Our DD estranged us then went off to university

Well her and the brother haven’t been treated the same however many times you say they have You didn’t encourage or help her but you are paying for the lad that’s not the same is it ? I know the finances are different then to now but with grants and loans you wouldn’t have been paying £30,000 and if you were in that much money trouble why wouldn’t she have got a grant but I think she thought ok I ll take the pressure off them and do it alone and looks like she has, just a big big shame she’s walked away from you in the process
Maybe a letter will help but do recognise how she would have felt even if that wasn’t your intention
I wonder what career she followed in the end ?

I'll add my vote to the 'send a letter' camp. What harm can it do.

Having said that, if it were my daughter I would call her, or go round to her house if I knew she'd be there. I'd want her to know that I'd done all I could to make contact and to explain.

I don't understand the tax situation, but I don't need to - it's not really the main issue, which is that you haven't seen or spoken to your daughter for five years. The estrangement might not even be about the money. In any case, if you are now in a position to offer her some money to compensate for not paying to help her through university when you paid for her brother, I think you should consider doing so, so she doesn't feel that you care more about your son.

I wish you luck in sorting things out, as it must be very difficult for you.

DogWhisperer in the 5 years have you had birthday ,mother's,father's day or Christmas cards from her if the answer is no . The she doesn't want anything thing to do with you .

Sounds harsh. But it's been 5 years seen my son cut ties with me . I haven't had a word from him since or any cards . He not only cut ties with me but all our side of the family .

While I still love my son and my 3 grandson's youngest one I don't even know his name or exact date of birth only his due date.

But I am proud of both my children. They have made their own way in the world . Their dad my husband died in 2004 in our daughter's final year at at uni . We only paid her tuition fee and gave her a small allowance a month . She took out at student loan and had worked since she was 16 . We had put aside the small allowance for our son . Because of being a widow disabled and not working didn't have to pay tution fee. He took out student loan and worked since he was 16.

Both children brought their own homes and paid for their own weddings with no help from me . Which I am very proud off.

Our children where 20 and 16 when their dad died. They told me they didn't want any inheritance when I died. My husband didn't leave them anything except his car reg. Neither children wanted it on there car . I finally sold it in thinking it was 2021 and the children had £6,000 each my daughter didn't want it but told her it was never mine in the first place as my husband left it to them in his will.
Problem getting my sons bank details. So my brother emailed him . No reply after 4 days . I got mad and text him at 4am and told him if I didn't have his details by 6pm he would not have the £6,000. He text me then at 9.30 am what hurt me he put thank you . As he had been vicious in his email to me and ended it I don't like you mom but love you.

I foolishly assumed given time he would be different. His birthday and his second sons was same date in August so I sent presents for the baby ,card ,cards for birthday. In my son's card put a short letter hoping the delivery went well and mother and baby doing well and rest of the family where well as well. Plus at the time of the email he knew I was waiting to have further heart tests as they found a problem. So I told him the result. Put in a cheque and put how it was to be spilt between him and the birthday boy and some to my oldest grandson. The day after my daughter and grandson was with me she was pregnant with her second boy.

The parcel came back all unopened and the babies presents had been crushed . Luckily all soft . I think my daughter in law had a hissy fit and crushed then there where fingers marks on the paper. And my son put in a note ' I do not want your manipulative or vindictive behaviour near me or my family ever again . Zero contact '

I have never been manipulative or vindictive in my life . I hate my in laws my father in law told me I was defective. But my husband loved his parents but didn't like them . When we where there is they started on at us we walked out but always went back the next Sunday . My father I law died in 1988.
After my husband died his mother told everyone she had no son or grandchildren and refused to go too their weddings. I hated that woman for 40 years but I looked after her for 11 years after my husband died because I don't abandon people . She was still my husband's mom ,mother in law and children's nan . It was me who sat by her beside for 15 hours the last 2 days of her life . He brother turned up once she was dead. She had me down as next of kin.

After my husband died I looked after both parents and mother in law. My mom live with me last 18 months of her life she had cancer and dementia. The children didn't want me to buy I loved my mom and couldn't put her in a home no matter how bad things got .

