Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life.

The perfect parent has not yet been born.

Nor has the perfect adult child been born.

Some are better than others, but we are all flawed individuals really.

Most parents do their best, but it seems some ACs expected perfection, and blame them for every misfortune they ever suffered.

My mother was extremely difficult, very emotionally lacking, but I learned to deal with her, and got on with adult life - no dramas.

She was a lovely Nan though, so perhaps, like wine, she just improved with age.😉

Spring I didn't think you meant I am a bad parent. I don't take things to heart unless someone personally attacks me.

All on this thread keep me going daily because I know I am not alone..

And Whiff, you keep me inspired by the full life you lead. I haven’t moved (yet) but joined a new group where people don’t know my EC and it really is freeing to just be there with new friends.

DL - that is great!! Hope the voluntary role works out.
Whiff - sorry I didn’t mean to imply we all are/were terrible parents. I know for me in the initial shock and trauma I beat myself up over whether I’d been too hard/lax with our EC growing up. Did arguments we’d had affect them more deeply than I realised etc etc… And of course in those early days I totally blamed myself. Because if your child walks away……
However, just as some parents genuinely seem not to care/are abusive to their children, it’s taken me a long time to realise the same can be true of some adult children too.

DiamondLily when your husband died you not only lose half of yourself. But your best friend, lover,handyman etc. The only person in the whole world who knew the real you.

Unfortunately after the funeral you find out who your real friends and relatives are. But I found so many scattered to the wind all my husband's family who I hated anyway. Only had his mom but if I hadn't gone to see her every week she wouldn't have bothered. But always wanted me to go too hospital appointments and had me down as next of kin.

I existed in my old house. But for me moving I found me again and now live my life to the full. I wanted to join a sit fit class and craft group. And did it . My craft group are real friends we all help eachother. In another life none of us would have met it's the love of craft that brought us together.

My friend in Hitchin is still married but does the administration at the local library as a volunteer and loves it.

Keeping your mind and body active helps you cope. And meeting new people they get to know you without your labels and I found it very freeing.

Grief will never leave you and as the years go by it will get worse. But you learn to cope. But your husband would be very proud of you and wouldn't want you to stop living your life to the full. Those of us who have lost our other halves are lucky to have been so loved and love in return. 🌹

Sorry to read about the suffering ACs are causing some of you - I'm surrounded by estrangement and tantrums, but, thankfully, none of them are from my kids.

As for me, well, on Monday my stress finally erupted, although I think it had been building up for a while. I was just poleaxed with grief.

Tuesday morning was the same. I was stress vomiting and my breathing was really getting affected by it. My daughter phoned, realised the situation and came around. With a bottle of wine...🙂

I think she gave me the kick up the bum I needed - she's very forthright, and pointed out that I cannot just sit here, fretting, wanting to be with DH, which is true.

Some friends have been great, but some have (frankly) been a let down, but I cannot rely on others, I never have, and I don't want to start now.

We agreed counselling would be hopeless, and she knows that I don't like the thought of tablets, although my GP is hopeless anyway.

So, she said that although I'm not physically fit, I am still mentally sharp, and need to utilise that. Through a lot of various jobs, especially in public services, disability stuff, caring for DH etc I do have varied skills.

We both know that any sort of knitting, crafting, baking or anything like that would be a non starter - I'm hopeless lol 🥴

So, she thought of voluntary work - nothing physical, but many places are yelling out for voluntary administration workers. And, it would give me some purpose to life, along with meeting other people as "me" - not just DL without DH.

Anyway, I applied to two local hospitals (jeez, what a palaver, they operate the same as proper job applications, one had 100 psychological questions to be assessed by their computer - happily the computer seems to think I'm sane and balanced lol), and a local food bank.

It had been a long time since applying for a job, but I thought it was worth a shot.

To my surprise all 3 got back to me yesterday and offered me interviews in August.

Just got to get my daughter to set up these online meeting things.

I know I have to change my mindset, but it's so hard - but, as DD pointed out, I've fought battles before, and I've won through - she's got faith anyway!

