Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

Nice to see your supportive post Madgran hope you are keeping well.

Thankyou Whiff. My Health is a bit of a trial at the moment but hey ho! I do read though so I keep up with everyone's news etc 🙂

Welcome to our Page Tracy, our page now including you. Please stay to get help and guidance from all on here. As you and most on here, I don't know why I was cut out aside of jealousy. 11yrs now for me & Smiles, Allsorts a little longer I think, shocking isn't it and no matter what you do nothing will please them, but in the beginning, you try everything.

You need to be proud of yourself for bringing up your son on your own with all your disabilities, so well done you and shame on your son for cutting you out on his partners say-so.

Afternoon everyone, hope you're all OK.

We have some and blue sky here today which makes a change from the grey miserable weather we've had of late. I need cheering up because I've still got this flaming cough, although better than it was, it's kept me away from choir and singing lessons, and I doubt I'll be able to go again this week.

We'll make the most of the dry weather and take the dogs out for a nice walk this afternoon, and have a dinner with all the trimmings to look forward too later.

Hope your cough clears up soon Smileless - can be so draining! Yes lovely day here too so went out and had a Caesar salad (trying to lose a bit of weight - minus the dressing) followed by a nice walk. Longing for a lovely roast dinner but will stick to scrambled eggs later. Have 4 weddings coming up this year, bitter sweet as ever as our EC won’t be part of them, and I know their cousins would love to see them, but it is what it is. I have no ability to change anything. I think that’s the trickiest part of estrangement. There is no route left open to even try to repair the relationship/build any bridges. I have a good friend a bit younger than me who says she had a terrible childhood and has a v poor relationship with her parents. She is married with her own children. But she makes the decision to see her parents infrequently and limits the time she is with them. Not perfect but at least should her parents ever feel able to express any remorse there is a way for her to receive this. I doubt this is likely as from what she’s said her parents are unable to give her emotionally what she needs/has needed. But there remains an opening. I respect her for this.
Terribly sad when people for whatever reason give up on others/cancel them, leaving them no way to ever make amends.

Smiles hope your cough goes soon . My daughter had a cold before Christmas and had a cough for 3 weeks. She had flu last week and was in bed for 2 days but with 2 young boys to look after she couldn't stay in bed any longer luckily her husband can work flexible hours and his parents took the youngest on Monday for the day.

Problem with coughs it's not just the fact you cough but it hurts your chest and you have to pick your moments to eat and drink otherwise you end up choking. Plus it effects your sleep which then makes you tired the next day .

Yesterday we had a light dusting of snow this morning have an inch. Which is strange for here. Will be putting on my hiking boots to go too the hair dressers. But it's only a couple of roads away from my bungalow. And will walk very slowly.

Spring my husband never liked his parents but always loved them. They never gave him any love or attention but he would never give up on them . They where bad enough before we got married but after they got worse. But we went every Sunday and if they started on at us we walked out and went to my parents as we always visited his first. But we always went back the following Sunday. My father in law told me I was defective but at least he said it to my face. The only thing we did right in his eyes was have the children he adored them both but he died in 1988 funny enough that was the year my health got worse . But he died after I came out of hospital aged 70. My mother in law took against our daughter from when she was a baby but was all our son until he got his own personality.

My husband got what he had been lacking in his life from my parents and extended family.

I have only ever hated 2 people in my life and those where my in laws. But after my husband died I looked after his mom because she was his mom and the children's nan . Even though after his funeral she denied she ever had a son or 2 grandchildren. 40 years I hated that woman but I couldn't not look after her until she died at 91. We all have to live with ourselves and I couldn't turn my back on her that's not who I am.

That's what hurt so much about what my son and daughter in law have done. They know what a vindictive and manipulative mother ,mother in law and grandmother is as they both knew her.

And yet my son called me vindictive and manipulative would love to know how and when . But never will. As he hasn't got the guts to face me. At least my in laws where vile to us to our faces and also my family .

Sunday my new door bell arrived . I had the same make as before. So wondered if the holes would be in the same place for the bell. And they were. So with my trusty rechargeable screwdriver I got the screws out and fitted the new one and felt rather smug doing it myself. It has a battery in but the chime bit plugs in as it's wireless. I had great fun choosing a ring tone out of 16 of them some did make me laugh . When its December will change it to the Christmas tone. Put it on the loudest setting and it lights up as well when rang. I can just imagine what my daughter will say when she hears the tone I picked but it made my laugh. I know small minds 🤣.

