Need some advice and guidance

I think anyone who knows anything about healthy boundaries would know that using children in any circumstances is wrong.

The OP's D can set healthy boundaries between herself and her mother, without using her child as 'piggy in the middle'.

Healthy boundaries are often poorly understood

I totally agree Delila; good post.

The sentence, and the sentiment behind it, are destructive and immature.

Never mind that the granddaughter has a relationship with her grandmother, possibly the closest she gets to any sense of stability in her troubling young life, grandma will be out of their lives if she displeases the child’s mother.

Nothing about the mother’s attitude towards her child is age appropriate, there are no “healthy boundaries”. That girl is being used to blackmail the grandmother and doesn’t know which way to turn. She has to match her behaviour to whichever adult she needs to please most, usually her chaotic mother.

This complex family situation needs outside help as soon as possible.

I don't agree that the sentence itself is fine. You shouldn't teach children that it's acceptable to use others to 'punish' someone whose been mean to you.

That sentence is age appropriate and constructive.

Whether it applies to this situation is separate

The sentence itself is fine

It is always good to teach children healthy boundaries

Not at all constructive VS to tell an 11 year old that she may be stopped from seeing the GM who she's spent so much time with, because her mother doesn't get on with her.

If she's happy to see her GM and has a good relationship with her, her mother should be mature enough not to allow the differences she has to affect her D's relationship, especially when the mother seems unable to provide her with a stable environment at home.

One of my granddaughters is 11. She's a very fussy eater, either 'starving' or not hungry (depending on what I have to offer and whether I'll order a takeaway).

Lately, she spends most of her time upstairs (on her mobile, chatting to her best friend) and she can be quite blunt, rude even, as she's hormonal too. Why does 'teenage' have to strike so early?

Just a few years ago she was a lovely kid - a joy to look after, very sociable and caring with her siblings. There are no family problems, she has lovely parents, home and school life - so the change is quite dramatic and (let's hope) just a phase. I remind her about her manners. She's slim, lively and athletic - and has found puberty and periods quite horrendous.

Image if she had an unreliable single parent, fond of her drink and mentally unstable? How awful would she be then, aware of being stuck in a family squabble?

Any adult that says that to an 11yr old is a nasty piece of work. I would report her to social services for the neglect. I wouldn’t want a relationship with anyone that treats her own child as she has. She is your daughter but there is no excuse. My daughter is a good mother, she has looked after her children well, they are educated and articulated, well looked after. Her problem is me, I respect her wishes for no contact, however I’ve never for one minute doubted she does her best for my gc. she is a good mother, my conscience if she hadn’t been wouldn’t have let me say nothing, I would have contacted socially services, children come first every time.

"Grandma will not be in our lives if she is mean to me" is actually a very constructive age appropriate way to explain to a child that we should expect others not to be mean and that we don't have relationships with mean people

Grandma will not be in our lives if she is mean to me a horrible thing for her to say to your GD which must be making her confused and insecure and as a result, as LondonMzFitz has suggested, may be making her behave in ways so she feels more important, and has some 'control'.

I understand why you're thinking of reducing the number of sleepovers as these are so your D can go out, but I would think carefully about this as the time your GD gets to spend with you provides much needed rest bite from her less than satisfactory home life.

Your grandaughter is stuck in the middle of your dysfunctional relationship with your daughter

If you have concerns about your granddaughters welfare at home then you absolutely must call social services. That's your duty.

Until those concerns are proven by the authorities you have absolutely no way to know whether your grandchild is exaggerating or not or if it's worse than she is telling you... So call them.

You have absolutely no real evidence of what your grandchild is saying to her mother about you. Perhaps your grandchild is unhappy in both situations and that is why she also complains about you to her mother.

Either way your grandchild needs help, you need to do your part.

I'd suggest you work on healing your relationship with your daughter and getting her the support she needs to parent well but as you have no interest in doing that, then you call social services.

Please never agree to keeping secrets for a child again. That is hugely damaging to your ability to get the right support it is your responsibility as an adult to obtain for her

What is the content of those emails? That information is crucial if you want more realistic feedback

LondonMzFitz

Your GD has to live with her Mum, so it's possible she's saying things she thinks Mum will approve of - badmouthing you, OP, might in some stupid way make her Mum (your DD) "happy". Poor kid, stuck in the middle. And perhaps - if she's an oversensitive child, is it possible she sees something in you when she talks about her Mum and her behaviour? I'm not saying GD is playing you off against each other, but if she's getting reactions from each party perhaps that's making her feel a little important in a situation where she seemingly has little control.

May I suggest - a book I got years ago when my son was having a hard time at school - ]]

Even if you just read the sample, it might give some ideas how to hold a non-judgemental conversation with your GD. I'd say - big picture - the child needs to talk to a third party - does the School have a councillor she could talk to? This really isn't something a child should be dealing with.

Thanks, I will take on board what you say.
I realised I had said to much and maybe she is picking a side. I know both me and her Mother are ultimately responsible.

