Handling Duty/Obligation as the "estranger" ;

I do not expect expect my children to "take care of me later ". Is that the reason parents have children, l didn't know that.

Hilltop

I'm childfree, meaning I have chosen not to have children on purpose, its not due to infertility, etc.

The #1 thing people say to me when I say that is "who's going to take care of you when you get old?" and I'm constantly fascinated by this question.

I'm glad you don't expect your kids to take care of you, but sadly it's a really common response.

Despite the fact that I chose to estrange due to abuse, I still felt an immense guilt and obligation. And I didn't estranged because of my abuse, but abuse directed towards my children. It was still a very hard thing to do. I ended up seeking therapy in order to make the decision.

Society overall, in my experience in the US, tends to put mothers especially on pedestals and I have experienced judgement because of my decision. As part of my process, I learned to let go of what others think about me. That is what I made it through it.

After I spent almost 2 years healing, I directed my attention to understanding why she is the way she is. It actually allowed me to be able to reconnect when she got sick and my dad died. Maybe forgive? Not sure on that.

Also, salted caramel ice cream.

I estranged my DB, SIL, and my DF over twenty years ago when my Mum died. The three of them treated her abominably both in life and death, they live by a completely different moral code. I didn't want any of them to have any contact or influence over my husband and I, and especially not my children.

I do have contact with my late Mum's sister, who is now 85. She maintains contact with them all, and often relays information to me, most of which I don't want to know.

My DF bought a house a few doors away from my DB a few years ago, and my SIL is now his carer. She is a completely self interested, gold digging, unethical woman.

When my husband died in 2016 my DF and I started exchanging birthday/Christmas cards, but it's not been consistent on his side since he moved. Last Christmas he wrote and asked me to write to him a few times a year. I have written recently without a reply, and suspect both my DB and SIL are intercepting my letters and destroying them. It's obvious to me they are just waiting to inherit his money.

I don't feel any guilt about any of them, and I'm not travelling 350 miles to see my DF as they will undoubtedly be there 'supervising'. My DF doesn't love me, it's a sad fact to face, he always favoured my DB. He chose to live near them to be cared for, and I just feel pity for him. He had a dreadful childhood with cold, disinterested parents, and never learnt what love is. My kids love me, and I love them, and would do anything for them. He never had that experience.

When it first became abundantly clear to me that I wasn't loved... I asked for space. I pretty much had a nervous breakdown.

I was googling things like "why doesn't my mother love me" and just not putting the pieces together.

It was a Facebook post about gaslighting that I just read out of boredom having no clue what it was that led me to googling "gaslighting mother" and having my eyes opened.

I immediately went to the doctor to ask for serious mental health help.

I was going through all these emotions, trying to explain to my mother, who wouldn't give me any space, that she was hurting me so much and I needed it to stop. She, in the face of my tears, was smirking and laughing and didn't care at all.

I estranged on advice from a therapist who told me that I wasn't going crazy, my family was the problem. I then went into counselling and it was the best thing I could have done.

All the while I was going through all this hurt and pain and anger...the guilt.... ran through everything.

Some people don't get it and say invalidating things like " you only have one mother" and " how will you feel when she dies" and "you are teaching your children to estrange you".

Guilt was the killer. Anyone placing guilt on me was quickly and immediately able to bring out my hurt inner child.

Especially when unknown to me, I was suffering with hyperthyroidism caused by graves and my hormones were in such a state that I regressed and undid so much of the progress I had made by answering messages from my mother and others.

Generally I'm a nice person and wouldn't ever cause any harm to anyone so the thought that I may cause pain to my family was awful to live with.

Yet I couldn't go back when I made that decision and everything that was said to me by my family reinforced it. Especially when it was made clear that even if I did go back, they may never forgive me for my horrific act of cruelty in estranging, as they put it.

It was a whole body response, the mere thought of going back made me physically ill.

Yet, there are things I accept. I know that if my mother ends up alone and in need of help, I probably won't be able to say no.

Is that guilt?

Because actually I feel I am past guilt now, the angry hurt child is at peace.

Just maybe one day I can show the kindness to my mother in her vulnerability that she could not show to her vulnerable minor child, let alone the adult I became.... despite her.

Oh and mint chocolate chip lol

imaround, I understand exactly what you mean. I'm also in the U.S. and honestly, it seems like there's no winning. we're supposed to choose our best lives and be happy...but only if that is the life your parents agree is best and will make them happy.

kudos to you for being able to re-establish a connection with your mother though, even if it's not quite forgiveness. i hope that you can maintain boundaries to protect yourself if necessary. also thanks for sharing your fav ice cream flavor. i like salted caramel in small amounts. im pretty basic, my second fav flavor is vanilla

shandy, my grandmother had 10 children, my mother was in the middle, and I completely understand the dynamic you're describing as it applies to several of my own family members, including my brother.

its so great that you've been able to separate your dad's actions from your own self worth, as too many people blame themselves when they have unloving parents. ive seen a lot of parents favor one problematic child over their other children, and i've concluded that the parents are choosing the child that they see the most of themselves in, but what do I know. at this point, if my dad sent me a card, i'd burn it, so you are definitely a stronger/kinder person than I am .