Hope everyone stays warm and wrap up warm if you have to go out.

Whiff Well done on putting your doorbell on. I used to always have a go at fixing things, even serviced my boiler, cleaning out the condenser, but I don't anymore.

Spring 4 weddings to look forward to, that's lovely.

Smiles hope your cough is better, I & all my family had it, it's called the 100day cough!

Whiff, I wonder who would have cared for your mil if you hadn't? . None of us know what reasons our children give to others when they cut us off.

Estrangement from a gn friend hasn’t affected me one little bit it’s always been a one sided relationship and I’m fed up with her

Morning everyone.

Hope you are all managing to stay warm and safe especially when venturing outside. Hope your DD's feeling better Whiff, it's bad enough feeling unwell but even worse when there are little ones to see too.

Cough's a lot better thanks Yogin but still hanging around. No choir last night anyway because our choir master's got it now so it could be a couple of weeks before we start up again.

We know something of the 'reasons' given for our estrangement Allsorts, but they were total fabrications which I suppose is to be expected when you've done nothing to deserve it.

We had a very productive day yesterday and started painting our banisters and rails. Because we have a town house on 4 floors including the basement, there are 4 large sections to do which is why we always said we'd never paint them, but leave them natural.

A few months ago we were watching a drama on the tv and staircase was black, it looked so good we decided (in a moment of madness) to do ours.

The first section finished yesterday, undercoat and glossed with a high gloss finish paint, and it looks amazing , so itching to get the next section done today.

I very much doubt that would affect me either Bonnybanko.

Allsorts well it definitely wouldn't have been her brother. He you have whipped her into a home and turned up when she died.

But I looked after her because I could not . She was my husband's mom,my mother in law and my children's nan. We all have to live with our conscience and my wouldn't let me and I hated that woman for 40 years.

Spring 4 weddings good excuse for 4 new outfits but also 4 wedding presents but parties to look forward to.

Bonnybanko I ended a 5 year friendship in December . I had told her from the start I don't do one way friendships. But she let me down twice last year and went from speaking every week to once a fortnight then she only text if I text first. Last time we spoke was in October when she was going to come and stay with me but decided not to. She was coming in July but one of her cats got attacked by a fox. So she cancelled last minute. Because of my disability it effects me physically but also found out how it effects how I have had to do things my whole life. Only had my diagnosis in April 2022 it's rare and I was born with a hereditary neurological condition but since my diagnosis and talking to others with it my life makes sense and the way I have to do things and how it effects me if I can't.
Anyway she cancelled October again at the last minute no excuse but still had her 4 cats put in the cattery then told me she had a lovely week just doing what she wanted without having the cats. I decided then next we spoke I would end the friendship and did and haven't given her thought since. She was a friend from where I used to live .

I have made lot of friends on GN. And in real life since my move here never had so many genuine friends that I know will help me and have and I will help them and have.

This is an example of what northerners are like. Yesterday had my hair cut . Saloon only a couple of roads away. It was slippy with snow on the ground so wore my hiking boots and walked very slowly with my stick. On the way home I waited to cross a road and as the car turned into the round a woman rolled down her window and asked if she could take me home because she was worried I would slip with my stick. I thanked her very much for her kindness but I was almost home.

Where I used to live my neighbour would beep his horn and wave as I was walking up the hill with my shopping in my back pack on our way home . We had been neighbours since the late 80's until my move here in 2019 . My late husband always gave people lifts.

Took me a move of over 100 miles to live my life to the full like my husband wanted. In my old house I existed. I wasn't happy . But here only negative thing is my son's estrangement in 2020 his choice never saw it coming. But I have far more positives in my life to out weigh the one negative. And I am happy and love my life here.

Smiles hope you are feeling better today and your cough isn't as bad as it was.

Smiles we crossed posts . My daughter still coughing away but feeling better. Glad you felt well enough to paint with Mr S. Bet it looks amazing .

