Friendship, advice and support if estrangement has affected your life

Hope you are ok Whiff, take care of yourself

@Smiless2012

Yes and thank you for your support on here . The situation which started all this should have been discussed at the time . You are right , we were all upset and frantic and this miscommunication has been allowed to fester . As a mother of a son yourself, you’re only too aware that we don’t get the information at the right time , leading to terrible outcomes like mine .

I will do anything to keep them in my life I suppose but at the same time , I can’t allow this abuse plus the lies and other unpleasant incidents to continue. It’s breaking me . I have felt a bit of judgment from a few replies here but I’m happy to listen to all points of view . I do think that until something like this happens to you , reserve judgment everyone . It’s horrible. I’m fed up , constantly anxious , feeling sick all day not knowing what’s going to happen. If I message my son and he doesn’t want this he tells me it’s harassment. I can’t win ! I can’t initiate any communication with him so how on earth can we get this resolved. All I want is to keep my family intact and have some sort of relationship with my grandson. These are normal things to want aren’t they ? When we don’t have them it’s heartbreaking.
Like you , my son was a delightful baby , child , even a good teenager (!) then he was a wonderful son until this pregnancy came into the equation. It wasn’t the loss of my partner that set this off but the pregnancy. I’ve held out hope that once the child arrived things would be resolved but I’m beginning to fear that won’t be the case .
I feel frightened and upset all the time at the moment and you are right . Until it happens to you , there’s absolutely no way to understand this xx

Ladysuisei

There are a couple of things that stand out to me as being a bit concerning.

1. You say that you feel that you should all come together to grieve. It may be the case that they do not feel the same way. Everyone grieves differently. This may be a case of mismatched expectations.

2. You are concerned that this estrangement will break you. While estrangement can absolutely be devastating, I think it's important to keep things in perspective. It's not healthy to pin all of your happiness on the actions of another person. I'd strongly recommend that you take the advice of your sister and find other ways to channel your energy.

@agnurse
Well with the grief : at first we did share our grief . My son did anyway. My partner was his stepdad right through his childhood and up to age 30. We came together to grieve for mum 2 years prior and this is just the way we do things . I really don’t think grief is something you ( well I ) can bear in a solitary way . I find it difficult to agree with you I’m sorry . I don’t think we have mismatched expectations.

Secondly- the loss of my son will unfortunately break me . I can’t add any more to this . I don’t know what I said re my sister but she has 2 boys and would be equally as broken should this be happening in her life . Do you mean take up a hobby or something, I don’t understand. The loss of an only child to me feels like a bereavement.

@March

Hello. Thanks for your reply . No I didn’t actually feel judged as such but you must understand how horrible this time is yourself. Goodness , I have been apologetic for months for so many things I haven’t done , so yes I would move mountains. I love my son unconditionally and I’ve always had a nice relationship with his wife . I’ve often felt she was a bit jealous of my relationship with my son - I can’t understand this at all there’s no reason why. I know that I need to ensure our relationship is mended in order to have a relationship with my grandson. So long as I feel they won’t keep hurting me , then I will be absolutely delighted to put all this hurt behind me . I will need to ensure they can be trusted though because I’ve been under threat for months . Yes life is really unfair. Baz died totally unexpected and it was sudden and happened in a doctors appointment for something non serious ( we thought ) . I have been deeply affected by his loss - I love him so much .
Well the meds I’m on are mood stabilisers but they are stabilising me just really low . They are horrible. I’ve reported having dark thoughts and feeling extremely physically unwell on them so I’m coming off them on my own . This isn’t the best , but I feel so ill , I worry about what they’re doing to me . I don’t need this type of medication, I need an antidepressant, but they dish out any old drug which just isn’t right .

