Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

Ladysusiei took me a long time to write my post. So just read yours and you sound stronger and glad your seeing you son was better than before. 💐

I have only ever hated 2 people in my life. They where my in laws . But because my husband loved his parents but didn't like them . We never gave up on them no matter what they did and said.

So after he died I never gave up on my mother in law even though she denied she had a son or 2 grandchildren. She refused to go too their weddings. I hated that woman but looked after her and spent 2 days by her bedside watching her die. It was only when she was dead did her brother , sister in law and her sister turned up at the hospital.

I don't hate my son or daughter in law. But love the son I knew for 32 years not who he is now. But any love I had for my daughter in law died after she trolled me on another GN thread writing as a nan and posted a link which she thought was my daughter in law on Reddit. Because I was very ill at the time I clicked the link hence I found out what she had been writing about me for over a year before I moved here. But what killed my love for her was when I read FIL died to get away from MIL. She never knew my husband and he died in agony from 6 tumours and couldn't breath . I had to tell him to stop fighting we would be ok. He died within minutes in our bed with me and our children.

When I read that I thought how can someone who loved my son write something so wicked about a man she never knew.

We brought both our son and daughter up the same . And after my husband died I treated both couples equally. Both of my children wanted me to live closer but I couldn't until after both parents and mother in law died . So I finally moved here in 2019. For 7 months I saw my son and 2 grandson's every week my daughter in was always welcome but never came. Nor was I invited to their home once I lived closer. I live 40 mins from them in a car.

My children where brought up with a disabled mom who had limb jerks and couldn't go out on my own. The limb jerks started in 1988 when our daughter was 4 and son 6 months old. My children never suffered in anyway because of me. My husband was brilliant he said we alter our way of life to suit what you can do. He kept his word. Because the children where young it was easier for us with me in a wheelchair . Until our daughter was 11 my mom and mother in law took it in turns to take the children to school. Our daughter said she would take her brother to and from school when she started high school as the schools where next door to each other over the sports field. My mother in law refused to come to our house ever again.

After my son's email. My son in law told me he knew something was wrong for years but didn't want to upset me.

That's the difference between the couples. My daughter and son in law have always trusted me with my grandsons even when I had the limb jerks then when I had seizures. Like my daughter said I never harm them in anyway why would you harm your grandsons.

Thankfully my neurologist here put me on a tablet which stopped the limb jerks and seizures after 32 years. And thanks to him I finally got diagnosed with a rare hereditary neurological condition.

So no I am not a hateful person . My rage and anger is over my husband dieing but that rage and anger gets me through everyday without him. I had been with him since I was 16 and he was 18. Together 29 years and married 22.

I have no rage or anger towards my son or daughter in law. They made their choice and they live their life and I live mine.

I am not a hateful person and I see my daughter and grandsons every week . I am trusted to look after them on my own . Something I never was with my son and daughter in law.

Estranged children look at things differently to estranged parents . And as been seen on other threads estranged children have their reasons for estranging their parents. And are happier for it.

But I don't know why my son decided I am no longer his mom and the last time I saw my grandson they where 4 and 2 . They will have forgotten me by know. I just hope my son tells them about his dad and hope he remembered it was 20 years ago his dad died.

I don't have time for what if's or whatevers . My husband dieing has hurt me more than anything my son has done. I lost half of me the moment he took his last breath and haven't been whole since . Only some who has lost the love of their life like many here have understand that feeling. Grief never gets easier it gets harder as the years go by but you learn to cope but love never dies. My husband is forever 47 I am 65.

So carry on with your character assassination of me hope it makes you happy. But if it does it says more about you than me.

@smiles yes things were not abusive, showing me that all is not lost . He actually smiled at me a few times which I’ve not had for a while !!
Sadly no hug though despite me requesting one . Possibly too early.
Don’t get me wrong I’m not going to tolerate a superficial totally lacking in warmth relationship for ever but it’s a start . If I don’t push him at least we still get on . There were no threats .
What is it with us MILs btw ? This is the relationship that seems to cause the most issues and I dont understand why ? xx

@DiamondLily do you mind me asking why your children needed to be protected from MiL ? I do have an ongoing worry that my DIL , despite there being no issue any more certainly not from me , she will continue to say the GS needs protection from me ! I had a perfectly good morning with my AS this morning, if a little superficial xx

@madgran I didn’t need your guidance today I kept calm and stayed away from difficult subjects ! This isn’t a long term strategy because it just avoids proper communication but in terms of today’s visit , well I think I handled him pretty well xx

Smileless2012

We speak from our personal experiences of our own EAC maxiepants and if we've found them to be "ungrateful, mean spirited, selfish and lacking in empathy" we say so. Just as EAC may describe the parents they've estranged, and estranged parents in law in the same way as well as saying in many cases that they are narcissists.

