Interesting watch

No, I don't think it's fair to basically undermine the experiences of others.

Estrangements, whatever the reasons, brings pain/stress with it. No one is immune from it. To then feel disbelieved adds to the fray.

I don't really get it why people can't just understand, that, regardless of personal experiences, books, pods, stats, every situation is different, and just discuss it in that frame of mind.🙂

Great post DiamondLily. Not only is it unfair and a bit arrogant to say EP's must know so be responsible for their estrangements, it also closes down what can be an informative discussion.

The estrangement forum here on GN provides an opportunity for EP's and EAC to share their experiences with one another, which may help to provide a better understanding of the other's perspective. That's not going to happen if some feel that their open and honest account is being invalidated.

Estrangements happen for a variety of reasons, there's no one size fits all.

Sometimes it can be due to the poor behaviour of EPs, past or current, and sometimes it can be down to the poor behaviour of the ACs.

Everyone has their own experiences, and every single one will be different.

We all have our own recollections of childhood, good, bad or indifferent. Between siblings, recollections can vary.

Some, as adults, after a poor childhood, choose to estrange. Others choose to put it behind them and move on.

My two stepsons are estranged now from DH (and me) - one because we won't find his alcohol/gambling addictions, and one because "he doesn't want the burden of elderly parents". I was a bit bemused by the "burden idea" as neither of us have ever asked for a thing...🤔. We have helped them far more, over the last 20 years,

But, fair enough I suppose - but as neither DH or I are willing to do the "eggshell walk" with them, and pander or plead, they will just have to get on with it.🙄

We've got a full life anyway, and although I think that one day, his sons will regret their behaviour, as DH is in poor health, that will be their problem.

However, what I won't accept is that this is in anyway down to us. It's not.

Telling EPs that they must know, hold responsibility for and understand the reasons and justification for their estrangement is unfair and a bit arrogant. Outsiders cannot possibly know.😗

Sometimes the EPs are at fault, sometimes the ACs are, sometimes in in-laws are, and sometimes all sides have handled things badly.

There is also the point that some estrangements are caused by mental health issues. No one's fault - just the way it is.

Otter that was so difficult for you. Focus on your baby and enjoy

OK, enjoy the rest of your evening

Will do, but quite happy to simply respond to others comments for now.

There is a link to the discussion in the OP

I thought it was interesting

Let me know when you have seen it and will gladly discuss

Well so do I Iam but seriously, it's because I like to see a balanced discussion where all experiences are treated with respect and none are responded too with disdain.

Smilesless2012, I often wonder how and why you put your head above the parapet in these discussions on estrangement. I find it hard to accept that you’re sorry smiles isn’t enjoying this discussion VioletSky. My impression is of an endless disagreement between you about estrangement.
My belief is that estrangement rarely comes without previous conflict between the people involved. Often times difficult childhood experiences, attachment issues underpin the estrangement. I don’t accept though, that the adult children don’t share responsibility for all estrangements. There are obvious situations when that caveat doesn’t stand

You appear to be the only one referring to the discussion VS, everyone else is referring to comments made by other posters.

Which part of the discussion interested you eddiecat?

Maybe it's a case of everyone should be open minded but some can be less open minded than others eddiecat.

VioletSky

These are adult relationships Smileless children estranging parents is only one aspect. There are many kinds of estrangement.

Your personal situation is your own but I think it is important for everyone remain open minded to different situations and issues that surround estrangement.

Statements such as "This does not relate to mine or many other situations" slam doors that may lead to reconciliation for some families and put road blocks in front of open discussion

You say that everyone should be open minded to different situations, but then take issue with Smileless reporting the truth of her experience. How is that fair?

Glad to hear that Smileless

So have you come across all the speakers before? Which part of the discussion interested you?

You must have your hands full Otter and it's hard to know how to respond when out of the blue the person who estranged you gets in touch .

What makes you think I'm not enjoying this discussion VS or am unable to detach from my personal situation? I've mentioned my experience and you have mentioned yours.

If I wasn't enjoying the thread, I wouldn't be taking part.