All have a nice day x💐

Hilltop I had a thought like you last year there was a car just like my son drove parked not far from my home. And thought it might be him of course it wasn't. And a few weeks ago I saw an Iceland lorry and wondered if my son was driving it. Then realised it was just a lorry not HGV one. Madness.

Spring I have never thought I was a terrible parent as I know I am not. Up until my son's email he had always said he loved me and how proud he was of me as neither of the children thought I would cope like I have after their dad died.

Yes as a parent I have made mistakes and so did my husband when he was alive. But then my own parents did and most definitely my husband's horrible parents .

But I could have written a longer email to my son pointing out all his and my daughter in law's failings as parents. At least neither of our children got physically hurt through our negligence . They can't say the same. As I know for a fact of 2 incidents .

It will be 8 years since his mother in law moved it. It was only supposed to be a temporary arrangement. I am dependant on no one for the roof over my head or food on my plate and yet I am the bad parent.

If my son wants back into my life he knows where I live and he will never get an apology from me. As he broke the family not me. And he would have a lot of questions to answer . He accused me of things that never happened plus assumed I acted in a certain way but he doesn't know what I did to try and help them. He accused me of hiding things about his dad's cancer. Of course I did my husband never wanted either of our children to know things he went through. I promised him they never would. I did ask my daughter when the email came 3 years ago if she wanted to know about her dad and she said no as she knew we where protecting them . Also it was her dad's and mine private business.

My brother said yesterday he thinks the break up came because my daughter in law was jealous that for the first 7 months I moved to live closer to them my son and his 2 eldest came to see me every week. And she was jealous of the fact my grandsons loved coming to see me and loved me. My son told me as soon as they realised were they where going they both got excited.

Both our children where brought up the same. How they act as adults is up to them. I had a kind and loving son for 32 years so I must have done things right. My husband died in 2004 and did everything I could to make life easier for them not with money but unconditional love and support that both my husband and I gave them.

I will never understand why my son gave me a lovely birthday knowing full well he was hoping to break me 4 days later with his email and 3 months later when all the birthday cards and babies birth presents where crushed all unopened and his vile letter.

But what really gets to me he knew there was a problem with my heart and was waiting to have a bubble echo cardiogram when he sent everything back . If he had opened his birthday card he would have found out I have a hole in my heart. Which not only makes my son cruel, cowardly but callous as well.

When I text him to tell him I was sending a letter last year as I finally had a diagnosis for what has been wrong with me my whole life . He didn't even send a text saying at least you know mom. But at least he didn't send the letter back unopened.

I have given him 3 years . But I am done. He isn't hurting only me. But no more. I am 65 now and because of my disability which I was born my mobility has gotten worse in the last year. But have suffered pain all my life in my legs . Which settled into my left arm and leg when the limb jerks started in 1988 he was 6 months and our daughter 4. Neither of the children got hurt through my disability. My right side started to get painful off and on 6-7 years ago but that comes and goes the left side only relief I get is when asleep and my son knows all this.

Luckily I have a wonderful daughter and her family. Who love and care for me. So I know I am not a bad parent. But I have a bad son and daughter in law and never thought I would ever say that. But realised recently I have .

Justbecause - do stay in touch on here. I can't tell you enough how helpful I've found this thread and the good folk on it. And still do!

Had to laugh about your glasses Smileless! I once found the butter in the microwave

Justbecause - every one of us has agonised over what terrible parents we must have been, and regretted so many incidents where we feel we could have/should have managed things better. To begin with these are so raw, and of course we can't go back and rerun them. But....speaking for myself, I know I have tried to apologise, I know I love my EC with all my heart and have told them so on numerous occasions. I know although I got a lot wrong, I also got some things right. And I also know that it is because we love them and are at our core loving parents, that this is why it hurts so much. If you were truly the terrible person you feel you are, it wouldn't hurt. I'm afraid we can't change how others act towards us. Casting you off is cruel, and the prospect of not being at your daughter's wedding will be really hard. I hope you can find it in your heart to do something calming on that day, and drink a toast to the couple sincerely wishing them the very best. Estrangement destroys relationships. At the start it nearly destroys us too as we try to understand what's going on. But you will be able to eventually reconcile yourself to what has happened, and move forwards hopefully a wiser and more compassionate person because you have known the absolute depths of pain. It's a slow process - hour by hour, day by day, but you will find it hurts less and less. And I'm sorry but there does come a time when you have to accept what is - it took me a few years to stop sending birthday cards and gifts. Then one day I realised our EC would not be returning. There is a hole in our family, and events can still trigger pain, but we try to live a full life and enjoy and appreciate what we have. But I truly feel for you because at the start it is just so very hard and painful, and we feel like total failures. A mental health specialist friend said to me that good homes can produce troubled young people, and unstable homes can produce very stable mature young adults. Parenting is part of this, but only a small part - many other factors are at play too. Hope this helps!