@Yogi
I’m so sorry you suffered this humiliation at court , as well as the heartbreak.. As you say @Smiless2012 did the opposite but you both arrive at the same destination. That shows I suppose that grandparents really cannot win . If your EAC is determined, then you’ll lose out whatever. I’m disappointed in my son for the lies , for the fact that he allowed the cause of all this to fester without speaking to me about it and for not growing a backbone and asserting himself more . I’m not suggesting he’s a totally innocent party here , but he’s colluded with his wife to bully me to the point of submission. I know his wife is driving this because of certain remarks made by her mother .
I do feel out of my depth actually. I’m really not sure how to handle a rejection this huge - I’m so sensitive that I fear what my future will bring without my boy in it . We were always a team . I was a single mum who really did do the best I could . My partner was his stepdad but I took the lead . I would not attempt to fight him in court for grandparents rights , for many reasons. I don’t want the confrontation neither do I want to irreparably damage the possibility of any reconciliation. I haven’t been officially estranged yet and I would expect my son to visit me to give me his reasoning , whilst I ask him to look at me in the face . I don’t know if this will happen, but it’s the least he can do . It will give me the opportunity to weigh up his sincerity which is so important to me . That’s a value that I hold dear . I couldn’t accept this via email or text or even a phone call . He owes an explanation to my father who has always done so much for him . I would also like to say goodbye, a bit like a bereavement , as this would mark the end of this particular chapter. Also, given the hassle over his wife’s flowers I need the groundrules regarding sending gifts as I would like to continue doing this . Like @Smiles said it’s the “ never say never “ approach. Maybe I’m deluded who knows . I’m too easy to forgive people which is something I need to be careful about, irrespective of what happens. If my son remains in my life at the moment, I will treat him cautiously, which I suppose will be a strain for me . One thing I really hope for is a loving hug from my son - something which my DIL recently banned citing his right to his body autonomy.

Your medication sounds horrific Lady, I don't think those are normal side effects so I think you're definitely doing the right thing coming off them.

I do know how awful estrangement is, I was the big pregnant problem DIL in our situation, I was controlling him. I wasn't.
My husband didn't have a say. He did.
My MIL was a total Narcissist. She wasn't.

We were a bunch of hotheaded, petty, point scoring adults for months. Estranged for 6 years. Missed out on so much because my husband didn't want the agro and it was actually me, who extended the olive branch.

We reconnected, put on our big people pants, apologized, drew a line in the sand and moved on.

My replies might sound rough, and I'm sorry. I've been at the start, middle and thankfully end of it and just wanted to give you a different perspective. What we all did wrong, what didn't help, what did help and what bought us back together.

@March

Thanks for your reply . That was very interesting. I suppose it’s really easy to simply blame the non - child in my case that would also be my DIL . It’s very hard for me to understand what’s going on . She’s having a difficult pregnancy and that’s coincided with a traumatic death in our family . So we have 2 things going on here . Sometimes I do wonder what on earth has happened to my son - he’s changed and I don’t actually like the person he’s become, but I still love him . Previous to all this I had a lovely relationship with my DiL and thought the world of her - I think I still do . It’s just a case of trying to assess who I can trust . I always have been too trusting and I am easily hurt . I know my son is behaving badly and lying to me a lot .
So , like your situation maybe it’s not so clear cut . I’m absolutely devastated by being banned from seeing my grandson when this whole thing started over an incident of miscommunication that was never addressed properly. We could have nipped this in the bud months ago . What you did by offering the olive branch was incredibly kind and you were also brave making a stand against your husband. I bet your ( lucky ) MIL is so proud of you and very happy. I really hope my son doesn’t opt for estrangement but as so many have pointed out , I can’t change what someone else does . The door will be open for reconciliation because based on what you’ve done , there are sincere AC out there and we need to be open minded and trusting.
Oh yes this medication is awful ( Depakote ) . As I’m not getting the right support off my CPN , I’m coming off it on my own so I feel pretty rough . I’ve come off so many meds over the years though I know this horrible phase will pass . Then I won’t tell her what I’ve done !! Thank you for your perspective on this subject btw , very interesting x

We are all human, you react on instinct and in the moment.

We'd had of years of tit for tat, she was so incredibly hurt by us, but bypassed the hurt she inflicted. She did this, I did that, he said this, but she did that,.etc etc. He'd had enough by that point because it was like hitting your head against a brick wall.