Hi Everyone, I’m new to this. I am feeling bereft having looked after my grandchildren since babies and giving up everything to be constantly available, willingly but sometimes at the cost of my own wellbeing. They are only 4 & 2 and moved away 6 months ago, a days drive. I am a very kind Nan and they and I adored each other. Since then I have been treated quite poorly over any chance to see them. They promise then let me down at the last minute which has happened a lot. The older child thinks I don’t want to see her because I don’t visit and I can’t say that’s not true because I would then be telling her that her Mum and Dad are the ones preventing it. I don’t know why other than on one occasion my daughter, in front of the children blamed me for something which wasn’t happening to cover her lies to them. I kept quiet in front of the children but asked my daughter to try not to blame me because I wanted them to know they could always trust me as someone of my word. Then she said they always misbehave when I’m around which just isn’t true. The parents have a very authoritative style of parenting and I prefer to distract and engage which works for me. She now has a paid, inexperienced unqualified Nanny to care for them who is also authoritative I hate to say it but I think my daughter enjoys playing mind games with me knowing how upset I am at not having contact. I’m not invited to stay with all sorts of excuses knowing I can’t afford hotels. I was finally going to get a weekend with them while they go away and wanted childcare so I arranged everything then suddenly she said the Nanny is going to have them and I can’t stay or visit. I said I was very upset and missing them dreadfully. I also worry about them. I don’t want to risk a complete cut off by them but have to endure this minefield and really can’t find words to reassure my granddaughter. My grandson is rapidly becoming more distanced from me. sorry, a long rant of self pity I know

Welcome Sewingnan So sorry to hear about your sad plight, a day's drive is a long way to go to visit, so of course you have to stay with them. I know your GC are your world, as were mine, so it must be very painful for you, you must voice this to your DD & S.i.l to see if you can sort things out for visits.

Stay on here with us and get the support, understand & advise you need. Good luck xx

Sewingnan will response properly tomorrow as my phone's battery almost gone. But I feel your pain. You are amongst friends here who understand how you feel and you will get support and understanding.

Thank you for responding, just to be able to confide when you feel isolated waking at 3am again, helps hugely. I felt guilty talking about family negatively. I’m not giving up yet but struggle to manage my feelings around it all. It is so sad to read that there are lots of us negotiating such tricky relationships which is so unnecessary. I’m watching a friend start to go through something too where she is expected every week to childcare to then have to deal with a very rude sharp tongued daughter criticising her in front of others. It is awful to see her upset but like many bites her tongue through fear of rejection. I mentioned I might try to move closer to my grandchildren but the reality is it’s more expensive where they are now and they have also mentioned moving abroad. I was told that some grandparents only see their GC once a year which I know is true but a good relationship with a Grandma can be such a benefit to children I don’t get why parents would want to damage that. It is a living bereavement isn’t it? I send you all a big hug going through similar situations.

Morning everyone and a warm welcome to this support thread sewingnan.

Please don't feel guilty for opening up about what's happening in your family, and don't think that by sharing here it's self pity. You have every right to be hurt, upset and worried. There are problems in all families, and when for whatever reason you feel unable to discuss what's worrying and/or upsetting you with those concerned, this is a good place to get things off your chest.

I do wonder what's gone wrong as there seems to be so many GP's not seeing their GC at all, seeing very little of them or like your friend, helping out which for some is to the point of exhaustion and rather than being appreciated, find themselves at the sharp edge of their ungrateful AC and not feeling they can say anything for fear of not seeing their GC at all.

I do hope you'll think very carefully about moving nearer to your D as that may make no difference and if you did live nearer, not being able to see her and your GC as often as you'd like, would be even harder.

All relationships with extended family are beneficial, and when I think of the wonderful relationship I had with my maternal GM, I do think that the GC/GP relationship is one of the most beneficial.

Managed to sing in the church choir this morning, struggled a little toward the end because my throat still isn't a 100% but it was good to get back too it.

Just the final, most awkward section of the staircase to gloss and then it'll be finished. Can't believe how quickly we've done it and how fabulous it looks!!!

We're so thrilled, we keep going to look at it . Maybe I need to get a life.

Thank you Smileless, your words of wisdom and kindness comforting. I have been looking inwards self reflecting and realise I need to hold on to my self respect while keeping calm and kind and thinking of new ways to set boundaries. It is not the relationship I dreamed of but nothing stays the same. I have read a lot of the good advice on this and other threads. I realise I need to spend a little more time on getting myself fitter and content so that I have something to offer my GC in the future and to see if I can have some pre arranged dedicated time with them however infrequent. I show love through my sewing and can keep doing this for them and for me as a means of connection. I miss their warm hugs and cute silliness so much and at the moment I’m not cut off but just largely cut out of their lives so hold on to that hope. Your DIY sounds bold and challenging! It is good to see normality amongst all the angst in the threads too

sewingnan I only just realised reading your original post that the last time I saw my son's 2 eldest they were 4 and 2. I always think of them the age they are now 7,5 and their brother 3.

