Gifts to GC when estranged

I've been saying that all along, just go back and see

And your replies are not a great reflection on you I am afraid

Really!!! You are now claiming that you are caring about our family members feelings; unbelievable.

I suppose it's something that you understand that what you are voicing here is your opinion. There are pages of valid arguments against your opinion VS, you are just either unwilling or unable to see a point of view that differs to your own.

"I feel for these grandchildren though..." well if you do, it's a shame you don't have any care for their GP's too isn't it, and I've no idea why you have the temerity to apparently know what's best for our GC.

*No No No! You are so wrong, we are sending love, cards of love, no sadness .
You have a very warped view of this thread, its very controlling and sad the set way your mind works, I feel for hard heart.*

From your point of view..
But if they've asked for no contact because it's hurtful and you're ignoring all of that, because you think you know better than them, it's you with the controlling streak.

Just leave them alone, they have their reasons.

I do think the memory box is a good idea,it's their history, maybe look into Ancestry online and the DNA. It's amazing and something to leave behind that goes beyond you if that makes sense.

And how could you possibly ever know that your grandchildren won't view things the same way as me?

Because my opinion really isn't as "out there" as you seem to think...

And I haven't had a single valid argument against it... Just how horrible you think I am for caring about your own family members feelings and trying to help you ensure a favourable outcome

That's not true at all

I feel for these grandchildren though...

Good and patient posts Madgran.

We've just back from the theatre so I've been catching up and see we're still going around in ever decreasing circles, and there continue to be jibes and digs at EGP's which I wont repeat, because I'm sure I'm not the only one whose finding them increasingly tedious.

The key word here is some. Some AC estrange their parents because of how they have and continue to behave but as you say Madgran, "it's not the only reason why those choices are made".

You may not like it VS but it's true.

In 2015 Section 76 of the Serious Crime Act created the offence of controlling or coercive behaviour in an intimate or family relationship.

One would have to be incredibly naive or blinded by their own prejudice to assume or claim, that this type of behaviour is never a factor in some parents being estranged by their AC.

They weren't estranged because they're abusive. They haven't been prevented from seeing their GC because it's believed those children need to be protected because having a relationship with them would put them at risk.

So the only thing these GP's are going to leave in the memory boxes they create for their EGC is their love and I find it sad and rather disturbing that anyone would suggest otherwise.

No No No! You are so wrong, we are sending love, cards of love, no sadness .
You have a very warped view of this thread, its very controlling and sad the set way your mind works, I feel for hard heart.

Bridie22

Correct, the cards would say a message, happy / birthday / xmas, love from , how does that cross a line into potential harmful ground!!
A simple happy greeting just to let you know the GP was thinking about them...is thinking harmful now ?

Because every birthday brought you sadness didn't it? Every missed special occasion? Every milestone? You didn't stop, you remembered them on every single one of their special days and you never stopped.

They will see this in every card

You are sending reminders of your pain and sharing it with them and they will carry that pain of yours and perhaps add their own to it too

Correct, the cards would say a message, happy / birthday / xmas, love from , how does that cross a line into potential harmful ground!!
A simple happy greeting just to let you know the GP was thinking about them...is thinking harmful now ?

Madgran please could you engage in the actual conversation and what people are actually saying instead of pulling up or correcting unnecessarily

I know, which is why I said some

*Sorry, you’re wrong.
Statistics bear me out. Most abuse comes from parents and/or step parents. You may not like it, but it’s true*

That's literally the whole point of why some Adult Children choose no contact with their parents. They might not like it, but it's true

Yes it is obviously why some choose no contact with their parents. Its also why some parents choose no contact with their AC.

But it's not the only reason why those choices are made.

maddyone *Sorry, you’re wrong.
Statistics bear me out. Most abuse comes from parents and/or step parents. You may not like it, but it’s true*

VioletSky Ok so grandchildren cure abusive people? Is that what you are saying?

I am struggling to work out how you are taking what maddy has said to mean that VS. She is stating statistics regarding about where most abuse comes from. How does that in any way imply that GC cure abuse? I'm genuinely confused.