The children both live 100+ miles from me . Mom died in 2017. I moved to live closer to them in 2019. Which is what both couples wanted . I saw my son and his 2 eldest every week for 7 months then covid hit. But still in touch .

Last time I saw and spoke to my son was on my birthday 4 days before the email . He talked about putting paving down to make my garden safer . Told him I would get some to do it as he he worked full time had a family and still working on their house.

I never saw what was coming . But my lovely son in law said he knew something was wrong for years but wouldn't say anything because he didn't want to hurt me .

What has hurt me the most is to know my son is a cruel coward. He should have faced me . But I know he couldn't have done it.

2023 decided I am done hoping he will change his mind and feel happier. I can never forgive my son and daughter in law for this and would never trust my son ever again if he did want to contact me . He is no longer the loving caring son I had . He is a stranger . But I am no longer the mom he knew .

I am fiercely independent. But do see my daughter and family used to be weekly sometimes it is but definitely every 2 weeks . It depends on our social calendars she laughs I have a better social life than she does . But she texts everyday and when I need help she is there. All 5 of my grandsons are at school now..

But like I said at the start if you have never had any cards or contact from your daughter . Sorry a letter won't fix anything and you are strangers to eachother. You will just open yourself to abuse from her . Plus you are her parents you don't owe her any explanation.

Once children are adults then it's up to them what they do in life . The phrase I hate is the bank if mom and dad. My children have made their own lifes without help from me and no dad .

My husband and I paid for own wedding and brought our own house ourselves no help from either parents .

I hope if you do send the letter you are prepared for the results but you need to ask yourself if she does contact you will she hurt you again .

Is confusing, but then am sure there is more to this than you could explain on here.
Perhaps you are also confused.
My take on it is that of course it us about the money, this is one of the biggest reasons why families fall out. Not explaining it to her at the time is a mystery to me but perhaps even if you had she would have thought you were at fault.
Sending the letter is a good decision, but don’t be tempted to use it as a ‘why haven’t you contacted us?’ opportunity, make it all about explaining and apologising for not having explained at the time and of course about how much you love her and have missed her.
I really hope you manage to build bridges.
🙏🏾

I am sorry to be blunt but I cannot see how you're bewildered. How you wouldn't have known the repercussions of working abroad and returning I don't understand.. I would have moved heaven and earth to send her to University, it wasn't as if she was lazy and expected to be bank rolled, you didn't listen to her, you bought some furniture, and acted as guarantor for a flat, which means you could have covered it, should she not have income, so she would have worked to get through Uni.

@Allsorts
I am sorry to be blunt but I cannot see how you're bewildered. How you wouldn't have known the repercussions of working abroad and returning I don't understand.

I expect they forgot to pack a crystal ball.

Hasn't our own UK economy and taxation and legal system changed at all in the past decade?

Did you foresee Brexit? Or what Trump is doing in America right now, with global repercussions

I couldn’t bear this if it were me, I would desperately need to know why. I can’t help wondering if there is something she is hiding from you. As you said before is there a boyfriend (or even girlfriend) that she thinks you wouldn’t approve of or something else?
Have you tried to phone her, perhaps from a different number, rather than text. Have you suggested that perhaps you could meet for a coffee somewhere?
Of course the most important thing is that you keep in contact and constantly let her know that you love and miss her.
I do hope you can resolve this. My heart goes out to you.

Smileless2012

Why didn't you explain the situation to your D at the time? .

I agree!

They didn't need a crystal ball just be aware, they had a family so we will have to disagree on that point, they should not have been guarantor without funds. If it were my daughter I would try to talk to her. My daughter is estranged and I would take any chance to have made it different.

If you're going to send a letter DogWhisperer, I suggest that as well as explaining how the situation arose which meant you were unable to help her financially with university, you apologise for taking so long to do so.

The heartache of estrangement could have been avoided for her and for you, if you'd explained the situation at the time.

I just saw you are funding your son...
This is awkward.

I have no solution to this but wouldn't be able to do it as it feels unfair even though circumstances have changed.

You don't need to pay 30,000 for the course - he will get fees paid and then pay them back as he works.

I suspect that this discrepancy will be hard for her to swallow.

No solutions though.
Sorry.