We don't just come here for casual updates and chats about our every day lives, although these things are just as important to share because especially at the beginning, when you're estranged you can feel that your life is over. Sharing more than our pain and suffering shows that there is a life to be lived and enjoyed, even if it isn't the life we thought we would have.

Estrangement happens for all sorts of reasons, and not just because an AC had an abusive/toxic childhood so please don't come here and seek to undermine and invalidate what others share.

No one here wants to see a parent estranged, no one knows better than those of us who have been the pain it causes, but neither do we want to see a parent being continuously verbally abused by their AC. To put themselves in a position where they'll be walking on eggshells for fear of saying or doing the 'wrong' thing because they may never see their GC, or have that relationship taken from them.

If you wish to make an accusation about "hateful strangers" on this thread SingcoTime, I suggest you name those you are referring too and quote what you consider to be hateful. The only poster I've seen refer to hate/hateful people on this thread, is you.

You're right of course DL that this thread has always been about support. It has supported many over the years, and will continue to do so.

@Smiles well today was better . Better in the sense that I am policing myself though , maybe not quite walking on eggshells but there are lots of topics that are off - topic. Whenever my AS veered towards something that was a bit more “ heavy “ then his tone of voice changed and I could see that it might lead to abuse etc . I’m not entirely sure why we can’t freely communicate at the moment- maybe it’s stress who knows , maybe with the baby coming soon , he feels the need to have a relationship with me that’s not as close as before because his family comes first . I don’t know , but I will welcome an interaction with him where I don’t have to tolerate swearing and anger . How long this more superficial type of conversation will go on for is anyone’s guess - maybe I will have to accept that this is how our lives will be from now on .
I’m certain this is in part because my partner is no longer here . We previously would have chatted as opposed to having conversations about the state of our relationship. Maybe I need to accept that he’s not a replacement for my DP and will not be able to offer me the emotional support I quite clearly have needed . I’m not saying this has been my fault because it certainly has not - but grieving has changed me and I’ve needed something from my son and his wife that they feel unable to give . That’s a pity .
What you say , Smiles about EAC implying all EPs are toxic narcissistic selfish individuals is a convenient excuse for estrangement I will always believe this . I will never believe it’s acceptable to toss away a perfectly good , caring parent or GP simply because they are not wanted any more , maybe inconvenient or too “ difficult “ . AC are difficult. Mine is very difficult at the moment despite the temporary thawing of tensions of late . For example, I’ve skirted around the subject of the GS , talking about him in terms as if he is a casual acquaintance, not my own grandchild . I’ve not even gone there trying to explore whether or not I’ll be allowed to meet this child . This is something that’s really important of course - I need to know where I stand . Am I part of his life or not .
After today’s conversation I’d still say my AS is “ ungrateful, lacking in empathy and selfish “ because I feel that the foundation is laid for life always being on his terms. Only time will tell . Of course, if things continue as they have done today , I would have every right to now question why a relationship with my GS should not be possible. There is no way my DIL could ever accuse me of stressing her out for example, based on today . So I’ll carry on with this sort of conversation.
He did actually say that he thought by now I’d have learned to be self sufficient, live happily without my partner knowing that his OWN time will be limited for me ! A prime example of selfishness there but I chose not to point it out .
I suppose what I’m trying to say is will I be happy with a life where I have a superficial relationship with little support from my AS ? Well , no not really , it isn’t what I deserve actually. I’m not pushing for more at this time purely because I want to get back to getting along , without pushing him away . I’d like to think that , in time , after we get back to being ok with each other , both my AS and DiL will feel they want to spend more time with me . They want to actually do things for me rather than being do selfish. Hopefully being parents will show them how difficult it is to have someone totally reliant on you . We briefly touched in what he will do when he takes a month off following the birth of the child . He wouldn’t be drawn on this at this stage - maybe I won’t see him for a month, won’t see him or the child then I will be making some tough decisions to protect myself. I’m not going to live my life seeing my son once a month when he lives 10 minutes down the road - I don’t think that’s acceptable long term.
So lots to think about and weigh up . I do know that ultimately my son and his wife will not be wanting to spend the amount of time with me that I would like , so we are not out of the woods yet .

