Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

In any case, just as the victims of Hitler were dehumanised, during covid many people were also dehumanised and judged harshly for having the jabs and wearing masks. They called us Trans human. That was the start.

So they dehumanised us who are vaccinated as "Transhuman" and then the cruelty stepped up. My son was a part of this, I'm sad to say.

His cruelty is the reason we did not reply to his last barrage of cruel insults and accusations. I have seven voice messages full, along with much reading matter I was sent about how evil I am. My husband also has some horrible messages. Thanks to whoever else he has been paying attention to, he does not regard us as human or deserving of the most basic human courtesy or empathy.

Unless or until there is a significant change of heart, I don't see any point in trying to be in touch, anymore. Over the years he would stop speaking to us for weeks and months at a time. I have never been very good at letting anyone have the last word, but this time it was my final word when I said he will have a lot of time to think about this.

He argued because he did not understand what I was saying. But he will, in time.

I'm not surprised that no one has heard of them. I have only heard of them because I began digging online when I saw who my son was talking to after he began treating us even worse. At the time he was into the QAnon stuff and I saw that one of these people was telling him to post fake information. He was getting his posts removed because they were obviously fake, yet he couldn't see it and kept posting more. He got several bans on several social media sites because of this.

At the same time he was trying to force his beliefs on us and getting irate because we didn't "see". When he started to believe something I had done (which he says he saw on the shaman trip) he started to accuse me of being a narcissist and if I denied his accusations he got more and more angry saying we were gas lighting him. He branded us as evil and became more and more cruel as he no doubt felt he was doing the right thing to such "evil people" as us.

I'm so sorry Nanalouise , that's so difficult. We do all we can to bring them up well , but friends and or relationships can have such an influence on young minds, as you say too Smileless. So sorry for your son taking on your Daughter in law's pain. I remember you said she'd had a traumatic childhood and that's so sad that he's projecting that.

As someone a few days ago said on here though, her much loved child accuses her of abuse, while the kids she looks after who have been through actual abuse idolise their parents. It's all madness.

That's awful Onward, I've never heard of this before.

These guys used the slight crack to make a massive split this is what our ES's wife did. No idea what the slight crack may have been and if there was one, why he didn't talk to us about it because up to the time she had their first child, he'd always done so.

Things we do know that were 'issues' were projections of her childhood, not his.

Like you, we hope one day he'll see how she's separated him ^from his (imperfect but loving) family.

I think his wife must have hated our family Nanalouise, despite her earlier claims of how much she loved us, even on one occasion saying she wished I'd been her mum!!!

My daughter changed when she started college she’d met a girl who was in care and seemed to hate that daughter had a family and I’m sure while taking drugs mainly weed she was influenced by this girl to leave home and live on the streets

Yoginimeisje

Nanalouise I second Onwards reply to you.

I agree re drug taking being a big factor, what is 'shaman guided drug trips' ?

He got involved with this group online called Blissful visions dot com or something, run by a man called Rev Dennis Shipman. From there he got involved in all sorts of things, including the belief that he had to "ascend". They arranged Shamans (spirit guides) to "help" him interpret the trips he went on by taking the drug DMT.

I have been very unhappy about this for some time because the shaman gave him false messages about us so he started limiting the time he spent with us. He became really accusatory about things that had not happened and when we defended ourselves he said we were gaslighting him.

Previous to him getting involved with these guys he has taken other drugs, experienced really bad MH and I believe hes vulnerable. Also, I've been concerned for my GC.

I didn't want to write openly about this before because its quite outing, but after the first Christmas and New year with no contact, I feel I have nothing to lose. It's scary to think that there are people out there who friend your kids on social media and will take them so far from the people who really love them by using any means to tell them they are evil and fake.

I hope by writing this to educate and blow away any myth about estrangement. There are pure and simply people who benefit financially from an estrangement because the shaman trips, the hallucinogenic drugs that they say you need, the special things on their website....

I'm sure many people estrange from their family because of family problems. Like all families, we'd had some difficulty, mainly my son's MH and section which he resented, but which was entirely necessary at the time. These guys used the slight crack to make a massive split.

I hope one day he will see they lied to him to separate him from his (imperfect but loving) family. I hope it doesn't happen to anyone else

To all the people who judge estrangement, think on.

Awful to hear how your mum's GGC were playing just next door in the garden, yet she wasn't allowed to see or be with them, just cruel, don't know how anyone could do such a thing. Same for you & Mr.S I know Smiles.

My son explained about the 'shaman trip', bad enough if it's all about nice things but when it's dark, why do they do it!

Nanalouise I second Onwards reply to you.

I agree re drug taking being a big factor, what is 'shaman guided drug trips' ?

How lovely Smiles the Walrus! Picture please if you can. Thought I was doing well with my 3 squirrels

We had a nice NYE gathering, quiet as we were all recovering from the flu, but very pleasant, alcohol-free evening. Hope you all enjoyed yours.

Still not feeling 100% though.

Just turning onto page 8.......