Reasonably it is exactly why there are an epidemic of estranged children isn't it

And so many of us wake up to the fact our own childhoods were not normal, when we have our own children and would never want them to feel the way we did

*Sorry, you’re wrong.
Statistics bear me out. Most abuse comes from parents and/or step parents.
You may not like it, but it’s true.*

That's literally the whole point of why some Adult Children choose no contact with their parents. They might like it, but it's true.

maddyone

Sorry, you’re wrong.
Statistics bear me out. Most abuse comes from parents and/or step parents.
You may not like it, but it’s true.

Ok so grandchildren cure abusive people?

Is that what you are saying?

maddyone

I said upthread that the most likely people to harm children are their parents and/or step parents. *

Which is why when those children are old enough they choose limited contact/no contact because of said damage.
Children don't stay Children for long.

Most abuse comes from parents and/or step parents.

Absolutely.

Sorry, you’re wrong.
Statistics bear me out. Most abuse comes from parents and/or step parents.
You may not like it, but it’s true.

maddyone

I said upthread that the most likely people to harm children are their parents and/or step parents. The statistics bear me out on this. My own experience as a teacher of young children bear me out on this. And some personal observations bear me out on this. Consequently I find it difficult to understand the tsunami, it seems, of estranged grandparents. Obviously some will be extremely dangerous to their grandchildren, but that must be a very few. As a teacher I never came across a child abused by their grandparents, but I came across a fair few who were abused by their parents and step parents. Some cases were very distressing, others less so.

There is a huge disconnect in your thinking here

Those parents become grandparents... And no magic occurs to make someone not abusive when a grandchild is born.

Abuse from parents is more apparent because the child lives with their parents, grandparents have less contact with children in general but that doesn't make them any more safe to be around

You would not leave your child alone with someone who was sexually or physically abusive and emotional abuse is just as bad and proven to cause huge amounts of harm.

So it is not possible to say that "it is mainly parents who are abusive" when those parents become grandparents

Thanks to the wealth of information online, many people are now estranging abusive family members and protecting their own children.

Many parents are still sadly abusing their own children and hopefully will be estranged one day, preferably before they become grandparents and another generation of children are exposed to them

That's how time works

The good news is that emotional abuse is becoming legally recognised as a crime and hopefully the system improves further and more children are protected

Bridie22

VS ... please explain your statement " However, sending a stack of those cards for every birthday missed does have a clear implied message that crosses a line onto potentially harmful ground ", how do you come to that assumption, validate ?

Because it is a message in itself. "Here is a record of every birthday I missed and the card I would have sent you"

I said upthread that the most likely people to harm children are their parents and/or step parents. The statistics bear me out on this. My own experience as a teacher of young children bear me out on this. And some personal observations bear me out on this. Consequently I find it difficult to understand the tsunami, it seems, of estranged grandparents. Obviously some will be extremely dangerous to their grandchildren, but that must be a very few. As a teacher I never came across a child abused by their grandparents, but I came across a fair few who were abused by their parents and step parents. Some cases were very distressing, others less so.

A big thank you to those who commented on my posts earlier in the thread. I think you will all appreciate that there is much that cannot be said on an open forum such as this, and therefore I cannot answer your caring and pertinent questions.

All I can say is the situation is very difficult. For everyone, but especially the children.

VS ... please explain your statement " However, sending a stack of those cards for every birthday missed does have a clear implied message that crosses a line onto potentially harmful ground ", how do you come to that assumption, validate ?

My point is that in some scenarios NOT doing anything can be a risk as well though, depending on the situation.

I do understand the points you are making. I don't agree that there is only one option regarding risk but so be it. People can consider both views and do as they see fit.

Thankyou for explaining your particular perspective to me.

Yes exactly, how it is received depends on the personality of the one receiving it, which is unknown... So why take that risk?

Frankly, relationships break down and no one if 100% blameless on either side of that, even if it usually leans to one side more than the other in different degrees

But there is someone who is blameless... The child/grandchild, adult or not

Why on earth anyone would want to risk their feelings, I cannot understand it but I do know it is unhealthy

There isn't a person on this planet who hasn't engaged in some sort of imperfect behaviour and any sentiment that, a single person's is and their intention will magically ensure a positive outcome is extraordinarily unhealthy