Gifts to GC when estranged

VioletSky

Depends on the mother I would guess

It takes 2 to argue

It does not "depend on the mother". The most perfect mother in the world doesn't stand a chance if a third party takes against them - for malicious reasons. As for "it takes 2 to argue" I agree with Madgran. There are lots of estranged parents who have never been involved in an argument but have been cut off without explanation. It's impossible to argue with someone who refuses to communicate with you!
If you really believe that your parenting style makes you immune to estrangement you are living in cloud cuckoo land.

VioletSky

Depends on the mother I would guess

It takes 2 to argue

But Estrangement doesnt always come from argument! It takes 2 two WANT to build a relationship in the first place, too. Each case and cause is different.

And when not everyone agrees on what boundaries someone else should be able to have, that's often when issues arise

Of course, unhealthy people generally don't ask for healthy boundaries and certainly don't respect those of others

Depends on the mother I would guess

It takes 2 to argue

VioletSky

Exactly the point I was making

I am commenting as a mother and one who understands the importance of not becoming an estranged one by learning how to have positive relationships and manage difficult ones

The vast majority of mothers understand the importance of not becoming estranged and already have positive relationships. Their ability to "manage difficult ones" will count for nothing if a third party has malicious intent

Exactly the point I was making

I am commenting as a mother and one who understands the importance of not becoming an estranged one by learning how to have positive relationships and manage difficult ones

That's our experience too eddie. Incidents aren't just stored up but grossly exaggerated when they miraculously resurface again as was the case in your example.

You must be so relieved that she's now your ex d.i.l. .

Smileless2012

Pride, badgering, making everything about them!!! It never ceases to amaze me how some posters can see things that simply aren't there.

Yes it is hard to know what to do or say maddy and regardless of how clumsily the OP may have expressed herself, it doesn't IMO say much about her son and d.i.l. that this be held against her to the extent that her son is continually verbally abusive, and she's been told she'll never see the baby.

It makes no sense either that it was months after this happened before it was decided her reaction was unforgiveable.

It's my experience that some people will store up incidents to use negatively in the future . At our son's wedding during the photos OH jokingly told DS to take his hands out of his pockets. Two years later DIL (now ex, thank god) quoted this remark as proof that we ALWAYS criticised our son. By this point DS was so stressed by her behaviour that he didn't know what to believe and several times said "I feel like I'm going mad"

That's another good idea Bonnybanko, leaving it in your will or perhaps passing it on when your GC is say 25 and old enough to be hopefully feel comfortable to accept "regardless of what his parents think".

"Just keep loving your family but steer well clear" sound advice .

Smileless2012

As far as I know we are all mothers VS and commenting as such and those who are also GP's are commenting as GP's too.

Just keep loving your family but steer well clear 💕💕💕

Perhaps they’ll come round

So sorry to hear that ladyS I know it must be so hurtful but what you can do perhaps is put money aside for your grandson and give it to him on his 18th birthday with a short note explaining the circumstances he’ll thank you for that, regardless of what his parents think. Good luck

Pride, badgering, making everything about them!!! It never ceases to amaze me how some posters can see things that simply aren't there.

Yes it is hard to know what to do or say maddy and regardless of how clumsily the OP may have expressed herself, it doesn't IMO say much about her son and d.i.l. that this be held against her to the extent that her son is continually verbally abusive, and she's been told she'll never see the baby.

It makes no sense either that it was months after this happened before it was decided her reaction was unforgiveable.

I think under those circumstances I would have said something along the lines of oh my goodness, I didn’t know, I’m so sorry. Is there anything I can do.

I remember very well when my daughter had both her miscarriages. I tried to help. It was very, very sad, and hard to know what to do or say, except to sympathise and hug her and love her.

Badgering a prospective parent potentially on the cusp of losing their unborn child in the moment it is happening--as if your feelings about it mattered as much as the actual parents--is about as self-centered as it gets. After all, it's not terribly hard in such moments to realize it wasn't the time or the place. Most mums would swallow their pride and gently address it later if at all. Minimizing it or doubling down is horrible. It's really not that hard to simply say nothing at all if you are incapable of being supportive. Feelings are one thing, but to not have a filter in such a moment is a different problem all together. That is telling them that no matter what they were going through, they needed to prioritize LadySu's feelings first and foremost. That's not motherly. That's not decent. No one wants to go through a pregnancy with someone around who doesn't realize that not everything is about themselves. It's stressful enough on its own. The son has offered to keep contact. What harm could possibly come of the OP just taking a step back and respecting boundaries?

