Gifts to GC when estranged

Ladysuisei

@grams2five who on earth is keeping score …

What I meant was don’t spend time worrying over how much her mum is involved. Whether her mother gets to be there after delivery , when she’s invited how much time she spends with them ( especially in those early days right after birth) It’s not relevant. And it’s none of your business. Given the situation , if you’re allowed back in so to speak, a chance to have a relationship with all of them again / it may well be after that time
Period. It may well be her mum is there sooner and more frequently , especially given all that’s been going on but even if it hadn’t. It matters not. And “keeping score “ on whether you’re being treated “fairly “ only ends in hard feelings. Worry only about your own relationship with your son and his family and remember that their relationship with her mim has no bearing on yours.

It doesn't matter, he should be doing his share of household chores, I really respect him for that

Ladysuisei

@VS his wife isn’t working, they don’t currently have a child…………
I noticed he is very tired and stressed - he’s doing a very stressful job too . What’s wrong with this ?

His wife might be unwell. It’s unlikely you are getting the full story from her mother.

How they manage their family is naught to do with you. Please don’t turn it into a stick to beat your DIL with.

Re: keeping score, it appears you are. Constantly mentioning the maternal side knew about the pregnancy and is more involved.

Stop getting information from DILs mother. It only seems to upset you.

I know you say you aren’t overly interested in DBT, but I’m adding my voice to that chorus. I sincerely think it would help you save these relationships, especially that between you and your son

Ladysuisei

@VS his wife isn’t working, they don’t currently have a child…………
I noticed he is very tired and stressed - he’s doing a very stressful job too . What’s wrong with this ?

Absolutely nothing is wrong with this. He's a man with a pregnant wife and a career. This is very normal and expected. He is also a man dealing with a stressful conflict with his mother. Please be careful with assumptions of how their little family should function, and the division of duties. I have noticed that many new grandmothers misstep by comparing the normal practices of their day to what modern young families look like today, and far too often it is the mother of the man who complains that her child is tired or doing too much for the family he created. Women have been holding down jobs and raising families, sometimes alone, and no one bats an eyelash. Your son being a male does not make him incapable of doing the same. Please do not infantilism him. He is a big boy now. He is showing you as much by prioritizing his wife, as he should.

He will no doubt be changing diapers, giving his wife a necessary break from being with the baby all day, cooking, cleaning, and doing all the things some generations tend to think is "woman's work". None of it is woman's work. It's simply taking care of one's family. Please mindful of any judgements you may utter, as this tends to inflame conflicts with grandparents. The way young couple's run their families looks very different to 30 years ago and there is nothing wrong with the change. Nothing at all. It's good that you share these thoughts here and not with your son! This is very wise of you!

@VS I notice you say contribute. At the moment my son is doing everything. His choice I suppose but nevertheless no wonder he’s full of stress .

@Josie yes I’m aware of the 2 weeks but that’s all they tend to get paid for , so he needs to bring in the ££££

@grams2five who on earth is keeping score …

@VS his wife isn’t working, they don’t currently have a child…………
I noticed he is very tired and stressed - he’s doing a very stressful job too . What’s wrong with this ?

SingcoTime

"I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me. He's lashed out and awful lot to protect what he has in life. We lost our way. I'm sure we can come back from this."

This is great self-reflection! Definitely progress. I too think you both can recover from this. I think it will help tremendously if you lean into those statements, and manage your expectations for after the baby comes. Keep in mind that it will be a high-stress, sensitive time after birth and your son may have even less time to reach out to you. It won't mean he doesn't love you. It won't mean he and his wife are evil and selfish. They will be busy and sleep deprived, so it is best to keep conversations light on a constant basis. It will be a time where you will put your needs and wants to the side even more until they adjust to their new family. The best way to show love and support to new parents is to refrain from adding any additional stress. Best of luck!

All of this. And don’t keep score abo her mother. It may well be she wants her mother around soon after delivery and post partum time etc. it’s a vulnerable time die a new mother - so best course of action is not to lay mind or care about her mother. It’s not a competition to score grandchild points on and nothing is more stressful than grandchildren keeping tabs and demanding “fair play”. Be grateful for whatever uour relationship is and not bother about anyone else’s

Oh gosh, if working and cooking dinner is too much...

