Letter to my mother

I KNOW that, !!!

I'm sorry you're upset. I am aspeaking of my own experiences and it isn't about you.

I wasn't going to respond...but you are extremely rude, do not dismiss me, that is for gransnet to decide.

Thanks for looking that up, VS. Interesting statistic!

I am very uninterested in sharing my demographics or the details of my family situation outside of my relationship with my mother, so I welcome any assumptions that make the reader most comfortable! It is hard to challenge our preconceived ideas and judgements about people, or imagine that someone older might have a different view than you. I can empathize with that difficulty, as I struggled with that at one point too.

I would challenge any EP reading this that wants to continue this discussion to consider that my situation isn't about you. Imagine that. I will repeat that as many times as necessary, with no regard for how you feel about that. And you can continue to do your thing.

This is helpful practice so thanks for the discourse, however it is intentioned.

Well that was easy, if you Google "Stand Alone prevalence of family estrangement" the majority of those who reported being estranged from a family member were aged 35 to 54

I fall within that bracket having been nearly 40 when I estranged... quite a while ago now

EACs become grandparents

That seems such a strange statement to assume we must all be younger

In my experience, many are not

Also it is never too late to seek No Contact with an abusive family member... I wonder if there are any figures out there... interesting thought, I will look into it

so you advise EAC not to be pushed into EAC only spaces helenwashpushed which was not what I was suggesting, yet expect to be able to post on an open forum and tell EP's that their thoughts, opinions and/or experiences are not welcome.

As I posted earlier, they may not be welcomed by you but may well be welcomed by others.

I don't agree that VS has "predicted the future" at all. No one's denying you or any other EAC their right to be sad, stressed or anxious, although that does appear to be the case for EP's.

I agree Bridie, the content of the OP could have been written to some EAC by their parents and saying so is neither untrue nor dismissive.

Saying it is does however dismiss what EP's say about their particular experiences and suggest that they are lying.

Rather than dismissing perfectly reasonable contributions by saying 'It's not about you' far more could be gained by EAC and EP's from listening to one another.

The threads on the estrangement forum, just like all threads on GN are for anyone who wishes to read and contribute to them.

...they think everything is about them and even when you explain it isn't, they think it should be about them. You aren't allowed to be sad or stressed or anxious around them as they will take it personally whether it is about them or not.

VS you predicted the future!

Response required or not, I will respond. That's not true at all and super dismissive. It's not about you.

Thanks for your input, however uninformed it may have been.

Helenwaspushed, I find if I substitute your title Letter to my Mother to Letter to my Child...the posts you are composing pretty much cover both types of estrangement!
What a sad situation all round.
No response required I won't be posting again.

Thanks for your opinion eddiecat78

You are obviously spending a lot of time composing your posts. Presumably you are finding this beneficial, but don't kid yourself that there are "many people" HERE that are benefitting from them. Gransnet is not your best audience if you sincerely wish to benefit others

Also, don't be chased into EAC only spaces of you can help it. There are many people who could benefit from reading your experiences on this easily accessible forum, who are considering estrangement and want the perspective of people who have made that choice.

I would like to encourage EACs to use real facts and information as representation for the 'other side' rather than the opinions of those who don't know or respect your situation. Consider the source when you read something. Your abusers get a massive benefit from twisting reality to gain sympathy for themselves. I can't think of a reason to listen to the "other side" that isn't about them and their feelings.

There are closed groups for EAC and EP's eddiecat so if someone doesn't want to here from 'the other side' for want of a better way of putting it, those groups are available.

Personally although I found a group for EP's helpful to begin with I found I was getting bogged down so left.

eddiecat78. Thank you for your opinion.

If you want to end an argument with a toxic parent or someone else being confrontational, I would recommend non-defensive phrases. I'm starting to practice these myself although I'm not speaking to my parents anymore. They do come in handy.

Directly from "Mother's Who Can't Love" by Susan Forward.

^NON-DEFENSIVE PHRASES:

Really?
I see.
I understand.
That’s interesting.
That’s your choice.
I’m sure you see it that way.
You’re entitled to your opinion.
I’m sorry you’re upset.
Let’s talk about this when you’re calmer.
Yelling and threatening aren’t going to solve anything.
This subject is off-limits.
I don’t choose to have this conversation.
Guilt peddling and playing the pity card are not going to work anymore.
I know you’re upset.
This is non-negotiable.
I don’t accept your definition of me.
No, I’m not going to do what you ask just because you insist.
I need to go now.