I know the eldest 2 would have forgotten me by now just hope my son and daughter in law haven't told them I didn't care or that I am dead. Last time I saw my grandsons in person was March 2020. Never met or know the name or date of birth if their youngest but I have given him a name as it hurts to much to think of him without one.

As for moving closer to live by them like already advised think very hard about it. I moved closer to live by my children but that had always been the plan since they left home 2 years after my husband died. But it's what I wanted . They needed to live their own lives. But I couldn't move as I had both parents and mother in law to look after . I lived over 100 miles from them so only saw them so many times a year they would come to me for a day or so and I would visit them for 3-4 days staying in a hotel as until my daughter and son in law brought their first house there was no spare bedroom for me.

I never thought my son would do what he has as we always had a close relationship with both our children and they knew they could talk to us about anything no subject was taboo . I had a kind and loving son for 32 years no idea who he is now. We didn't bring him up to be cruel and cowardly unfortunately he has shown himself to be both. After 7 months of seeing him every week with my grandsons . And I know they loved coming here as my son told me they got excited when they realised were they where going. Covid hit and to be honest it was the excuse they needed to distance themselves from me . I still had phone calls,texts photos and videos . Last saw my son was on my birthday 2020 then 4 days later an email giving me the boot as his mom . As many of us have experienced lies and half truths and assumptions about how I reacted to things that happened in their life. He called me vindictive and manipulative which I nor my late husband have ever been. He said he loved me but didn't like me and to give him time. So I did until August it was his birthday and 2nd son's birthday the same day and knew my new grandson was due end of July. At the time of the email my sin knew there was a problem with my heart and waiting to have a bubble echocardiogram. In his card put a friendly letter and told him they found a hole. A cheque how it was to be spilt and card and presents for my new grandson. Day after their birthday everything came back all unopened and the 3 baby presents crushed. A hand written letter which was short but ended I don't want your vindictive and manipulative behaviour near me or my family ever again zero contact.

My daughter and grandson was here when it arrived which I was glad of . When I had the email he sent one to his sister as well but she didn't care as they hadn't got on for years due to my daughter in law's jealousy. But they never got on from the first time they met a year after my husband died. My son has gotten rid of his side of the family and has hurt my brother very much as in his words what the xxxx did I ever do to them.

Like you mentioned estrangement is a grief. It is always there but for me it's for the son I knew not who he is now.

It's very early days for you to come to terms with what's happened and it hurts so much your heart is breaking especially as you say your eldest grandchildren thinks you don't care. Unfortunately there nothing you can say or do. Your daughter decided you are expendable and there is nothing you can do to change that.

Since my estranged I only text my son 3 times the last time was months ago as I decided to message him and if I got silence or abuse that you be it. Only person hurting was me I got abuse so I am done. I will always love my son but would never trust him again and I can never forgive or forget the horrible things he wrote about me or what my daughter in law after trolling me in 2020 on another GN thread and what she wrote about me on Reddit. I don't hate either of them as I had that for my in laws for 40 years . Don't want or need hate in my life. But the love I had for my daughter in law died when she wrote one sentence about my husband a man she never knew. I thought how can someone who loves my son write anything so wicked about a man she never knew.

It's sad but we have to protect ourselves against our own children. And not allowing them to hurt us is hard but I gave my son 3 years and that's as much as I am giving him . I am done . If he wants me he knows where I am but if he did want me back in their life which won't happen I would be setting down the rules and wanting an explanation for his behaviour and that of my daughter in law.

Our children think they are the perfect parents they are not and one day our grandchildren will point that out to them and see how they feel.

If it wasn't for Smiles and her answering my PMs for months before I could post openly I don't know what I would have done. But everyone on this support thread has gotten me through some tough times . But this is not a doom and gloom thread and we don't just talk about our estrangement . But there is help ,advice if you want it , support , understanding and most importantly of all friendship.

Estrangement has long been a taboo subject but thankfully it's out of the shadows and it's surprising in everyday life how many times this had happened to people either with children, parents or siblings. I talk freely about my son and because I can people have told me about their own experience. And they then realise they are not alone. But the overwhelming response especially from parents is shock and not understanding why it happened and they never saw it coming.