She always texted every few weeks, and I'd say 'you going to reply?' 'no' ...
Years went by one week instead of asking him, I told him to reply cause it's been too long.
I think at that point she knew I came first, as he did with me. Team players.

I also have a fantastic relationship with my MIL now. Absolutely love the woman!

@March

I’ve been awake for hours worrying about what’s likely to happen. As well as losing my partner, having this dreadful situation with my son and DIL going on , my housing situation is dire ( I moved and just can’t settle. Missing my partner too much and I am waiting to die now . I’ve had enough.
I’m staying with my dad atm , but I don’t feel this can go on for much longer - I’m hoping the medication thing will get better then I’ll go back to the flat . Presumably alone , my son was going to help me . There’s a lot of lies being told by my son and DIL in my situation. I am desperate to try to do anything to reach out and put things right , hence the unwanted flowers. My texts get ignored, I probably send too many but I’m feeling desperate now . They block me on the phone and my son states he’s protecting his wife from me . This is so absolutely hurtful. I’ve struggled with so much miscommunication, lies , cruel comments made to me as well as cruel actions . I’m mentally exhausted. Everything I try to do to make amends is thrown back in my face and yes it’s so hurtful. I wish my DIL was like you and could let things go . She is a perpetual victim during this pregnancy, but I’m trying to be generous and overlook this . I don’t think I’ve been a victim in my grief , I’ve struggled yes , because losing him is the worst thing that’s ever happened to me . I will never get over him . It’s impossible to predict how you’ll react when the love of your life suddenly and unexpectedly drops dead . The shock is indescribable. I just wish they could both cut me a bit of slack actually and try to empathise. I’ve given up expecting support, but just a bit of understanding would be good . I cannot believe how this has unfolded . My son really does know I’m not malicious and why he should feel the need to protect his wife from me is silly . Gosh she’s got a sharp tongue and is more than capable of saying hurtful things to me . I don’t feel she needs protection. I never react when she’s been rude to me , maybe that’s the problem. I’ve been a doormat and now I’m possibly going to see the 2 of them walk out of my life after spending many months carefully building their case . I feel like I’ve been snapped by a Venus fly trap , and maybe I could have avoided this awfulness. X

I agree with you Smileless this forum is to support each other through the trials and tribulations of the horrors of this world
Take care my gn friend💕

Lady

Your DIL is having a difficult pregnancy. That needs to be your son's focus. His first responsibility is to his wife and child.

If your son has asked you not to contact him and you have continued to do so, that IS harassment. He's an adult. While it would be good, absolutely, for him to continue to have a relationship with you, your welfare cannot be his primary concern right now.

If you're continuing to contact him when he's asked you not to do so, you're demonstrating to him that you don't respect his boundaries. You're likely to drive him even further away.

@agnurse

Whilst I take fully on board what you say , I never ring either of them at their request. This week , because of a couple of things that have happened ( the cat incident which I’m trying to liaise with him re the vet fees ) and also my 83 year old father ( who my son used to be close to ) has had 2 falls , been referred to the hospital after a collapse then banging his head plus now needing testing for Alzheimer’s disease and I feel he ought to know . Am I supposed to withhold information like this which was delivered via a text which can be dealt with at his convenience, and possibly need to call him with bad news? What would you do ? I used my judgement. I sent a few messages saying reply If you can . If I don’t get a reply then I won’t chase him up . But I won’t be accused of withholding any important information regarding his grandfather. I do know the nature of my DIL’s difficulties and actually I strongly believe they’d want to know .
The other contact is a practical arrangement relating to something which he drew to my attention ie the vet bill of £700 .

