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Estrangement

Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

(1001 Posts)
Smileless2012 Wed 26-Jul-23 10:56:25

I've been trying to think of something different to say in the OP for this new support thread but was reminded of the old adage 'if it aint broke, don't try to fix it'.

The longevity and success of the support thread speaks for itself, so we just need to keep doing what we do which is being there for one another and giving a warm welcome to anyone new who comes along.

Madgran77 Sun 18-Feb-24 19:28:02

Ladysuisei

@madgran
I can see the benefits of this calm approach and I’m going to continue with it . I believe that if I avoid certain trigger subjects , my son is less likely to get angry. In fact today he smiled , twice !
I know I’m playing the long game here . This is a situation that needs to be carefully managed.
My aim is avoidance of being estranged and hopefully getting back on track with my DiL . Of course I’d love a relationship with my GS but I cannot guarantee this at the moment. That’s why asking this question is on the banned list of subjects. I will need to wait until he’s here I think then wait . It will be excruciating but in order to succeed with this I will need to be calm and patient- it’s very hard , but I feel a bit of optimism thanks . thanks

👍

Smileless2012 Sun 18-Feb-24 19:34:43

It happens from time to time doesn't it Whiff but we know that the success of this thread speaks for itselfsmile.

Well of course she can't lol precisely DL.

Let's hope that we have a repeat performance next week shall we ! fingers crossed for that Ladysu and a smile or two too.

Smileless2012 Sun 18-Feb-24 19:38:53

I'm glad you've found this thread useful over the years Hilltop and thank you for saying so. It is as you say usually friendly and knowing that people find it helpful certainly inspires us to "keep up the good work" smile.

maxiepants Sun 18-Feb-24 21:11:06

Smileless:

"Estrangement happens for all sorts of reasons, and not just because an AC had an abusive/toxic childhood so please don't come here and seek to undermine and invalidate what others share."

Please do show me where I did this.

Yes - estrangement does happen for all sorts of reasons. It's interesting that a theme that keeps repeating on this forum is along these lines: 'Why are my children tossing me away? I did the best I could. I never hit them or abused them. They never wanted for anything and all I ever did was love them. Why are they so ungrateful? In my day we honoured, respected and deferred to our parents/grandparents, simply because they were our elders'.

In this way, the EAC's reasons for estranging, because they don't fit the overt abuse mould, are dismissed.

"...neither do we want to see a parent being continuously verbally abused by their AC. To put themselves in a position where they'll be walking on eggshells for fear of saying or doing the 'wrong' thing because they may never see their GC, or have that relationship taken from them."

Well, it is interesting that you use the expressions 'verbally abused' and 'walking on eggshells'.

As I recall, VioletSky asked Ladysu several times on another thread to detail what her son said to her that was abusive. Not just 'he was swearing and shouting', but the actual words. 'My EAC is verbally abusive to me' is a common refrain on this forum, yet rarely does anyone actually repeat the words their EAC says to them.

My mother, when I finally confronted her with my frustration and hurt over the way she treated me, heard only that I used the F word (once!) in the course of a sentence (^I said something like 'I'm tired of hearing x every f'ing time
you call me!'^) and used it as a shield against every other thing I said to her in that conversation. 'You swore at me,' she told me the next time I saw her. I didn't swear AT her, I simply swore, but she decided it was so offensive that she wouldn't listen to anything else I had to say.

I read an interesting analysis of the phrase 'walking on eggshells' as used by EPs:

Parents who try to reconcile with their estranged adult children often describe themselves as "walking on eggshells." Their children make all the rules, blow up at random. They don't accept invitations enough, offer invitations enough, call enough, text enough, visit enough. The parents feel they're "begging for scraps." Eventually—after a few years, a few months, a few visits, a single visit—the parents back out of the relationship and tell the children they're willing to reconcile only on their own terms. As one mother said recently, "I am coming to realise that they don't want a normal family relationship with us. They want us to know our place and for the entire thing to be run on their terms. [....] So I've decided that we're not playing their games. They want to connect or they don't."

I will leave that to be taken as you wish.

Smileless2012 Mon 19-Feb-24 08:58:14

When you posted this about estrangement from an EAC's perspective, you sought to undermine and invalidate the experiences of the EP's who post her.

"It's a last resort decision that we come to at the end of years or decades of agonising attempts to fix things".

That may well have been your experience maxiepants but it isn't mine or the experience of others here.

I wouldn't describe the section of your post about walking on eggshells as an analysis of the phrase, you have written about what some EP's and EAC have experienced.

An analysis is a detailed examination of the elements or structure of something.

maxiepants Mon 19-Feb-24 09:06:42

Well, thank you for the basic dictionary definition of 'analysis', Smileless. I did think you might be clever enough to read the reprinted paragraph (which analyses how some EPs use the phrase 'walking on eggshells') and draw your own conclusions. Never mind.