SETTING BOUNDARIES (POSITION STATEMENTS):

I am no longer willing to…
I am willing to…
It is no longer acceptable for you to…
I need you to…

REMEMBER TO:

Set your limits
Tell her very clearly what the new rules are
Spell out what you’ll do if she disrespects or violates them

SCRIPTS:

Q. Why are you doing this now? It never seemed to bother you before.

A. It bothered me a lot, Mom. I just never had the guts to say anything about it before. I’m no longer willing to accept…

Q. What’s gotten into you?

A. Courage and clarity, Mom. I’m not willing to overlook, excuse, pardon, or accept unacceptable behavior.

Q. Who put you up to this?

A. It’s all me, Mom. I’ve been giving this a great deal of thought, and I’m no longer willing to accept the status quo/accept things the way they are.

Q. What have I done to deserve this? Why are you punishing me?

A. Just calm down. There are some new ground rules in place and you need to hear them and take them seriously.

Q. After all I’ve done for you…

A. Mom, we’re talking about the present now. We’re two adults and our relationship isn’t healthy. I care a lot about you, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to continue this [unhealthy dynamic]. It’s not okay for me, and it doesn’t feel good. I’m sorry you’re upset.

Q. Don’t you love me anymore?

A. Mom, don’t be silly. Of course I love you. But I need you to respect my wishes.

RESPONDING TO A MOTHER WHO GOES BALLISTIC:

If you continue to insult me, I’ll end this conversation.
Stop right there. That subject is off limits.
Unless you calm down, I’m going to hang up.
From here on out, the subject of [ex. the wedding] is off-limits. It’s not okay for you to [ex. tell me who I can marry]. If the subject comes up, I’ll end the conversation. If you insult me, I’ll end the conversation or leave.
I won’t tolerate criticism of [ex. my fiancé] and I won’t talk to you anymore about [ex. the wedding].
Stop right there. Screaming and berating me isn’t going to work anymore.
Your choice is to have a civil conversation with me or no conversation at all. These are the only options, Mother. I need you to stop assaulting me. And I need you to understand that [ex. who I fall in love with and marry] is my business, not yours.^

Unless the content of a post is disrespectful, I see nothing disrespectful in anyone other than an EAC posting here.

EAC aren't the only victims of abuse or have always been abused. I'm not an EAC but am an abuse survivor.

I have no idea what you mean by my contributions showing my hand and there has certainly been nothing unkind in any of the posts I've made here.

As for moving the thread forward, the only issue I see that may prevent this from happening is a desire to make a thread on an open forum exclusive.

You do not have to engage with me, and I see you've decided not too which may help the thread to move on.

I do wonder why you chose Gransnet for your posts. You must be aware that is mainly an older audience who are more likely to be affected by being estranged by their children, than still be coming to terms with abusive parents. Perhaps I am wrong but I have the impression you are closer in age to the Mumsnet audience - if so you are more likely to find people that are sympathetic to your situation there

EAC's, there is always going to be someone who has a problem with your choices. It takes immense strength and courage to cut off a toxic parent and I'm proud of all of you who have made that decision.

Please understand that you have been fed lies about yourself your whole life by the person who was responsible for your growth and happiness. It's a huge betrayal because we are forced to make the decision but we really had no choice at all.

You broke the cycle despite the many forces trying to keep you down!

I did make this post for and about my own experiences. Of course you can share your opinion wherever you want. I'm just saying it's disrespectful. It also shows your hand I think. It is an unkind decision you're making, but it's your own. I'm going to disengage from you.

I hope we can move the thread forward as I intended when I started it. I can't control anyone but I am asking for the basic respect to let abuse victims have space.

You may not find the contributions from EP's helpful helenwaspushed but others might. If they don't they can choose to ignore them or challenge them, but as this is an open forum where EAC, EP's, those with no experience of estrangement and those who worry it may happen read and post, it is inevitable that the only ones reading and choosing to contribute will not only be those who took the decision to estrange.

There are many similarities as my previous post illustrated. Being aware of these does not undermine or invalidate the personal experiences shared here by EAC.

Of course EAC's healing is important, as is the ability of EP's to heal. We are not the parents you chose to estrange, simply EP's sharing our opinions and where we think it's relevant, our experiences too.

I will also add that our healing (EACs) is important and valid. We are not your ACs so please stop responding as of we are. If you continue to argue with recovering abuse victims it does seem a little unkind.

Your own perspective doesn't always need to be heard. It isn't about you.

Allsorts, a lot of assumptions made here. I will not answer your questions as they aren't well intentioned at all.

To everyone, I have been trying (and will keep trying) to hold this thread for abused children who did the estranging. The constant counterpoints and EP perspectives is so unhelpful. We all know it.

Some people hate you for the way other people love you that's a very powerful and insightful statement and as well as being applicable to abusive parents, also applies to the third party whose presence in a family results in estrangement.

Our ES's wife hated his close relationship with us and in particularly me. She admitted to me that she was jealous but claimed to have 'got over it'; sadly she never did.