I don't know how I survive as a working mother of 5 lol

It's not too much to take care of your household and family and these days men are expected to contribute to both, rightfully so

Ladysuisie it is now very common for men to take 2 weeks sometimes more of paternal leave when they have a baby. So common in fact it eould be very strange if a new Dad didn’t do this. There is even an option if doing shared parental leave wih the mum where men can take longer, though I’m not sure how many actually do this xx

@March omg !!!
Mind you when I was in labour 30 years ago , because I had serious complications, I was I a special delivery suite with a relatives room next door . Well it was filled with my family . Mum , dad , sister , brother in law and my ex husband popped in and out giving updates . It did go pretty pear shaped, so my labour ended with the surgery doctors running down the corridor with the bed ( me in it obvs) into theatre for emergency surgery. My son got stuck and we nearly died . My family stayed overnight until I was out of surgery and no longer in danger. My son went into special care - he was allowed visitors , so my family saw him and I was left alone with my husband. They were a pretty hands on family 😂😂

Actually my MiL wasn’t there because she lived away . A real family affair that . I didn’t have any more after this .
On a more serious note , I have felt a low level of anxiety right through my DIL’s pregnancy just incase she has a large baby who also gets stuck . I’ve not mentioned my fears to them obviously. This last few months have been dreadful. So , if anything, this particular MiL will only be interested to know the baby has arrived safely . No phone calls . No checking up . Just the result .

@DiamondLily
Well I say stress because I don’t know otherwise, but when I see him he’s looking so tired . Now he has an incredibly demanding technical job where he has to use his brain all day 😬 he does work from home but long hours .
I’m aware that my DIL is having a “ difficult “ time . Don’t know what this means but I have my thoughts.
My son finishes work around half 6 maybe 7 . He then cooks dinner and clears up . He’s looking after his wife .
So actually I think he’s doing too much . I’ve not said this obviously because I’m not going to offer any opinions unless asked EVER !
I will keep the conversation light for the time being. He declined any offer of a more meaningful conversation so I will leave this now unless he asks me to talk . Maybe after the baby , things may just settle down who knows , but I’m aware that his plan is to look after the baby for the first few weeks. He’s off work - I don’t understand what’s going on . When I had my son , my ex husband went back to work the day after . I had support off my mum for a while , but largely I was on my own coping and I had an emergency c/ section after horrendous complications.
My son’s situation is quite strange I feel but I’m not asking about it xxx

@march yes I feel we have made progress. Estrangement and impending estrangement is horrible. It’s surprising just how easily a situation becomes out of your control too .

Yes the circumstances of this last year have been a recipe for disaster. I’ve struggled immensely with my partner’s sudden death . He was my everything. A beautiful person inside and out, he was funny , kind , thoughtful, but most importantly he kept me level headed too . This sort of fall out during my DILs pregnancy would not have escalated had he been here by my side .
I have relied heavily on my son which has caused an issue with his wife .
Definitely mismatched expectations going on ! I have to now work very hard at living independently with my cat for company and accept the situation as it is .

There has been so much emotion rolling around. Grief is so unpredictable and I think my son expected me to follow a set pattern . Unfortunately it’s messy and doesn’t follow a set pattern does it ? Also pregnancy- all those hormones, combined with the stress and worry of a threatened miscarriage has caused difficulties for my DIL I know . Normally, we all got on so well but this has been a really testing time .

I think avoiding heavy subjects for a while will be the way forward together with the occasional text to see how they’re doing and this may help matters.
I’m seeing him again next Sunday at my dads where I’m staying until hopefully I move into a nicer flat 😊

I’m not sure why expecting a child should cause him this much stress, but it obviously is.

Possibly his mother? Maybe? Just cause it's an estrangement thread I'm going to throw my experience in.

My MIL (not at the time) text my husband (not at the time)
while I was in fully established labour, the full on works...he didn't reply obviously.

She rang the hospital for an update on me, they couldn't give out my medical information, she than rang him and left voicemails and texts because he wouldn't answer her.

Only saw them when he rang to say she was here.

I'm not saying this is Lady in any shape or form.
Mr March was very stressed and not by me!

Ladysuisei

@March - it’s my AS who argues and me who wants the “ heavy “ conversations!!
Never mind . Anyway, once I’d given him the opportunity for a more meaningful conversation that was declined I thought right it’s plan B . My plan B is neutral, conversation chatting about life etc .,we discussed his work , my upcoming move , we talked about the baby but in general terms ( this wasn’t the nasty no you’re not seeing him response either ?) and he stayed 2 1/2 hours and went home . I miss him and will do whatever I can to repair this . He doesn’t want estrangement I can see this - we’ve made arrangements for next week and he messaged me about the move earlier . He’s very stressed understandably, I have told him they’re going to be great parents what more can I do . Hopefully you can see I’m not the mother ( and MIL ) from hell , just someone whose life has gone totally pear shaped through circumstance. I’m sure when my DP was alive , we all had good , funny conversations but it’s hard to remember the good times just yet . I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me . He’s lashed out an awful lot to protect what he has in life . We lost our way . I’m sure we can come back from this . I’m fully expecting his wife’s mother to be involved with the baby before I am . I just hope I will in fact have this precious relationship in my life because as things stand there’s no reason why I shouldn’t.