Remember you are not to blame it's down to your daughter. It's hard not to text or write or phone but please spare yourself that heartache. It's hard to come to terms with not seeing your grandchildren but you will forever be their nan and theres not a dam thing your daughter can do about that. Like me you have a long wait until your grandchildren are able to contact you if they want to .
Just kept writing here how you feel as writing it down gets it out of your system if you don't voice your feelings it will only hurt you more and could lead to depression. There will be some who will say you need counselling especially one person who always says that on any topic . But ignore that . You don't need counselling as it won't do any good plus it's a waste of money as you pay to talk too someone . Talk to us Smiles ,Yogin and Allsorts plus other long timers can help for free. As you notice I ramble on but that's me in real life. 😁.

It has taken you courage to write about your estrangement and never let anyone put you done. 💐

Morning everyone, I hope you are all safe after last night's storm and free from any structural damage. As you can imagine, we've checked right through the house and are relieved to be dry. After so many years of water problems, I don't think the worry will ever really go away.

How lovely sewingnan, that you can show your love for your GC and retain a connection through your sewing, and now we know why you chose your GN name .

You're experiencing low contact so yes, there is hope, but that doesn't make the heart break any easier to live with, especially when there's been that strong bond with your GC.

Yes, "bold and challenging" sums up our latest DIY project perfectly. Mr. S. finished the glossing yesterday so there's just some touching up to do now. You should have seen the look on his face when I said to him "so what shall we paint next?" .

We find that chattering away about our lives and what we're up too in general is to some extent a welcome relief and also reinforces to us, and shows to anyone who this has just or very recently happened too, that there is a life after estrangement.

As you said, this is not how we envisaged our lives would be and I certainly thought 11 years ago that I would never be able to find peace and happiness again, but I have and in no small way because of the friendships and support to be found here.

When I think of our GS's Whiff, I think of the eldest who was 11 this month as that 8 month old I kissed goodbye with no idea I'd never see him again. When our ES wrote in an email that they'd never stop us from seeing him because they knew how w much we loved him, we believed him.

It is good as you say to write down how you feel and get it out of your system, especially when you can share those feelings with those who know exactly how you feel, because they feel it too.

Take care dear friends .

Listening to your stories Whiff and Smiles is so very sad, that in a world so full of strife that family can’t accept their differences, if that is a trigger and appreciate the good. Instead it seems just one foot misplaced and GP are banished for life. It is cruel not to explain the reasons behind it at the very least. Society seems to be encouraging people to just cut off yet mental health is deteriorating. I am amazed at how you have coped. Although I guess without choice you somehow have to. It is especially hard when you might see your AC make so much effort with others who don’t care as much yet they somehow excuse their faults. I find it hard when it seems all around me that Grandparents on the whole are enjoying time with their GC. There seems to be an increasing need for ‘control’ going on amongst some of the younger generation in a strange and warped way and often in couples one seems forced to comply to validate ‘love’ for the other and exclusion of Grandparents can be a real power struggle when there is no real basis for it. Some seem readily offended and over react whilst not seeing their own offensive behaviour. I’ve been lucky enough to have been to India and noticed that even in real poverty that the atmosphere and overall love and respect for family and parents especially shone through with a gentleness that seems to be missing here. I’ve been watching the series on Mumbai and this comes across in this too with such care for their parents. A little generalised maybe but I feel here we now tread carefully over everything and this is so stressful. Families are more fragmented yet my Nan, who I adored and lived with for a while looking after her after my Grandad died, was the youngest of 15. 2 were killed in WW2 but the remaining 13 stuck together and although they eventually moved apart, died etc I don’t remember nasty gossip or spitefulness and major fall outs, instead their conversations were ones of laughter and amusement at each others indiscretions and acceptance. What I did notice in India was change, parents who strived to get their children better educated, succeeded at great personal sacrifice then the adult child moved away for a good job met an American for example, married and the Grandchildren these families so looked forward to welcoming hardly ever came back to India for visits. There were some very lonely Parents and Grandparents whose health prevented them from travelling and Facetime, although marvellous and better than nothing, just doesn’t compensate. They appeared bewildered by the loss they had effectively enabled. I’m grateful that my AC live in the same country although you can often see the appeal of life elsewhere and they may go and you have to let them live their lives. Mine are adventurous and travel a lot whereas others stay close to home and are content. Sorry, a bit of a mindless ramble about odd things! My own mother never helped with my children even though I became a single Mum when my youngest was only 1. she lived not far away and I made sure I took the children to visit thinking she would surely enjoy it only years later to find out she was annoyed by our visits because it got in the way of her social life. Not a maternal bone in her body, she resented us and was cold. My Dad enjoyed it though but often bowed to her dominance in their relationship. I suppose some of us are just more family orientated than others. I just wasn’t prepared for the overwhelming love I felt for my GC when they were born making separation so overwhelmingly painful too. I feel protective of them too and want to look out for them whilst I know this is not my responsibility but their parents. I try to understand my D and SIL situation too and realise life is just so busy for them that I probably don’t even come close to the top of their list of priorities and I shouldn’t take it so personally. How it will affect the GC though only time will tell because they are also older parents compared to generations past and I think this affects the dynamics too. On a positive I can do a very very long return trip by intercity bus at low cost almost door to door and I’m hoping that once a month I can do this to spend an hour or two with the children after their school day before heading straight home again. I am going to suggest this as an option they might commit to with no other expectations and it won’t interfere with their weekends. I agree with your comments that it may not be healthy or beneficial to move close to them but I am considering a move to where I would like to be and is closer than my current location though so day trips will be easier to manage and I might be able to grow and strengthen my relationship with my daughter again too. I will return to work too while I still can so I have some income again and looking to do some road trips to places I’ve always wanted to see and maybe when ready, help out at a local infant school with their reading classes and where volunteers are always welcome. Looking to the future as positively as I can one step and one day at a time. X