'Happy New Year' everyone. I hope you all had a pleasant evening to see out 2022. We had a lovely meal out and then listened to music when we got home.

All the decs are packed away so the house looks a little bare but it's good to get back to normal again.

Your son hasn't said he never wants to see you again Onward so maybe there is a possibility that at some point he'll get in touch but as you say, if he does it must be without the abuse. Only he will know if he's ever ready to accept responsibility for what he's said and done, seek help for his problems and then come back to you.

The first time you break the cycle and don't send a card at Christmas or for their birthday is the hardest, so I hope you're OK with that decision.

It's lovely to hear from you Nannalouise and great news about your DH's continued recovery.

I'm sorry that your mum's been unwell and that your D's been cashing the cheques you've been sending, despite having nothing to do with you. The hypocrisy is astounding isn't it. Want nothing to do with you but your money's OK.

There was a time, early on in our estrangement that we wondered if either of us were seriously ill if our ES might get in touch. Learning that your D hasn't been in contact despite knowing that her dad has cancer is hard to believe but you're not the first this has happened too.

Your childhood sounds pretty much like mine, with your mum's mental health issues and agoraphobia, not easy is it. It saddens me that the last years of my mum's life to me, were wasted.

It can't have helped that she never got to see her GGC but would hear them playing out in next doors garden as they are friends of our ES and his wife; at least they there then. I still find it hard to believe that he could be so cruel to his own GM, who would see the children going past her living room window on a regular basis.

Good New Year's resolution Spring.

I hope that the authorities take note of the concerns you've raised DL and she's given all the support and help she needs, for the sake of the baby as much as anything else.

What a terrible worry it must be for you all.

Hope you enjoyed walkies with little Joey Yogin.

Looking forward to our roast beef dinner this evening, will make a change from turkey which we enjoyed but weren't sorry when it had all been eaten.

Happy New Year to you all.

Thank you for your comments onwardsand upwards I guess I have to respect and except her decision. we feel so sorry for our granddaughter who has no family in her life we very close to until she was 18 months so she’s probably forgotten us now. If she did come back into our lives which I very much doubt now as she knows her dad has cancer and doesn’t care I would be very wary how can you trust their intentions after such a long time?

HAPPY NEW YEAR to all on here. May 2023 be a much better year for all xxx

Too many post to read with my little dog looking at me saying walkies!, so I'll read later.

@Whiff

thanks for explaining the email
My son's email has a box which says this message sent in confidencial mode. And a box at the end has a padlock with a clock face and says content expires 3 May 2025 you do not have the option to forward,copy, print or download this email.

The thing is, you did manage to copy it? Also I didn't know of a way to make emails destruct, but I found there is a way: www.cnbc.com/2018/08/20/how-to-send-self-destructing-email-gmail-confidential-mode.html

I guess he didnt want his words to be used against him at a later date. I would have photographed the screen if it wasnt possible to screen grab it. So nasty! Good to make sue your solicitor knows what he did.

Thanks for your comments, and, yes, it has been, frankly, way outside my understanding.

I mean, I'm a London girl, and I've worked in jobs where I've seen the worst of human behaviour, and been in some dodgy company over the years, but she still makes my jaw drop with some of the stuff she's done to us over the last couple of months.

During one tirade of hers she was screaming at me that she'd been therapy and counselling for 14 years (since she was 8). I told her that whoever had paid for it to ask for their bleeding money back, as it obviously hadn't worked.🙄

We did try with her. DD and I gave her a gender reveal thing. None of her side wanted to know, so we had to invite friends and relatives of ours, but that descended into uproar. Embarrassing. The child will be a girl.

I have written to the hospital where she is due to give birth, to flag up my concerns about the welfare of the child. Not for spite - genuine concern.

Despite her constant hounding of us, we are all banned from ever seeing this child, by her, and although I can't stop that, I still think it's right to express my concerns.

I think the police had already expressed their concerns to social services about her false allegations about all of us, and multiple hoax 999 calls, so hopefully, they will watch what happens with her.

Anyway, we can only press on. Hope 2023 goes well for all of us. 😉

Happy New Year Everyone.

🥂. Here's to better times ahead. 💕.

Happy New Year everyone!

Thanks Madgran It must be nice to feel confident about having a special tactic. I don't feel I have, except to refuse to engage with him when he is abusive

Refusing to engage in those circumstances seems sensible Onward. I'm not sure anyone is entirely confident in their tactics really, everyone just does their best to work through their own situation as best they can.

Here comes 2023 ...and I always say "onwards and upwards" for the New Year as my mum always said it ...so your name is singularly appropriate!!🤣

Happy new year to you all from me too. My resolution is to make 2023 the year I give less time to thinking about the estrangement, which I can’t change. We will never really fathom what makes our EC act as they do. We have a responsibility though to live the best life we can - for the sake of those who do love us, as much as for ourselves. Take care everyone.

Just popped on to wish you all a happy new and hope 2023 is a better year for everyone.