Justbecausè, I'm so sorry that this has happened to you too. It was four years ago that it happened to me and it made me feel sick and awful. I went out to catch the bus but felt so bad l went back home and lay down.

I didn't see it coming at all, it was a complete surprise. But now l am resigned to what the situation is, that my son is not who l thought he was . But, l must admit, that whenever a car slows down as it approaches my house, for a brief moment, l stupidly wonder if it's him coming., although l know really it's probably never going to happen. ( reading that bit again before posting has made me cry, so I'm not so over it as l thought I was)

As Smileless says, there is nothing you can do and it will take time till you feel better. It doesn't go away but you will get to cope with it and enjoy stuff again, although at the moment you don't feel that, I'm sure. Keep posting as people on here are understanding.
Best wishes to all on this thread that none of us wanted or imagined, in earlier life, we would ever be on.

Justbecause you aren't a terrible mother. You didn't turn your back on your child they did that. It's their fault not yours. My son called me vindictive and manipulative 2 things I have never been. It's my son and daughter in law who have been vindictive and manipulative. I have do not know what I have supposed to have done. But he was cruel and cowardly the way he dumped me. He should have faced me like a man.

But our children love playing the victims . When in fact we are the victims. But then it would make them wrong and that's not the story they want people to know.

You are not a bad parent you give unconditional love and support. But that's not good enough for our estranged children. But one day the tables will turn and their own children will point out to them all the things that they do wrong.

No such thing as a perfect partner and definitely no such thing as a perfect child.

You will get through this just keep posing here and get your feelings out.

Of course we don't mind you reaching out Justbecause, that's what this thread and we are here for .

I found mornings were the worse. Another day of pain and grief to struggle through when all I wanted to do was sleep and there was a time when I'd pray that I wouldn't wake up in the morning because as you say, it's absolutely awful.

Wanting to get through this will help you.

Is it really all your fault? Have there been incidents in the past where you went wrong? Have you apologised? You don't have to answer of course but it may help you to ask yourself questions and give yourself honest answers.

You are clearly distraught which to me suggests that yes, mistakes have been made because who can honestly say they haven't made any, and apologies given.

There's nothing more you can do. You cannot make anyone accept an apology or make anyone love you enough to try to forgive, and to want to work with you to repair the relationship.

It's impossible to believe that this could be the case with your own child isn't it? The hardest thing I think for many is knowing that there's nothing you can do and accepting that the relationship is for now, over.

Estrangement is called a living bereavement because we grieve for the child lost who still lives. We find ourselves going through the grieving process, and if you've ever had someone in your life who you loved very much who has died, you will see that grieving for the child who estranges you is the same.

It takes time to work through it and I think is something that to some extent we'll be doing for the rest of our lives.

Try to be patient with yourself because as awful as this is, what you're experiencing is perfectly natural which is a strange thing to say because there's nothing natural about estrangement.

Keep reaching out x.

Good Morning all,

I hope you don’t mind me reaching out.

I’m really really struggling in the mornings. Waking up with dread, feeling sick, anxiety, ruminating what a terrible Mother I was, all my fault! What can I do? It’s absolutely awful.

I just want to get through this.

So so sad xxx

Good to know you arrived safely Whiff, are having a good time and are being spoilt.