The money doesn't need to be a problem. It's always been our intention to give them the same amount of Uni funding, and we can still do this, despite everything that's happened. As far as we know, DD will be spending the next year at Uni (we think she may be doing a postgrad year). We would be more than happy to give her the same amount of money we are giving our son, to spend in whatever way she chooses.

What worries me more are the emotional complications which might come with the money. We don't want DD to think we are trying to manipulate her with money (as in, "Love us and we will give you money"). On the other hand, we don't want to feel that DD might be manipulating us (as in, "Mum and Dad, I still hate you, but I'm going to pretend to love you in order to get the money, then I'm going to clear off again"). So any discussions about money would have to be done very carefully and diplomatically.

They say money can't buy you happiness and I think that's true. I think we would all be happier and still together as a family if I'd never gone abroad and earned the b****y money in the first place.

Yep that last sentence probably says it all
I don’t think you can afford to put your take on the gift if you do give it her you should put the same amount of money as you have for the boy and give it to her with a letter which simply says We have always been sad that we couldn’t help you at the time you needed it when you were 18 but our finances have now settled and this is your share now and we hope it will help….. Keep it really really simple
Then leave it she knows where you live and if she answers work on it if she’s doesn’t well that’s it but at least your conscious will be entirely free knowing you have treated them equally

I certainly understand, having gone through this. I would withdraw or have withdrawn any financial support after this. I'd be trying to get out of the flat co-sign, if at all possible. Is it possible she is gay? Many gay children move away with no explanation. Could she have been pregnant, given the child up, and never felt capable of coming back? Does her Grandmother see her? So sorry for this for your family. Achingly sad.

DogWhisperer

Hi

I started this thread in Dec 2023, a lot of people posted helpful comments and suggestions, for which I thank you, but almost two years on, I'm looking for a bit more advice.

To save you having to re-read all the previous posts, here is a summary of the story so far:

Suddenly and without warning, our DD went "no contact" in July 2020. We have tentatively reached out to her a few times since then, including sending her a birthday card and a Christmas card for the last two years (thanks for that suggestion) but received no response.

Because it happened so suddenly, we don't know for sure why it happened, but we think it was because we had some difficult discussions with her about how we were going to fund her through university. The background to that was that we had recently come back from a foreign country where we had been working, but didn't realise that the country we had come from punishes expats who leave by whacking them for enormous amounts of "departure tax" - in our case, the equivalent of £208,000 in local money. We fought the foreign tax authorities over it but couldn't win and had to hand it over. It came at the worst possible time because it was just before DD was supposed to go to Uni, so we ended up handing over what was supposed to be her Uni money and our retirement savings to the tax authorities, which pretty much cleaned us out of cash.

We never discussed the tax thing with DD, and we think (although we don't know) that DD just thought we were being mean and manipulative over money, and decided to do her own thing by claiming "irreconcilable estrangement" from us in order to claim Government grants and loans as an independent student. And to give her due credit for initiative, it worked. She got her money from the Government, we were never asked for any financial contribution, and off she went to Uni where (as far as we know) she has been ever since.

We have now had no contact from her for over five years, and we are thinking it's now time to stop trying to reach out, accept that she may never be coming back, and just let her go. But it would be tragic if all this happened as a result of a misunderstanding, because she just didn't know that we were forced to send back all her Uni money to the tax authorities. So I'm wondering whether, before we stop reaching out, I should try one last time and write her a letter explaining what happened, maybe enclosing a copy of the bank statement to prove it, saying that we respect her decision to stop contact and we are not going to try to contact her again, and wishing her all the best for the future? Or maybe we should continue sending her birthday and Christmas cards? Or maybe we should do nothing and just let go?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Well done on burying the lede for nearly five years to her and nearly two years here.

You didn't treat your daughter as an adult and give her the information to make an informed choice at the time and now you are still attempting to guilt her for her lack of information you should have given her and her brother.

I had to explain to my children that due to the fact my husband, their father died meant that they wouldn't be getting a free ride and that we needed to find scholarships and loans to get them through university.

But you are burying your head in the sand and bleating about "It wasn't my fault".

Own it.