Also , it’s nice seeing what everyone gets up to . It’s important to realise that there is life after estrangement and that nothing in life is guaranteed, especially a relationship with your child . Managing expectations with my son in this way is certainly something I had never prepared myself for . I feel a little lost .

You did DL and despite that, are able to acknowledge that not all m's.i.l. need to be kept from their GC to protect them and that's really important.

I don't judge all EAC based on my experience and I don't judge other EP's or those fearing estrangement based on my experience either.

We read what's posted and that's what we base our opinions and advice if any on.

You don't have to have had the experience of being verbally abused in order to recognise when that's happening to someone else.

Oooh that does sound positive Ladysu .

Ladysuisei

Better experience! Will post later - going to eat something now

I'm glad it was a better experience Ladysue

Smileless2012

Glad it's not just me then DL unless of course we both need a trip to Specsavers .

As you say there are posters who come and go and TBH the number of years this thread has been running, and the number of people who've been helped and supported and continue to be, speaks for itself.

Of course we all have boundaries. If there's an AC posting whose parents some believe are over stepping acceptable boundaries, they're more often than not told so, not least by EAC. So why shouldn't it be acceptable for EP's if they feel the advise is prudent, to do the same?

Well, as I’ve said before, I did estrange my ex MIL over 40 years ago. I needed to, to protect my (then) young children. I didn’t relent or change course. Curiously, despite a lot of fractious years between my ex and myself, he’s always agreed I did the right thing there.

There can be just cause for estrangement in all directions - but not always, So much of it seems to be about virtually nothing.

We all get it wrong sometimes. Best to just thrash it out, apologise if needed, and move on, if it’s about nothing much.

But, I’ve always took the view that I’m not putting up with abuse and threats from anyone - whoever they are.

I’m lucky with my kids, and in laws, we’ve got great relationships, but if any of them started with me, they’d be given short shrift.😉

Glad it's not just me then DL unless of course we both need a trip to Specsavers .

As you say there are posters who come and go and TBH the number of years this thread has been running, and the number of people who've been helped and supported and continue to be, speaks for itself.

Of course we all have boundaries. If there's an AC posting whose parents some believe are over stepping acceptable boundaries, they're more often than not told so, not least by EAC. So why shouldn't it be acceptable for EP's if they feel the advise is prudent, to do the same?

Better experience! Will post later - going to eat something now

@DiamondLily Miss disfunctionality lol 😂 xxx

Smileless. - well, you’ve all certainly supported me through nightmare adult stepchildren, Miss Dysfunctionality, and the loss of DH.

I actually like the daily “ramblings” of other posters, even when I wasn’t feeling up to posting, I still used to read and have a smile.🙂

I suppose Gransnet, as the name suggests, is more used by older people - many parents of adults and grandchildren, so life experiences are different, sometimes, to younger adults.

We all have boundaries over how we allow ourselves to be treated by relatives.

Mumsnet, which caters more for younger people, often has very different perspectives about estrangement.

We sometimes get new posters, supporting each other, and throwing wild accusations around. They come and they go.

The internet is like that and best taken with a pinch of salt a lot of the time.

Not sure who the hateful people are - I can’t see them. 🙄

We speak from our personal experiences of our own EAC maxiepants and if we've found them to be "ungrateful, mean spirited, selfish and lacking in empathy" we say so. Just as EAC may describe the parents they've estranged, and estranged parents in law in the same way as well as saying in many cases that they are narcissists.

We don't just come here for casual updates and chats about our every day lives, although these things are just as important to share because especially at the beginning, when you're estranged you can feel that your life is over. Sharing more than our pain and suffering shows that there is a life to be lived and enjoyed, even if it isn't the life we thought we would have.

