realised that the only one getting stressed was me, so I put the whole thing down to experience and accepting that I probably was some of the problem as well.

It worked for me. ?

You've experienced the pain of estrangement from both sides hugshelp and I'm in awe and admiration of how you've come to terms with it with such a level of acceptance and equanimity and with no bitterness or rancour.

Hugshelp. Thank you for sharing your story. I am sure it will give comfort to many. It is a testament that it is possible to live a full and happy life, whichever side of the estrangement fence we are on.

Letting go of the pain, resentment, anger and not bearing grudges are I think the key. If we remain mired in misery then we can't move forward. We remained trapped in the past.

It's not easy to let go of the hurt but we cannot heal until we do.

"There are no "sides" in estrangement really" that's true Madgran and no, it is definitely not a "group" anyone wants to be a member of.

Thank you madgran - that is very well expressed too. I have always found your posts to be insightful and compassionate.

hugshelp thankyou for sharing that.

You have experienced estrangement in different ways, and your thoughtful and measured posts are a support to many who are estranged, whether instigated by them or by someone else to them. I have always admired your balanced and carefully but honestly expressed posts!

There are no "sides" in estrangement really, there are experiences and sadness, sometimes anger, sometimes wisdom, sometimes healing, sometimes acceptance. It is not a "group" that anyone would want to join!

I think what I have taken, for myself, from all that is that once I really worked through it all I had no more grudges against those who hurt me, saw them as the flawed people they were, and forgave them. That doesn't make me any kind of saint or superwoman, but it was when I lost the pain. For I learned I could take them or leave them, didn't need the estrangment nor to give them undue headspace, and could feel ok.
I regret neither the long estrangement from my father nor the bumpy relationships with others I kept contact with. I think the fact that Estrangers need these posts is testament to the fact it causes great pain whichever side you are on and I wish everyone the best resolution they can find for themselves.

Just want to say what a moving post hugs. You've seen what abuse and estrangement can do from both side .

I've been reading and mulling over whether to share my own situation as estranger. Truth is my parents are long dead and I haven't thought about it much in recent years so I've taken a little time remembering and thinking about it.

My mum had serious mental health problems to the extent she was regularly institutionalised and dangerous. I was taken away from her for a couple of years for my own safety. By then my family literally feared for my life and sent me to another relative. She also abused me sometimes, but less so.

I never estranged from mum but learned when to avoid her for long periods depending on how scary she was. I went through long spells of anger, mainly at other people for not protecting me better when they knew how ill she was, but sometimes at her too.
I felt guilt when I did keep my distance even though it was for my own safety, and I obviously had to keep my children safe, but I think the guilt was really a symptom of the fact I couldn't help being angry but felt bad about it. Eventually, I was able to split my anger at her illness away from my anger at her and continued with sporadic contact where I felt able to be supportive.

I was often angry at a sibling who learned to manipulate mum and would deliberately get me beaten. I am estranged from him but made no formal decision to do so - we just drifted apart and even as an adult if I disagreed with anything he said he would threaten to smash my windows in, slash my tyres etc. He never lost his anger. I have no guilt there.

I also drifted apart from the relative who looked after me for a while, but we are now very close. She had counselling before we talked at length. We now both know she was as much a victim of our upbringing as me.

My father was a drunk who turned a blind eye and occasionally lashed out. I put up with a lot from him but made the decision to estrange from him when he spoke about his grandchildren and made it clear the statement did not include my children and put the desire to enjoy his growly dogs above the wellbeing of my kids when we visited. I felt no guilt about that, but when he got old, his wife contacted me and said how much our estrangement hurt him. I visited him and saw him for the sad broken man he was. There was no joy in it for me but no real pain either. He'd never been a father. I didn't go to his funeral.

I never abused nor neglected the son who estranged me. But I often think I must have overcompensated for my upbringing and that might be the way I failed as a mother. He has accused me of things I absolutely know, and others know, are untrue, but in a very general way. It took years before he gave me a reason at all, and that reason has changed since he did. If anyone disagrees with his way of thinking he estranges them. So I feel guilt at being the estranged one as I don't really know why it has happened but still often think I must be to blame. Other times I remember I always did my absolute best and genuinely didn't do the things he suggests. I've asked him to tell me about any single incident that hurt him and tell me how I can make ammends. He never has.

My half-sister was abused and abandoned by her mother. She was permanently injured and spent many years in care. She estranged herself for some time but eventually made peace, saying that her mother was young and couldn't cope. She sat with her mother and cared for her while she was dying. A process that took a few days, was really difficult, and incidentally very messy. My sister says it comforts her to know she could forgive and didn't let her mum die alone.

riete those who estrange do it (by and large) because they think/hope they will feel better/happier by so doing. and those who are estranged (by and large) are not happy about it

I agree with those two statements riete. I believe that each can help the other to understand/ at least consider alternative perspectives to their own and thus hopefully gain insight into their own personal situation, ways forward in that situation or acceptance of a situation over time. Sometimes I see that happen on GN. Sometimes I see the opposite.

I agree with what you say about chat rooms DL which is why I wouldn't want to be on one. My experience of closed forums is the same as yours.

They're often too constrained with only like minded people sharing and miss out on the opportunity for broader and more diverse conversation.

So it's open forums for me. Hectoring and personal attacks are unpleasant but the more you use open forums, the thicker your skin gets .