Her Mother said to her when caught in her lie and not returning from her holiday “ Grandma will not be in our lives if she is mean to me” I told her she was selfish for lying and not coming home from abroad

Food conversions came from her. She said her Mother doesn’t feed her. She said she heated up microwave rice and handed her the bag. Take away burgers for her Mum and friends and she got a bag of chips. With the rice there was nothing else except a bit of canned tuna: so it went for years. Yes I became hyper sensitive about feeding her nutrients but there was excitement from her. She gets a choice of what to eat and gets 3 squares a day here. Pancakes every weekend so there is no denial of junk food.

Everyone who knows me knows I cook, I create, always have. She is not force fed or denied anything.

I think the food conversion is a way to hurt me being used by my Daughter.. she knows that it’s very unlikely there is no food in my house or that I refused food.

The child may be fed up ( no pun intended) with my response to her not being fed. I get that. I also get that I may sound preachy to a child who is not a baby anymore. She hung on my every word and she doesn’t need my constant input now she is growing.

My house is chilled and safe. There is no drama.
She is told she can come or she can stay. Go home when she wants or stay as long as she wants.
She told me her Mother has told her she must come so she can go out. I need to reduce the sleepovers though.

at that age it's natural that she would prefer to be talking to her friends online rather than to an old person.
your lifestyles and experience are bound to be so different.
quite apart from the antipathy re her mother that you express.
that only adds to the difficulty.
you do sound obsessed about food.
why don't you let GD eat what she wants.
perhaps you come across as preachy about food, and about her mother.
it's obviously a difficult situation all round.
but i think you have to step back, and be less emotionally invested in all this.
don't say anything about her mother to GD.
if GD says anything about her mother, just listen, don't comment.
decide what you are willing to do re having GD to stay, but once she is there try to relax and let her relax.
maybe she find your food offerings odd; maybe she prefers sandwiches.
why was she hungry, are you limiting food, or only allowing certain foods.
let her eat what she wants, and as much as she wants, without comment, as you would with an adult guest.
don't make her feel uncomfortable for just being herself.
all the best.

Thanks for the support
I am being stripped emotionally and was hoping that people wouldn’t be too judgmental here .

I love that child with every part of my heart. I have striven to put her needs above my own. I have to implement soft boundaries so she doesn’t think I am a shmuck.

I was so hurt by the email I received from her Mother. The thought that the child couldn’t talk to me. I have made mistakes I know but not to the extent that she should stop seeing me.
We are not as close as I imagined 😔

Your GD has to live with her Mum, so it's possible she's saying things she thinks Mum will approve of - badmouthing you, OP, might in some stupid way make her Mum (your DD) "happy". Poor kid, stuck in the middle. And perhaps - if she's an oversensitive child, is it possible she sees something in you when she talks about her Mum and her behaviour? I'm not saying GD is playing you off against each other, but if she's getting reactions from each party perhaps that's making her feel a little important in a situation where she seemingly has little control.

May I suggest - a book I got years ago when my son was having a hard time at school - www.amazon.co.uk/How-Talk-Kids-Will-Listen/dp/1848123094?tag=gransnetforum-21

Even if you just read the sample, it might give some ideas how to hold a non-judgemental conversation with your GD. I'd say - big picture - the child needs to talk to a third party - does the School have a councillor she could talk to? This really isn't something a child should be dealing with.

lily referred to the much bigger issues in her OP Hithere, none of which you addressed. I know there's a tendency for some to seek to criticise the OP in situations like this if they're the GM or m.i.l. but I fail to see how that's at all helpful with such an upsetting and difficult situation.

I completely agree Smileless 2012

Perhaps re-consider talking to SS? I think that's your answer.

You're clearly between a rock and a hard place lily and having read your last post, I fully understand why you're reluctant to involve SS which is why I think it's imperative to keep your relationship going with your GD, and to spend as much time with her as possible.

lily referred to the much bigger issues in her OP Hithere, none of which you addressed. I know there's a tendency for some to seek to criticise the OP in situations like this if they're the GM or m.i.l. but I fail to see how that's at all helpful with such an upsetting and difficult situation.

I know it’s not about food.
It was never about the food.

The complaint may be about food but it is hiding much bigger issues

Your house is on fire and you worry about the curtains

I wish you luck

Thanks for all the replies.

Yes the post is all about food because the complaint is all about food.

The reason I have not called in SS is complex. Firstly the child swore me to secrecy as she confided in me. She had me as a safety valve and knew I could be there to get her should she need me. A family she goes to school with were under SS scrutiny. The Mother was an alcoholic and the Father who is a heroin addict beat the Mother in front of the children who then became violent at school. The SS did nothing. As hard as it was I felt that involvement of them would further isolate the child. Potentially she could be alone with her Mother knowing she had told me everything and forbidden to see me again. The child has always been my focus and as dysfunctional as my relationship with her mother is our relationship has always been healthy.

No easy way through this. I am very grateful just to let it out. Thanks

Op

If her mother is as bad as you describe her, why haven't you called social services yet?

Your gd deserves a chance, not a civil war between her mother and gm