Just had a quick read as I am tired .

My son's email has a box which says this message sent in confidencial mode. And a box at the end has a padlock with a clock face and says content expires 3 May 2025 you do not have the option to forward,copy, print or download this email.

My mother in law was 80 when my husband died she had a pace maker , arthritis and gout. She hadn't got dementia or Alzheimer's. Her heart was failing which is what killed her when she was 91. She was very active until she was 88 then the arthritis and gout made it harder to get about.

Sweet dreams everyone.

Nanalouise

Happy new year to you all! I haven’t wrote anything for a while my husbands cancer and treatment has been on going but he’s getting better and hopes to return to work next year.
We are still firmly estranged from our daughter she still hates us and tells anyone that we are abusers
My mum has had a few strokes this year and decided to give me daughters address which she’s withheld for the past couple of years I’ve taken granddaughter birthday presents and posted a couple of cheques for my daughter ( she’s never answered the door to me ) it does make me laugh that she’ll bank the cheques but wants nothing to do with us
Very hypocritical!
I’ve been reading the last few pages of this thread with interest they definitely resonate with me and my situation I didn’t have a great childhood as my mums mental health hasn’t been good she’s tried to take her life a few times and has Agoraphobia so I’ve tried to be better taking an interest in my children and supporting them in what they want to do. I work with 3 young people who have all been brought up in care and have told me their terrible stories about their mums but they all say they love them to pieces you can’t believe it can you?

Nanalouise, I'm so sorry about your husband's cancer. Really glad that he's doing better and hoping to go back to work next year. Things have been really hard for you with your Mum having strokes too.

Your daughter has a cheek banking the cheques, without a thankyou or a how are you. So sad she won't answer the door to you. After we turned up with gifts last Christmas, I was told not to go round to ES's door without arranging it first beforehand- we did get invited at Easter but never again.

So sorry about your childhood and your Mum trying to take her life and having Agoraphobia. All very hard!

I always took an interest in my kids and supported them, but apparently I am an abusive narcissist who does everything wrong!!! I've worked with kids in the past too, some very traumatic cases and everyone who knows me knows me as someone who's been a positive influence in their kids life. Yet, my own kid hates me. I blame the drugs though. The other thing is, walking on eggshells I think I've been "too nice".

Truly abusive parents sometimes are fortunate enough to have kids who still love them, yet loving parents sometimes have abusive kids who hate them. I can believe it, but only because it's my reality.

My son started going on shaman guided drug trips and he swore that he had "seen" me doing something really bad. He has never said what it was, but he has gotten more paranoid and hateful since then.

Thanks Madgran It must be nice to feel confident about having a special tactic. I don't feel I have, except to refuse to engage with him when he is abusive.

Just a quick visit to wish you all a Happy New year.
Will catch up soon. x

Onward in the end your velvet rope is whatever works for you to cope with the situation as best you can and what works for you at any given time.

For DSL who had some contact it was a way of protecting herself and was just a name she gave the tactic when she talked about it on here.

Happy new year to you all! I haven’t wrote anything for a while my husbands cancer and treatment has been on going but he’s getting better and hopes to return to work next year.
We are still firmly estranged from our daughter she still hates us and tells anyone that we are abusers
My mum has had a few strokes this year and decided to give me daughters address which she’s withheld for the past couple of years I’ve taken granddaughter birthday presents and posted a couple of cheques for my daughter ( she’s never answered the door to me ) it does make me laugh that she’ll bank the cheques but wants nothing to do with us
Very hypocritical!
I’ve been reading the last few pages of this thread with interest they definitely resonate with me and my situation I didn’t have a great childhood as my mums mental health hasn’t been good she’s tried to take her life a few times and has Agoraphobia so I’ve tried to be better taking an interest in my children and supporting them in what they want to do. I work with 3 young people who have all been brought up in care and have told me their terrible stories about their mums but they all say they love them to pieces you can’t believe it can you?

Thanks Madgran it makes some sense, but I am not sure whether you are supposed to have some contact with them to have velvet rope?

For instance, we did not send Christmas cards or make an attempt at contact this year for the first time ever. The last thing that was said was my son abusing me/us. The door is open if anything nice or kind is said or done- but we haven't actually said so. I don't know if we have velvet rope or not. He didn't say he never wanted to hear from us again. My impression is that he wanted to cause as much pain as possible, actually, but we are not giving him any energy until he gives us what we want, which is good energy.

Unfortunately I think most of his paranoia and MH problems have stemmed from his drug use in the last ten years, though there are MH problems in the family. We did use to have a good relationship when he was younger.

Could anyone explain what the Velvet Rope is, please? I may have missed that and it might be helpful.

Onward I tried to explain/describe it in my post up thread at 7.46 this morning. It's a strategy that might be useful for those who fear estrangement but have some level of contact.

Enjoy your meal Smileless. So glad you are now well enough to go.

Yes, a Happy New Year to everyone here. 🥂 I'm ready to let 2022 go, for sure. May 2023 be a year of good things.