That's understandable Otter

I miss those years with tiny babies, exhausting as they were

Really uncanny timing as my self estranged mother rang me this week. I did not answer as I was dealing with baby feeding and sleeping which is more important but the first contact in o era 24 months I didn't feel I should answer. It made me feel angry that she expected me to

I'm sorry you aren't enjoying this discussion Smileless

I find it quite easy to detach my personal situation from discussion in general but I appreciate that's quite difficult for some

Yes it is an ongoing problem in estrangement discussions Madgran as we see here on GN. It's difficult to feel for example that one's personal experience is being acknowledged, when there are comments about not agreeing with the numbers of people who say they've not been given a reason for their estrangement, and how can total ignorance of offending behaviour exist.

A poster who says they've never been given a reason is as entitled to be believed as the poster who says they gave reasons and tried to save the relationship, but to no avail.

People will seek to validate their experiences when those experiences are being invalidated by others.

Interesting post Lyle-Lyle. And a good description of the difficulties that can arise.

Yes open comments are good; that includes statements that open up previously closed statements Violet which is good.

Really insightful comment lyleLyle thank you

I don't discuss estrangement anywhere else for the reasons mentioned

I'm as different as every estranged child is to each other

I was willing to reconcile for a long time and it took me a long time to move on from that hope

That's not because I changed my mind and decided to close a door, it is because I went through the process of grieving and my connection or need for those family members healed. I no longer feel that need and the connection is gone.

Of course the fact that my situation exists opens up the possibility that others feel the same way, that there are estranged people waiting for the right words or the right changes to walk through that door again

That's enough evidence for me that reconciliation after estrangement is a possibility for some families and that is without reading a website like stand alone and hearing it from others

It’s hard to open ears and listen when one is actively and primarily seeking validation of “their side” of the story. That puts an immediate roadblock in the way because seeing things from the other perspective is automatically deprioritised. I find this to be be the case too often. As we all can admit, estrangement doesn’t just happen out of nowhere, even if the end of the relationship felt abrupt. How can we simultaneously admit that estrangement is not something that comes out of thin air, but deny awareness of any offense we may have caused? How can it be both? I cannot reconcile these two stances. Estrangement is no light action to take. For such a heavy response to a familial relationship breakdown, how can total ignorance of the offending behavior truly exist? It just doesn’t seem likely.

I am in total agreement with all comments that point out that there are specific nuances and differences in each case. I find this subject to be one of those where it is a very slippery slope when learning from the experiences of others. It can be very insightful and help you work through feelings surrounding your own situation. However, as it has been pointed out, each situation and relationship is its own. The circumstances surrounding an individual estrangement are their own. The personalities and relationship dynamics are their own, even in those instances where there appears to be similarities. But there is always the danger of tribalism that can lead to being a barrier to reconciliation. It happens all the time. You read about someone else’s situation, which is totally different to your own, but is related to estrangement so you feel a shared sense feeling wronged. Instead of examining your individual circumstances, you lean into the tribe and the labels. We speak so specifically about the offenses of the other parties, and either gloss over or flat out never mention our own. The Us vs Them aspect then becomes the rallying call, and the individual relationships remain broken and likely to shatter for good. And I’m sure it provides a temporary comfort, but it’s a false comfort because our losses still are what they are. So while I do agree that there is absolutely some benefit to listening to how others have worked through broken relationships, in the end it all comes back to the people directly in the relationships. One or both have to be willing to accept that the way you have treated someone or behaved toward them was unacceptable to that person, even if you disagree on how your behavior should have been perceived.

Unrelated to my comments above, I also caution dismissing one offspring’s (or parent’s) concerns just because others did not agree with the estranger’s recollections. It’s positively absurd to ignore the fact that one person’s experiences with parents (or their child) can and often are quite different even in the same household.

In the interest of honest discussion some statements are open and some are closed

I like open statements, we know from the stand alone website and their research that there is a disconnect between explanations given and explanations recieved and that's one area of conversation that will benefit more people by staying open

it is important for everyone (to) remain open minded to different situations and issues that surround estrangement

I agree. The difficulties tend to arise when people describe their circumstances/experiences and then, in the way they express themselves, APPEAR to assume that someone else's experience /circumstances isn't true. It may only be the way thoughts are phrased and may not be intentional (emotions inevitably run high) but it does seem to be an ongoing problem in Estrangement discussions. And as you say can become a barrier. That is one of the main reasons why I continue to point out that there are so many different circumstances and experiences and causes. Certainly not to slam doors but to try to ensure that everyone is able to feel acknowledged in their experience of their Estrangement in order to keep the discussion open, supportive and helpful rather than closed and argumentative. I am sure that is your aim as well. Let's hope it works.