I respect their boundaries- I’m not demanding conversations about trivial matters or asking for help for myself even though he’d promised a few things . I’ve had to let them go for now . Also , whilst he’s in work ( at home ) my DIL’s mother comes round to help if she’s needed . I think I’ve covered all bases . When you are in the middle of a difficult family situation, I think sensible judgement needs to be exercised.
I’m mindful of what this looks like in context of their boundaries.
I realise they want / need these boundaries but this type of thing wouldn’t have worked , say when my son was younger and needed lifts all over the place , needed to call me at the drop of a hat for all manner of things and suchlike. If I had imposed my boundaries when he needed me , then his life would have been seriously curtailed. This is something that gets forgotten within a lot of these scenarios- give and take . Now I’m not saying this applies to my son and his wife but there seems to be an awful lot of selfishness these days . It’s all very well wanting space , boundaries, body autonomy etc but what about thinking of others . Kindness seems to have gone out of the window. When you are frightened to send your son a text message for fear of being threatened with harassment, it’s a sad state of affairs. Don’t you agree ?

As sad as the situation is, it may simply be the case that your son does not have the capacity to be a major support for you right now. As I mentioned, his primary responsibility is to his wife and child. By definition that's going to take up a lot of his time and energy. There is a "spoons" analogy that many people who have chronic illnesses use that might apply here. (I am not saying your son has a chronic illness but the analogy still holds.) Your son has so many "spoons" of time, energy, and resources. Everything he does uses up some of those spoons. Once those spoons are used up, they're gone. He may not simply have the spoons available to be a major support to you right now, on top of his other responsibilities.

@agnurse

Yes it is sad because I would never expect him to compromise what he needs to do for his wife and child at my expense. Sometimes I do believe he’s doing too much , not necessarily for me . He’s got a demanding job and he does an awful lot at home . When I see him on the weekends, ( hopefully this will continue) we tend to sit and chat . I don’t ask anything of him . As I say , he’s promised to do a few important things for me which hopefully he can still do . I do actually worry about him and his commitments but I can’t do anything to help because I’m not wanted . In fact my DIL’s mother tends to go round sometimes during the daytime . Considering what needs doing at this point in time , I think my DIL has the support she needs

Have you read all Ladysuisei's posts agnurse?

I'm asking because I wonder when worrying about your wife who is experiencing a difficult and worrying pregnancy, was good reason to tell your mother she is "wicked, manipulative, selfish, a bad self centred mother who he wishes was dead. Must do better" and all of this delivered with "various expletives".

As well as the aforementioned, her d.i.l. has already told her that she wont have any contact with her GC. Should experiencing a difficult and worrying pregnancy excuse this too?

@Bonnybsnko

Yes thank you @Smiless2012 for looking out for us at difficult times

Do not agree with Agnurse. No one should walk on eggshells. Sure Lady has explored her position in depth and only she knows what to do, every situation varies as do peoples ways of dealing with it. All I would do is caution acting hastily and let the dust lie. Mistakes were made both sides and sometimes with time apart things become easier.

Bonnybanko

I agree with a cautionary approach Allsorts. Ladys has been on the receiving end of some terrible verbal abuse and IMO this needs to be addressed so that moving forward, it is not repeated.

The emotional blackmail with regard to whether or not she'll even be able to see her GC has already started and the child hasn't been born yet.

You really couldn't make up the treatment metered out to some parents/grandparents by their AC and their partners.

@Allsorts

Hi . You are right . Mistakes have been made on both sides but I don’t think I should put up with verbal abuse and all those lies . Additionally emotional blackmail is awful when you’re on the receiving end . It’s made my nerves end up in tatters not knowing where the goalposts are being shifted to next . I must admit to not really trusting my son at the moment which is so awful . I brought him up to always tell the truth which he did. Oh I don’t know - in these awful situations we find ourselves in I suppose we have to protect ourselves too don’t we and not end up as doormats .
Thanks for your comments xx

Ladysu I really feel for you, takes me back to when I was first estranged, it's overwhelming and you can think of nothing else. You did the right thing in stopping the tablets that were making you feel worse. Antidepressants are not the answer as they can't wipe away the situation that is making you feel so sad and depressed. Hatha yoga would really do you the world of good. Join a local club or private yoga studio and go at least 3 times per week and then practice at home to, it will lift your spirits no end and you'll get a fit body too, it will work, trust me.