Explain to those family members who are still in contact. Try a "Mea culpa, mea culpa maxima" .
You caused this. You treated your adult daughter as a child and now you need to put on your "Big Girl Panties" and take the responsibilities you are desperately trying to hide behind a Dalek avoiding sofa.

How did she feel about moving in 2020?

When a person estranges a parent(s), it is not about one thing.
Favoritism about your son comes strong in your posts

Forgot, she is long gone.

I would stop sending anything

I really appreciate all the help, advice and support I’ve received here and I would like to post on this thread one last time.

I sent my letter (some psychologists and counsellors call it a “letter of amends”). I gave it my best shot. I didn’t blame DD for anything or say anything critical of her in it. I apologised for not telling her about the financial difficulties we were having at the time she wanted to go to Uni (the foreign country we had come from had just stolen most of our savings). I sent her a copy of the relevant bank statement so she could see I wasn’t lying. I said that I was very proud of her getting her university place. I said that I loved her and missed her and I would be thinking of her, but that after five years of no contact, I accepted her decision to break off contact and I would not try to contact her again. It was a pretty hard letter to write and I really appreciate the help I got from some other forum members in writing it.

I got no response. Same as all the other times I have tried to reach out to her over the last five years.

I think enough is enough, I accept that I am unlikely to hear from her again, and it’s time to move on. If at some time in the future she decides to contact us, well fine, but we are not going to spend the next 30 years metaphorically sitting by the phone hoping that one day it might ring. We have our own lives to lead.

However, I am glad I sent the letter, and I would encourage anyone else in a similar position to do the same. Even if the result isn’t what you hoped for, you will feel better if you know you have done everything you could. If you don’t send the letter you will always wonder “if I had sent the letter, might my life have been different?”

Just one last thing. I am DD’s dad, not her mum. I realise that this may come as a surprise to some of you, but to be fair, I have never pretended to be anything else. So to the person who advised me to put on my “Big Girl Panties”, I would just like to say, I’m sure your suggestion was well intended but I think I’ll pass. People might get the wrong idea.

Have a great New Year.

Hello again DogWhisperer and thank you for coming back with an update. It doesn't happen very often and it's nice to know how things have panned out for the OP.

I'm glad not only that you sent the letter but also that having done so, you've felt able to take that huge and heartbreaking decision to move on with your lives without your D.

We do tend to assume all posters are women because this is Gransnet unless told otherwise. I can see why putting on a pair of 'big girl panties' didn't appeal in your case .

I'm just wondering if there was a reason why you didn't tell us you're the dad. Did you think you might get different responses if you had? No need to answer of course, just curious.

I wish you well going forward. Letting go isn't easy as I know only too well and I hope that doing so will bring you some peace and future happiness as it's done for us.

I'm just wondering if there was a reason why you didn't tell us you're the dad. Did you think you might get different responses if you had?

Just first time shyness I guess! And by the time we were on to about the 4th page of responses it just seemed easier to go with the flow.

Yes that makes sense FogWhisperer. Take care and I wish you and your wife all the best.

DigWhisperer, You and your wife have done your best but after all this time its unlikely your d will return. Everyone makes mistakes, why do children judge their parents so harshly and are never wrong. You have written, apologised and been ignored I think now you and your wife have to try to draw a line. You are lucky you have another adult child and each other so make the most of what you do have and I wish you both well

Well so far you are DigWhisperer and Fogwhisperer and a man who we thought was a women in big girl pants 🤣

There is one thing I just want to say can you be sure your daughter is at the address you are sending letters to still are you sure she’s even in the country or even alive ( I don’t mean to upset you but there can be many reasons a person doesn’t answer letters)

Bluebell, because an iPad uses auto correction and predictive text, it cannot cope with certain words, slang or made up names are but a few. If it’s a long sentence it waits until it reaches a space and will correct. Sometimes you have checked and it alters at the end of a paragraph of which you have already checked sentences. sometimes it substitutes a line with rubbish. It is annoying but I love all the other aspects of it.It cannot cope with ill for example, it does not recognise such a word. So apologises to DogWhisperer.

Mine was meant to be a light hearted comment Allsorts I saw the funny side that’s all
Don't take me too seriously I know all about autocorrect made many a faux par