We bit the bullet so to speak when we had the decking on our roof terrace replaced and the hopper re positioned, at a cost of more than £4500. We'd had water ingress due to other reasons, but this was by far the worse.

When the old decking was removed, two small cuts were found in the rubber roofing underneath and an embedded nail. It can be better in the long run to for a total replacement, but of course that depends on whether or not you can afford it.

The worse thing that can happen to you in a war isn't being killed - it's losing your humanity. I think the same is true with estrangement. That's very powerful Spring. As you say when our compassion is lost, so is our humanity.

There is a legacy of destruction when there's estrangement and not just for those who are estranged. Sometimes EAC seem to struggle to live with the decision they made and who knows whether heaven forbid, their children will do the same to them, when they look back at their childhood and their parents' best wasn't good enough.

Mr. S. and I spent 20 minutes this morning looking for my reading glasses. They were in a bright pink case so you wouldn't think they'd be hard to find would you. I knew I'd left them with my chromebook before going to bed, but they weren't there.

I found them after we'd hunted high and low, looking in places I knew they couldn't be, before lifting the lid off the large 'tomato' casserole dish in the middle of the table, and there they were.

No idea why, but I put them in there first thing when looking for a replacement battery. We'd even looked in the fridge, freezer, microwave and dishwasher before I found them!!!

Glad you are having a lovely time with your brother and sister in law Whiff!

Justbecause I’m so sorry to hear this. Some great comments have already been posted, and we all feel your pain. I’m just so sorry the current ‘trend’ is to walk away rather than manage relationships. And that there seems to be a ‘badge of honour’ in doing this. There is a saying that says the worst thing that can happen to you in a war isn’t being killed - it’s losing your humanity. I think the same is true with estrangement. When we become hard and cruel to other humans, we lose not only our compassion but our humanity too. Is the problem the perfect family images we see in the media? If so, of course none of us will ever match up. We’re on a hiding to nothing. The sooner everyone realises all families are flawed and that we just need to manage them as best we can, the better and healthier society will be. Makes me wonder what legacy of destruction estrangement is leaving on countless lives and society as a whole.

Hugs sorry about the water problem. My brother and sister in law had to have a new roof on their old house. As it was easier and cheaper than patching it up.

DiamondLily unfortunately the grief for your husband will not fade or lessen over the coming years . You lost half of yourself and if like me I haven't been whole for 19 years. You just learnt to cope. But we are lucky to have been so loved and love in return. The last thing you need is all this drama caused by Miss D. But you must let yourself grieve don't do what I did and think I had to be brave and hide my grief from others. I know you are trying to help your daughter cope with all this but unfortunately if you don't let yourself grieve and put yourself first it's going to hurt yourself more. I would hate for you to feel how I did. Trouble is no matter how old our children are when their dad dies we still think we have to protect them. When in fact we need to protect ourselves. But thats what being a parent is giving our children unconditional love and putting them first.

Having a wonderful time with my brother and gang. They are having new kitchen so went to help pick out tiles yesterday. Having a relaxing time being spoilt. Pity it keeps raining so heavily. But just being with them is wonderful.

Take care all. 🤗

That spinning Aldi wheel deleted my post again.

Spring what a horrible conversation to hear. When did toxic become applied to parents . To me toxic applies to chemicals not people. How would our children like to be called toxic 🤔. Or do our children think they can spray bleach on us and can be flushed away . I hate all the miss use of words. Trouble is our children make up reasons to dump us but we are not given the chance to defend ourselves. I gave my son one last chance a few weeks ago but after his text. I am done. 3 years I have been waiting for him to act like the kind loving son I knew. 3 years of hurting but no more. The son I knew has died I have no idea who he is. But I am no longer the mom he knew . I think by his words and deeds and that of my daughter in law they thought they could break me. What fools they are. My husband dieing broke me and I lost half of myself and haven't been whole since. But I have learnt to cope but even know the grief for him can overwhelm me out of the blue.

But I am and have always been a fighter. Had to be I have been in pain with my legs as long as I can remember and fallen. Things got worse when I was 29 and the limb jerks started and the increase pain. But my husband was brilliant his attitude was we change our life to suit you and be a normal family. And he kept his word to his last breath.