@Yogi

You are right , it’s overwhelming me these thoughts . I have never been in any sort of difficulty like this with my son and DIL so it’s utterly terrifying. In fact , rather stupidly I was hoping they would be happy to let me rent a room in their ( huge) house as I’m going through a crisis with my housing . I’ve moved to an unsuitable flat after leaving the house I shared with my partner because after he died I kept seeing him everywhere not in a good way . This last year has been horrific and I naturally expected my boys support. He’s always had mine and my partner’s’ when he was alive . We gave him a home when he had a housing crisis at uni . It’s just what you do . It wasn’t convenient for us at the time as we’d downsized , but we accommodated my son for months . I’m in a real mess at the moment and I hoped they would help me - I think I’m in shock actually. I was intending offering them a large rent payment and staying in the attic room until I got sorted . I’m devastated by this possible estrangement, because my family will fall apart too . It will cause a complete division. So , aside from hoping we’d come together to sort out my house situation, I have the prospect of my whole family not wanting to see my son either because that’s what they want . I really don’t think he’s given this much consideration because the devastation will be massive . Sorry I’m rambling here . I don’t know what’s going on . Yes on top of this my medication hadn’t been helping . I will need to consider something like yoga I think just to control my anxiety and sadness at the moment. Thank you

I’m sorry but I think you have unreasonable expectations. They are having their first child and yet you expect to move in. You have been bereaved some time and must sort yourself out. I won’t go into detail, but I too lost my husband in awful circumstances, it was so hard yet I muddled through as we all must, you moved to the so until you sort something else out afraid you have to put up with it, it’s not their problem. The couple should be able to plan and look forward to their first child but it’s becoming all about you I’m afraid, you are indeed looking estrangement in the face. It’s not a nice place to be, sorry to be blunt but it’s not going to be a happy ending by proceeding on the path you are on.

@Allsorts

Well how dare you be so rude and cruel . How does one “ sort themselves out “ when mentally ill and struggling with the loss of a beloved partner. You certainly have strong opinions and not afraid to voice them are you . Since my loss , I’ve been hospitalised 3 times . Twice for psychological reasons and once I collapsed due to pneumonia and Acute Kidney Failure. I think that without going into detail here , you can see I’m vulnerable. Something which I’d not mentioned is that as opposed to being the new start which I craved , the house where the flat is situated is a breeding ground for antisocial behaviour and harassment towards me by some rather undesirable men . Despite reports made to the police , nothing meaningful has been done . I’m constantly frightened in my own “ home” . Given the assistance I’ve given to my son at a time when it wasn’t particularly convenient for me , I was hopeful of an attic room , temporarily, for a decent rent payment- a bit like Psycho’s mother . Perhaps you liken me to her ? No , this is not all about me because I’m not going to ask my son for this , I just dared to hope . When I was a child , my parents took in my nanny ( dads mum ) when she was ill and in another occasion they took in my dads brother to support him through a difficult divorce when his wife literally kicked him out on Xmas eve . Thankfully some of us do have family values which extend as far as kindness and selflessness. You sound as if you’ve totally bought into the throw away society which promotes chucking perfectly good parents away simply because they become a “ nuisance” . Most parents who are estranged from AC find themselves in this situation due to the shortcomings and selfishness of those children . I hold certain values and I certainly will not compromise them in case my son feels I’m a burden or not getting myself together fast enough. In any case , grief takes as long as it takes and you don’t just get yourself together spontaneously. I desperately wish my partner was here to share the load of my son’s ever increasing unreasonable behaviour towards me but sadly he isn’t . I appreciate you have an opinion, but can you try to be kind on a public forum please ,] instead of being rude and objectionable?

@Allsorts

I meant to add that in these times of housing crisis, this situation won’t be resolved possibly for a year , maybe more . The social housing waiting list is outrageous even if you are a victim of crime . Additionally, private landlords are expecting such unreasonable hoops to be jumped through, that’s if you get as far as a viewing .
Incidentally I was advised by a housing officer to move out of my house . Possibly not the best advice considering all the facts when thinking about where to live considering their remit is to look after mentally vulnerable adults at times of crisis. These people tend to be quite persuasive.