Estrangement happens for all sorts of reasons, and not just because an AC had an abusive/toxic childhood so please don't come here and seek to undermine and invalidate what others share.

No one here wants to see a parent estranged, no one knows better than those of us who have been the pain it causes, but neither do we want to see a parent being continuously verbally abused by their AC. To put themselves in a position where they'll be walking on eggshells for fear of saying or doing the 'wrong' thing because they may never see their GC, or have that relationship taken from them.

If you wish to make an accusation about "hateful strangers" on this thread SingcoTime, I suggest you name those you are referring too and quote what you consider to be hateful. The only poster I've seen refer to hate/hateful people on this thread, is you.

You're right of course DL that this thread has always been about support. It has supported many over the years, and will continue to do so.

I was thinking the same about you, Singcotime.

@maxiepants: You give such kind, thoughtful advice!

Whiff, I hope one day you find the inner peace that so clearly escapes you. Telling a mother you have never met that her child you have never met enjoys torturing her says more about where you are in life than it does LadySu and her son. You clearly cannot get passed your own trauma to prevent it from potentially harming other's relationships. I am sorry for you.

I didn't see your deleted post, but I will just assume it was another 5-7 paragraph ramble of the same things you've posted ad nauseum on every "friendship" thread on this forum, plus some extra vitriol displaying a lack of emotional control. You said a horrible thing. I commented on it. Nothing about "you" is intimidating so I am not sure why you are hung up on my not putting your name on the post. I quoted you. You aren't a threat to me or my relationship with my children or husband. This is the internet, so I will comment as freely as I please on as many destructive, hateful comments as I please. You said a hateful thing. I really do wish you find a way past your trauma so that you will refrain from saying such horrific things to to others going forward. I cannot relate to feeling so hateful that I could say such a thing to another mother I've never met, but I have empathy for anyone who is in such a state that they would. That feeling must be torturously heavy.

LadySu, a harmonious relationship with your son can never happen if you take hateful advice from strangers. I noticed the venom toward your son and daughter in law is often heightened when you are responding to venom directed at them. Your tone changes on other threads where the advice is more compassionate. I urge you to lean into the advice that seeks reconcilliation. Not every "club" that wants you there is a good one to join. Lean into the advice that promotes positive, healthy relationships in your family. No family relationship was ever helped by leaning into the worst possible thoughts of our relatives. You may not be privy to your son and DILs pillow talk about you, but you have written proof here of a third party right here in writing saying divisive things. You know your son better than any stranger here. Don't fall into the trap of imaging the worst when you A. know the history with your child and B. know them in real life. You said yourself that this discord is relatively new. People who have loved you for 3 decades don't suddenly start "enjoying torturing" you just because a stranger on the internet you've never met says so. The relationship is in a rough patch, but it exists. Don't kill it entirely by taking bad advice.

@maxiepants I suppose because of my anxiety issues my son may accused me of micromanaging more than interfering. It was always my intention when the baby arrived to keep away from giving advice - I know the yoof of today do things differently. I’m only 59 but still , that’s ancient isn’t it .!
I’m trying so hard to get my son back on board . I know him and his wife are stressed so I’m ok with this too . I’m not an unreasonable person by any means . I love my DIL but obviously she doesn’t love me as much as I thought she did . This actually upsets me . I could go in here ………all I would like is to prevent stumbling into estrangement. The rest of life can then work itself out .

The loss of my partner was incredibly sudden and unexpected. I’m in so much shock I’m not sure I want myself back at this stage . I’m grieving so badly it’s untrue .

Ladysuisei - no matter what you say about your own mum I’m sure she struggled at least to get control of the situation going on around her - she certainly did struggle to control the situation, which is a large part of the problem, lol.

I said it in another post but want to reiterate that I'm very sorry for your loss. You are right that counselling won't bring back your partner, but it can help bring back -you-. Sometimes just talking to someone whose undivided attention you have for 50-odd minutes once or twice a week can do wonders at restoring you to balance.