My son and daughter in law knows what a vile horrible mother,mother in law and grandmother is they knew my mother in-law . My son saw how she treated her own son and me know he is treating me exactly they same way. But the difference is my husband's didn't like his parents but he loved them so would never give up on them. And because of my love for my husband I never gave up on his mom and she out lived him by 11 years. I couldn't abandon her she was family and without her I wouldn't have had my husband and children.

What our children have done is cruel and cowardly. But they can never say that of us. They decided to dispense of us. Where as I for one put up with crap from them for years all because I didn't see them very often and just happy to spend time with them. Plus I had both parents and mother in law to look after which cost me healthwise. But you have to do what you feel is right . I was brought up with a strong sense of family that included great aunts and uncles etc. My children where brought up the same. But it seems family is a dirty word to some.

I am lucky to have my daughter and family. My son in law told me he knew something was wrong for years but didn't want to say anything to me and hurt me. That's love and caring.

Justbecause I am so sorry you won't see your daughter get married. Be interesting to see how she explains your absence to the other guests. What lies she will make up. My mother in law refused to go to either of her grandchildren s wedding . No excuse when they invited her she just said no. But at her funeral there was a photo of her at her nephews wedding which she attended years after my children's. And yet my mom wild horses wouldn't have kept her away. She danced and sang at both their weddings. I have a beautiful photo of my mom and son dancing at my daughter's wedding and they are laughing. But I can't look at it. Mom got to see and hold her first great grandson. My son had put photos on their wall of her holding him I hope they didn't take them down when he dumped me .

I agree hugshelp and the cut them out, they're never going to change 'solution' leaves no room to even try to find other ways of coping like for example reducing the amount of contact to see if that helps.

In today's society where so many things are disposable, relationships appear to be becoming disposable too .

That's so sad spring20 but it seems to be the rhetoric of the day. I find the whole idea that so many people are 'toxic' unconvincing. Granted, we've all met the odd person who causes so much misery you have to avoid them, but the term is bandied about so often, with the accompanying advice to cut them out of your life, that I can't help thinking that being simply human and making some mistakes or simply disagreeing with someone's opinion is now 'toxic.'

You're right justbecause - it is heartbreaking.

There's is no discussion and no chance to try to put things right as you say and it's horrible isn't it Justbecause.

Being excluded from your daughter's wedding must be utterly heartbreaking; I'm so very sorry .

That’s so sad. There is definitely a generation, I’m not quite sure what age group.

I’ve been experiencing this recently and as a parent am finding it heartbreaking.

There is no discussion it’s just they make the decisions. No opportunity to put things right.

I’ve had a rocky two years with her and her Partner because I’ve said the wrong things or reacted badly to something she did.

So now I am excluded from their wedding.

I am devastated.

Hello Spring, it's good to see your post and I hope you had a good trip.

Yes it is sad, sad and frightening to think that another family's been ripped apart and the one responsible sees her part in it as something to be proud of.

I'm not surprised you had to walk away.

Just back from a short trip away and have enjoyed catching up on all your posts. It’s so good folk here are able to share about all aspects of life not just estrangement. Sorry about the house probs Hugs. What a pain but you will get it sorted. DL - be gentle with yourself. Can only imagine the range of emotions swirling, not made any easier by others choosing to act up. Really hope that things calm down and you can grieve in peace.
Whilst away was sitting on a park bench and 3 young women came and sat on the next bench. One was talking away and I felt she was not being particularly pleasant, but she then began talking about her ‘toxic’ parents. What really amazed me though was how proud she seemed to be telling her friends that her husband didn’t know he came from a dysfunctional family, but now she’d explained it to him they no longer saw his parents!! One friend gently suggested that must cause a lot of family pain, but this was immediately dismissed. I had to leave because I couldn’t bear to listen to any more. The story wasn’t told with any sadness - more a sense of how great she was, and clearly she wasn’t bothered that others could hear her. I left shocked by the arrogance I witnessed. Made me think of all of us here, and the young people we have in our lives whose actions have proved to be so destructive. But mostly I just felt sad.