When you posted this about estrangement from an EAC's perspective, you sought to undermine and invalidate the experiences of the EP's who post her.

That is so outrageous as to be laughable.

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 09:08:23

@Smiles yes I will do more light conversion and if that’s that for now I’ll be fine . Yes maybe another smile - who knows ! xx

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 09:14:34

@Hilltop because of my severe anxiety my partner used to do all the driving. Then of course he died suddenly. I don’t rely on my son but up until recently he’d offer . I’m working on getting taxis - but with an array of mental health problems I get so panicked I’m tending to become a recluse . I’m hoping one day I’ll feel a bit better with all this . My life has changed so much over the last year it’s a case of one thing at a time

DiamondLily Mon 19-Feb-24 09:25:56

Ladysuisei

@Hilltop because of my severe anxiety my partner used to do all the driving. Then of course he died suddenly. I don’t rely on my son but up until recently he’d offer . I’m working on getting taxis - but with an array of mental health problems I get so panicked I’m tending to become a recluse . I’m hoping one day I’ll feel a bit better with all this . My life has changed so much over the last year it’s a case of one thing at a time

It does take a lot of effort when you’re suddenly on your own.

But, you have to push on and just do it - it gets easier. Don’t become reclusive - that never helps anyone’s mental health.

With my son abroad I cannot and will not burden my DD and SIL with doing everything - the last thing I want to is one of those “needy parents”.

So, I get Ubers, get professionals in for anything I need doing, and just bat on with having a close relationship with them.

Of course, they are there for certain things or in any sort of crisis, but that’s enough.

Not easy, but doable. 💐

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 09:26:06

@maxiepants to assist Smiless I will include a few shall I :
- shut your fu@@ing mouth bitch ( nice )
- you’re a f@@king disappointment ( nice )
- generally screaming and shouting over me not allowing me to calmly speak ( oppressive )
- you’ll never get your Fu@@ing hands on my child . The decision is final ( delivered with added snarl and threatening tone )
- I just want you to shut up and get back into your fu@@ing box ( nice eh ?)
There are a few examples. If your children use this sort of language and it pleases you , well I’m pleased. I’m certainly not happy to have a stocky 6” 4 man ( my AS) using language like this towards me . If this were witnessed in the streets for example it would be classed as a breach of the peace.

Thankfully this weekend we had an oasis of calm . No abuse because I’m handling my own child in a certain way he doesn’t abuse me .
I’m hurt as well as pretty disgusted by his language and tone and yes I find it intimidating. He never used to be like this , making it even worse to take .

I hope this gives you some insight into how NOT to behave like a kind human being.

Smileless2012 Mon 19-Feb-24 09:30:23

As there are only 16 posts available after this one until we once again reach the maximum 1000 posts, the next support thread is now ready to go.

Just to explain Ladysu that each thread on GN is only able to go up to 1000 responses and when this happens, it automatically closes to anymore. It does remain available to be read.

I did read the reprinted paragraph maziepants and your suggestion I didn't because I'm not clever enough is outrageous enough to be laughable.

Maybe I've confused you by not saying that I conclude this is the experience of some EP's and some EAC.

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 09:31:32

@ DiamondLily I suppose because my family have always pitched in then I hoped it would carry on . I am trying. I’m not doing particularly well at the moment because my anxiety is sky high . I have support from mental health professionals to get out and about but after relying on my partner for so long it’s taking time to adjust. I would like to think I could start driving again but as things stand , it’s not possible. My medication prevents this . It’s not good because I used to be so confident on the road in fact I chose to do a lot of the driving. Never mind , hopefully in time xx

Smileless2012 Mon 19-Feb-24 09:34:06

Thank you Ladysu. It can't be easy putting out there the terrible things your son has said to you but should clear up any doubt that he has been verbally abusive.

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 09:36:05

@Smiles ah right I get it ! Not long to go now then and we start afresh . Maybe the next thread will go back to being friendship only flowers

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 09:38:10

@Smiles no not easy , but as I said things were so different this Sunday . I’m confused but there we go .
It’s lovely to not be hearing those words xxx

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 09:45:06

@maxiepants you are wrong in your statement saying EPs only want reconciliation on their terms . I am bending over backwards, accepting responsibility for things I have not done or said plus many other examples. This is in my frantic effort to avoid a full - blown estrangement with my son and his wife . I really will do the utmost to prevent this . Please don’t imply we are all like your mother .

maxiepants Mon 19-Feb-24 09:55:28

Ladysuisei

@maxiepants to assist Smiless I will include a few shall I :
- shut your fu@@ing mouth bitch ( nice )
- you’re a f@@king disappointment ( nice )
- generally screaming and shouting over me not allowing me to calmly speak ( oppressive )
- you’ll never get your Fu@@ing hands on my child . The decision is final ( delivered with added snarl and threatening tone )
- I just want you to shut up and get back into your fu@@ing box ( nice eh ?)
There are a few examples. If your children use this sort of language and it pleases you , well I’m pleased. I’m certainly not happy to have a stocky 6” 4 man ( my AS) using language like this towards me . If this were witnessed in the streets for example it would be classed as a breach of the peace.