Good grief!
Do we know how far along she was in her pregnancy?
I suppose if it was just a few weeks, it may have been understandable that she wasn’t told, as many people don’t like to tell until the first three months have gone by. However I would have thought close relatives, such as a mother, would know. How on earth can anyone give support and empathy in the event of a miscarriage if they don’t even know?

It sounds like a ridiculous over reaction from DiL to me!
But what do I know?
I’ve only ever had to deal with real abuse in the family!

maddy last August the OP was taken to hospital by her d.i.l. and sons m.i.l. because she was feeling quite unwell. While there, her d.i.l. kept going to the toilet and then rushed over to the reception. She asked her d.i.l's mother what was wrong and was told her d.i.l. was pregnant, was bleeding and they were worried she might lose the baby.

The OP hadn't known she was pregnant so was obviously shocked at the news and worried. When her son arrived she asked him why she hadn't been told.

This is the unforgiveable act of an unwell, shocked and upset mother.

As far as I know we are all mothers VS and commenting as such and those who are also GP's are commenting as GP's too.

why didn’t you tell me

Is that the crime?
Good grief, I can barely believe it.
I asked my daughter that question about a much more serious allegation than that!

Grams2five thank you for your limited explanation. I didn’t know anything about this poster (to my recollection) and so I don’t know her backstory. Obviously there’s more to it than I actually understand. Nonetheless she must be hurting and therefore I think she deserves some compassion, something some posters show little of. I don’t know what happened over the threatened miscarriage. Are you saying Ladysu lacked compassion or did/said something out of order? To be honest, I’m very much a peacemaker and would therefore suggest that perhaps all parties involved sit down and try to calmly talk this through.

I have to say this didn’t work long term with my ex SiL. We did sit down several times with him and try to broker peace, but long term he didn’t want peace. He is a very controlling person and I cannot put on this thread all the things that happened, but suffice to say, he wanted complete control of our daughter and his behaviour has been abusive towards her in my and other’s opinions. We are trying to support our daughter which presents difficulties as she was eventually persuaded to go to live in New Zealand with him. Of course the house of cards fell down then and she finally left him. We spend time with her here in NZ each year, and the situation is rumbling on.
I just deleted a crucial line which would have aided understanding, but thought it best not to put on here. I acknowledge the difficulty in full understanding when we are limited in what is safe to disclose.

I cannot say that advice to take an unhealthy action is healthy when it isn't

I cannot say nothing when a mother is losing her relationship with her son and I don't want to see that happen

OP is a mother, I am also a mother

I am not defined by my estrangement and really, being a mother does not define me either... But being a mother is of huge importance to me and like anyone else, I am surrounded by a circle of other mothers, each with different stories and lessons learned the hard way

So here we are.

I may read this forum because yes, I am estranged but I don't really need to talk about it anymore I am commenting as a mother

What's selfish and inappropriate when being told that there are concerns over your d.i.l's pregnancy, a pregnancy you knew nothing about, you say to your son "why didn't you tell me"? It's what I'm sure would be the initial response from many a shocked mother.

If this was such a terrible thing to have said last August, why had the relationship gone on as before until Christmas? Why is it only recently that her son and his wife have decided to find this unforgiveable?

This is not the reason, if it were this would have started then so when she says she doesn't know, she doesn't know and just because you think you know Grams2five doesn't mean you do.

Correct this forum is for all of us I agree, I do not need you telling me my actions are unhealthy, you speak from a different perspective not being an estranged grandparent, totally different scenario to your estrangement of a parent.

maddyone

No Bridie VS has said on Gransnet that she’s the estranger. She may very well have good reasons, but that’s why she’s always so supportive of the estranger, not the estranged.

No that's not true, I just feel people need to know when certain behaviours are unhealthy. It doesn't matter what their situation is or who estranged who.

As I keep reminding people, I estranged my mother but others in my family estranged me. I have also experienced alienation from a parent and a grandparent.

So my views come from many perspectives...

It isn't right to try to colour others opinions of me by stating otherwise... Unless you want to achieve silencing of perspectives that may save relationships or future harm... Which I hope you would not.

This forum is for all of us

Lack of compassion is one thing but it doesn't have to be expressed nastily which is sometimes the case, but maybe that says something about those who do respond in that way.

"vindictive family breakdown" that's an interesting observation maddy. Families do breakdown but is it necessary for the process to be carried out in a vindictive way and/or to create the rift, the breakdown purely out of vindictiveness?

Yes I do know something of what you went through with your mum, to say it wasn't easy would be an understatement especially toward the end. Now you have the awful situation with your ex s.i.l. and all the worry for your DD and GC.

I wish there were more compassion in the world too and when it's lacking that there'd be more of not saying anything, if you can't say nothing nice.