violetsky,

i've also spent many years in therapy and i went low contact on the advice of my therapist, and eventually no contact was my own decision.

i know exactly what you mean when you describe the hurt, the pain, and the anger, and i absolutely agree that the guilt is the worst.

since my aunt could have abandoned me the way my father did, there has always been an extra layer of guilt since i'm not her child. so people constantly invalidated my feelings when i was a child, and told me to just be grateful i wasn't in a foster home.

when i was 13, my cousin (the one who says i have a duty to my aunt) invited my aunt to her house for the summer because she lived near the beach. my cousin paid for my aunt to fly to her house, but bought a bus ticket for me. so i, a 13 year old girl, spent 26 hours on a bus alone each way, across the united states....i could have been murdered and no one would have had any idea when/where. i'm not saying that it was my cousin's responsibility to pay for me to ride on a plane, but it was absolutely my aunt's responsibility to prevent a 13 year old child going on a cross country public bus ride alone. She left my brother alone at home (he was 21 though), so I got told "at least you got to go on the trip, i could have just left you at home with your brother".

So I got away and built my own life, but my aunt, my cousins and even my brother have tried to make me feel guilty for "turning my back on the family". My aunt has tons of problems and can't keep money longer than the time it takes to get to the nearest store, so I stopped sending money when she asked for it.

About 7 years ago, my cousin called and said I should send her $500 a month to help take care of my aunt because "she's your mother too and you would've been in foster care". I basically laughed in her face, and she hasn't brought it up again.

I deeply feel everything you wrote and I wish I didn't, but it makes me so glad that the angry hurt child is at peace. I love that description and am going to share it with my therapist next time. I'm not there yet, but maybe one day?

You rock

We were estranged from inlaws for about 10 years after the birth of my daughter.

A long boring story of entitlement and shitty behaviour.

Thankfully, after 10 years there was a lot of self reflection on both sides.
We are in the best position now.
DH didn't feel guilty I don't think, I didn't.
It was nice to have peace.

Maybe for some that is the reason they have children Hilltop, certainly not in our case or anyone we know.

Peace is priceless isn't it PoppyBlue. It sounds as if some of the issues you had were resolved. I had no contact with my in laws because of my m.i.l. for about 7 years but ended up with a mutually loving and respectful relationship.

She died last year and I still miss her.

I didn't have my children to be carers to me! ?

I'm independent, as is DH, and if we need extra help, we pay for it.

If we have hospital appointments we either drive or get taxis.

I'm determined never to burden my daughter with having to look after me. I did it for my parents for years, and it's draining. My son lives abroad, so it wouldn't arise.

I had children because I wanted them. No other reason.

MiaZadora81 I think it’s a little glib to post such an emotive thread and then expect us to put our preferred ice cream flavour.

“I have been estranged from my daughter and grandchildren for over 10 years, it breaks my heart and life feels meaningless.
However I’m partial to a mint choc chip ice cream”.

Same here Diamond Lily.

Our DS is in Aus. and as we're estranged from his brother, it isn't going to arise for us either DiamondLily and TBH I can't think of anything worse, for our DS or us.

Those in the US, I believe some states have filial responsibility laws. Have you considered this?

What are those Mandrake?

Smileless2012

What are those Mandrake?

A legal obligation on grown children to pay for the needs of an aging parent if they can't do so themselves. This can extend to bills, medical needs, care homes.

Thanks Mandrake, I bet that doesn't go down very well and must be difficult to enforce.

Oh, well, thankfully, we don't have that in the UK. Older people may have to sell their homes, but no one is legally responsible for their care financing.

I was also thinking DiamondLily that it's hard enough getting parents to financially support their children when the family breaks down.

As you say, the older generation is often faced with the prospect of selling their own homes.

My husband has said he will not pay a cent towards his parents elder costs while they own three properties. As far as he's concerned, they can sell two of the three first. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.

Mandrake

Smileless2012

What are those Mandrake?

A legal obligation on grown children to pay for the needs of an aging parent if they can't do so themselves. This can extend to bills, medical needs, care homes.

Thanks for the clarification, must confess I had no idea.

Would the same law apply to children who have lost their parents. Are extended families forced by law to assume all responsibility for the child.

DerbyshireLass

Mandrake

Smileless2012

What are those Mandrake?

A legal obligation on grown children to pay for the needs of an aging parent if they can't do so themselves. This can extend to bills, medical needs, care homes.

Thanks for the clarification, must confess I had no idea.

Would the same law apply to children who have lost their parents. Are extended families forced by law to assume all responsibility for the child.

I'm not a lawyer so have no idea. I suppose if no family takes responsibility for the child the state does via the foster care system?

Mandrake. Thanks. I was just curious. I wondered if it had any bearing on Mia's situation, whether her aunt had been forced by law to bring up Mia.

I am not familiar with the care system, either here in the U.K. or the US.

When I was 16 my father beat me up. The doctor told me I could prosecute him but because. I was still a minor I risked being taken into care. I decided not to, decided it wasn't worth the risk.

I don't think you could compel someone to take on a child. It can't be in the best interests of the child to have a resentful caregiver.

I'm sorry you had that experience with your father, DSL. I could completely understand if you had nothing to do with him after that.