18 months 💔💔 with no idea why. Hurts so much 💔

A great post sewingnan.

We weren't prepared for the overwhelming love we felt the first time we met our eldest GS and I suspect that's how it is for the vast majority of new GP's. He was our first and his brother who we've never met, our second; our only GC.

Your suggestion for spending just an hour or two with the children after school once a month, is a good one and I hope that your D and s.i.l. will be receptive to this. It looks as if thoughts of moving are not just based on being nearer to your D and her family, but also because where they are is an area you would like to live which is a positive.

I love your positive outlook. Thinking about returning to work to enable you to visit the places you've always wanted to see and perhaps in the future helping at a local infants school.

Even now, 11 years on that's not something I could do. I don't like to be around little ones as I still find it too upsetting. I was horrified the first time I helped out with Messy Church when all the children piled in. I didn't know what it was all about and needless to say gave it up. We never go to church on mothers and fathers day, or attend the children's nativity plays and any services centred around children.

BBNan as short as your post is your pain is evident. I'm so sorry and like so many estranged parents, understand the added burden and pain of not knowing why.

Smiles as you know I am lucky to have my daughter and see my 2 grandson's weekly usually. And like you say the love of a grandchild is overwhelming. My mom always said the love you feel for a grandchild is different from the love you feel for your child. She was right . I remember holding my eldest grandson and all I could think was what my husband was missing . But as I held him made a promise to love him double . And have done for all my grandsons even the one I have never met or know his name . My daughters boys know about their granddad and when they are older will tell them more stories about him.

Hope my son remembers it's 20 years since his dad died this year. Remember years ago asking him when he thought grief would end he said 20 years. But no it never ends and gets worse as the years go by but the love I feel for my husband has strengthen.

Glad you felt well enough to sing and glad your painting looks lovely. That's team work for you. This weather has been a good test to make sure you are water tight.

BBNan glad you found this support thread but sad you need it. 18 months is not long and I know you may be holding out hope your child will change their mind. It's the not knowing why that hurts so much . And it rolls around your head whatever did I do to deserve this. And every knock or phone call ,text and email you will think is it them . And it never is and that hurts more. But you are not alone here is a safe place to say whatever you want and know you are understood and will never be judged or blamed or hurt in anyway . You are hurting enough. No one of the regulars or those that pop in who know how you feel will ever say you need counselling as that's not the answer. Someone may pop on and suggest it but she that's her answer to everything just ignore her.

Just post if you feel able or PM one of us. Smiles ,Yogin and Allsorts are long timers here . For me it will be 4 years in May. 💐

4 years in May doesn't time fly Whiff .

Smiles sure does. I get my state pension end of April my only pension. I will get full pension plus 48p per week from the 30 years my husband paid NI contributions. Not much for 30 years . 😱