@maxipants I don’t think you can speak for all EAC , only yourself. Maybe you agonised and I’m glad you did ! The reason being , no matter what you say about your own mum I’m sure she struggled at least to get control of the situation going on around her . I’m struggling immensely with dealing with my AS and his wife and welcome all advice including yours . I realise I’m acting out of desperation at this time but dealing with missing my partner’s calm wonderful presence whilst attempting to deal with a volatile son is virtually impossible. I know how many olive branches I’ve offered my son , how many things I’ve apologised for which really haven’t been my fault and also the changes I’m making to try to “ improve “ myself “ . They are numerous. This is at a time when I have to dig deep to even get out of bed because I’m struggling with deep grief . It’s all very well saying get counselling- nothing will bring my DP back and this largely feels like a pointless exercise at the moment.
So I continue to give my AS space , respect his boundaries and validate his experience of all this , but nobody is doing the same for me . I’m forgotten within this and yes , I feel angry with him ( but don’t show it ) . Hopefully you can understand the maelstrom of awful emotions I’m feeling - of course I’m fed that my son is ungrateful for what he’s putting me through. Life is about give and take and he’s all about take , take , take these days . If I don’t toe the line estrangement is a permanent threat a bit like no contact with my only GC . This does tend to cloud my judgement of the motivations of those who choose estrangement over the hard work of making a relationship successful.
I was shocked by your personal attack on Whiff , who has offered me friendship and support even though I’m quite new on here . We all deserve to be spoken to with kindness, particularly on a friendship thread .

@DiamondLily you are right in saying the loss of your partner certainly turns life upside down . My life will never be the same ever again now he’s gone and I admit I’m struggling. This is the reason for coming on here - for some advice and hopefully friendship from others who are sharing my experience. Looming estrangement is a horrible place to be and I’m hating it xxx

@Whiff - thank you for your support and your good advice on this thread. I echo what @Bridie says which is your posts are very welcome and insightful. You do speak about things you’ve experienced, not the theory. Thank you xxx

@smiles thank you for your support. I know I’m new to GN but I’ve had some really good advice and I’m seeing things from a different perspective.
It’s such a hurtful time , being told in advance of the GC’s birth that I won’t see him . I’m at a loss why this should be the case because I’m trying my best at a difficult time . I’m grieving but I don’t believe I use grief as an excuse for bad behaviour. I like this particular thread as it does offer friendship and support and sometimes that’s enough isn’t it . xxx

We offer friendship, advice and support to those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Indeed... and sometimes that advice conflicts with what seems to be the generally accepted view on this thread that EAC are ungrateful, meanspirited, selfish and lacking empathy.

Whiff, you claim I'm attacking you - I am not; I'm merely expressing my opinion of you, which you're free to disagree with. You asked if I'm an estranged parent/grandparent or estranged adult child. I'm the latter. And from my perspective and my lived experience, I was offering Ladysuisei some advice that, had my own mother taken it, would have saved our relationship. Instead she kept pushing my boundaries and claiming the distance between us was all my fault. As a result, we're estranged.

I don't want to see the same thing happen to Ladysuisei or any other parent with a rocky relationship with their child/ren, if the relationship can be mended.

No adult child estranges on a whim or without a second thought. It's a last-resort decision that we come to at the end of years or decades of agonising and attempts to fix things. We don't estrange out of spite and we don't enjoy "torturing" our parents.

To those who come to this thread for casual chats and updates about each other's lives, I'm sorry this got heavy, but there's a difference between offering support to a struggling parent and giving awful, destructive advice designed only to cause harm, and I didn't want to let the latter pass without objection.

Whiff - I think we’ve all tried to give good advice to the poster, but, obviously, we are all coming at it from our own life experiences.

Some of us have experience of AC’s/in laws behaving badly. I ushered my step children out of my life and mind after the funeral, and there they will stay. I simply don’t care what they think, do or say now.

I certainly wouldn’t have put up with anyone telling me what to do with DHs ashes.🙄

Others have experience of EPs behaving badly.

My main perspective on the OP was that she’s obviously struggling regarding the loss of her partner - and we both know how that feels, along with others on here.

It tips your whole life upside down, and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to expect ACs to try and show a little understanding.

A threatened miscarriage is also stressful, but the pregnancy seems back on track, and the child is due shortly - so all good.

Forums are a place of differing opinions, and no one’s opinion is any more valid than anyone else’s.

But, this thread has always been about pure support, and shouldn’t descend into arguments.

You and most others on here have been great support to me. Long may it continue.💐

Hope everyone has a nice day.