Thankfully this weekend we had an oasis of calm . No abuse because I’m handling my own child in a certain way he doesn’t abuse me .
I’m hurt as well as pretty disgusted by his language and tone and yes I find it intimidating. He never used to be like this , making it even worse to take .

I hope this gives you some insight into how NOT to behave like a kind human being.

That sounds intimidating and horrible, Ladysu.

Why did he want you to shut your mouth/shut up and get back in your box? I wonder if you were saying things he was tired of hearing, or if you weren't listening to what he was trying to tell you, perhaps for the umpteenth time? Just a possibility.

I wonder why he's disappointed in you? Why he doesn't want you around his child? Why this decision is so final? I wonder if it has anything to do with things that have happened in the past.

There's no excuse to scream at someone or behave intimidatingly toward them, mother or not. I wonder, if he's so very angry at you, how much more will it take for him to realise this, and realise it's safer all around if he stops having contact with you?

maxiepants Mon 19-Feb-24 09:58:41

*I did read the reprinted paragraph maziepants and your suggestion I didn't because I'm not clever enough is outrageous enough to be laughable.

Maybe I've confused you by not saying that I conclude this is the experience of some EP's and some EAC.*

That's cute that you parroted my words back to me, Svileless. Don't worry though, 'confusing' isn't how I'd describe you.

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 10:12:38

@maxiepants you are so nasty it’s unbelievable. You attempt to justify my son’s abuse towards me by somehow suggesting he’d be “ safer “ wit no contact . That really is a warped way to look at life . I dread to think what your family life must be like when you find you can somehow offer justification for a complete loss of control by a 30 year old man towards his mother . He is disappointed in me because nothing’s ever good enough for him - pure and simple. It appears you have the same outlook on life , self- centred and over entitled .
You’ll be happy to notice that me and my son are currently working through our bad patch towards a more harmonious relationship.

maxiepants Mon 19-Feb-24 10:51:59

That's certainly one hot take. Best of luck Ladysu.

Ladysuisei Mon 19-Feb-24 10:53:23

@maxiepants well are you surprised…….

Whiff Mon 19-Feb-24 11:06:06

Ladysusiei wow . You have found your claws brilliant. Don't ever let anyone put you down . Having no contact with my son I have been spared any verbal abuse. But he and my daughter in law wrote plenty. But neither of them had the courage to face me . Says a lot about them. At least my in laws said everything vile to our face . But we just walked out.But went back the next Sunday.

My son in his email said we hide things about he's dad's cancer . Yes we did because my husband didn't want them to know how much he was suffering. After my son's email I asked my daughter if she wanted to know about her dad as I showed her his email. She said no because it was what dad wanted and knew we where protecting them.

They never knew how vile my mother in law got after my husband died or the fact she denied having a son or grandchildren as it would have hurt them . But they always kept in touch with her and saw her when they came down to see me.

My dad didn't see my children the 2 months before he died I asked he why and he pointed at his body and said this isn't me. They are the oldest I want them to remember as I was. As up to then I had been hurt he didn't see them . Then I understood he was protecting them.

Neither of my children know how bad moms dementia violence got. But it wasn't abuse dementia violence is fear. Mom didn't know who she was ,where or who I was. In her lucid moments she thought I was her mom. But we did have some funny moments . Mom would have hated what she became. But I couldn't put her in a home as I knew I could look after her better than any home. Mom and dad had protected me as a child and with the extended family never made me feel different. It was my turn to protect my mom. Which I had been doing since dad died 10 years before.

Kindness and manners cost nothing . Unlike some think I am not a hateful person and help anyone in anyway I can.

DiamondLily Mon 19-Feb-24 11:08:57

Perhaps our individual bars over what constitutes abuse vary.

I would consider anyone telling at me, swearing and dictating about ashes to be verbal abuse.

It doesn’t really matter what might have triggered someone - would we put up with male domestic abusers saying “well, she/you asked for it”?

Most wouldn’t.

Sorry, it’s abusive and shouldn’t be tolerated from anyone.🙄

DiamondLily Mon 19-Feb-24 11:09:31

DiamondLily

Perhaps our individual bars over what constitutes abuse vary.

I would consider anyone telling at me, swearing and dictating about ashes to be verbal abuse.

It doesn’t really matter what might have triggered someone - would we put up with male domestic abusers saying “well, she/you asked for it”?

Most wouldn’t.

Sorry, it’s abusive and shouldn’t be tolerated from anyone.🙄

Yelling at me.

Smileless2012 Mon 19-Feb-24 11:16:46

Looks like this is the 1000th post.

It's good to see some of new embracing the new thread and for those yet to post there, we look forward to seeing you.

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