Keep it light, keep it cheerful, and he gets heavy, just suggest you leave things for a few days and talk later.

I’m not sure why expecting a child should cause him this much stress, but it obviously is.

For what it’s worth, daughters do usually gravitate towards their own mothers before their MILs - all quite normal.

Don’t be bullied, don’t get heavy, just be laid back and cheerful. 😉

"I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me. He's lashed out and awful lot to protect what he has in life. We lost our way. I'm sure we can come back from this."

This is great self-reflection! Definitely progress. I too think you both can recover from this. I think it will help tremendously if you lean into those statements, and manage your expectations for after the baby comes. Keep in mind that it will be a high-stress, sensitive time after birth and your son may have even less time to reach out to you. It won't mean he doesn't love you. It won't mean he and his wife are evil and selfish. They will be busy and sleep deprived, so it is best to keep conversations light on a constant basis. It will be a time where you will put your needs and wants to the side even more until they adjust to their new family. The best way to show love and support to new parents is to refrain from adding any additional stress. Best of luck!

Lady that's absolutely fantastic, I'm so happy for you! It sounds like you've both making progress.

No one wants estrangement, it's horrendous for both sides, please believe me.

I don't think you're the mother in law from hell at all.
You said this was all new and unexpected, I think it's circumstances and mismatched expectations that's all.

I think you've been through a lot and you're continuing to go through it.

You're hurting, your son and DIL are going through it too and it's just not a good mix is it? So much emotion rolling round.

Do you text your son? Maybe a text once a week just checking in, making sure they are all ok and here if you anything? Just a suggestion. Might be nice to hear as a mom to son.

@March - it’s my AS who argues and me who wants the “ heavy “ conversations!!
Never mind . Anyway, once I’d given him the opportunity for a more meaningful conversation that was declined I thought right it’s plan B . My plan B is neutral, conversation chatting about life etc .,we discussed his work , my upcoming move , we talked about the baby but in general terms ( this wasn’t the nasty no you’re not seeing him response either ?) and he stayed 2 1/2 hours and went home . I miss him and will do whatever I can to repair this . He doesn’t want estrangement I can see this - we’ve made arrangements for next week and he messaged me about the move earlier . He’s very stressed understandably, I have told him they’re going to be great parents what more can I do . Hopefully you can see I’m not the mother ( and MIL ) from hell , just someone whose life has gone totally pear shaped through circumstance. I’m sure when my DP was alive , we all had good , funny conversations but it’s hard to remember the good times just yet . I might have been relying on my son for emotional support he was unable to give me . He’s lashed out an awful lot to protect what he has in life . We lost our way . I’m sure we can come back from this . I’m fully expecting his wife’s mother to be involved with the baby before I am . I just hope I will in fact have this precious relationship in my life because as things stand there’s no reason why I shouldn’t.

Ladysuisei I think you need to ask yourself why they didn't tell you...

Sorry but your reaction to the way you were told isn't healthy, it's very focused on your needs and feelings and not considering how others felt at a stressful worrying time... And you haven't let that go months later or realised that either...

A lot of people would have had very different reactions than you did and would have thought solely about the mother and how terrified she must have been

Ladysuisei

@maddieone back in the day I shared the news of my pregnancy straight away with my parents, sister and BIL . On the same day I made sure my now ex husband rang his mother so she was told as well . To have excused her when my whole family knew would have been very unkind and extremely selfish in my opinion.

That's your opinion and that's fine. Doesn't mean that people who choose differently are selfish or unkind. We don't all have to make the same choices. Be careful assigning negative value judgements to choices that are simply different from our own. It could be a barrier in resolving conflict with your son and Dil if let it slip that you expect their choices to more closely mirror yours. They are a separate entity with separate lives. Adult offspring are not merely extensions of their parents.

It is excellent to read about your day going better with your son, since you respected his right to not engage in emotionally draining conversation. It shows respect for his feelings. It shows you care about more than just what you want our of the relationship. This is progress. Keept it up!

Anyway , when being given the news in A&E that a threatened miscarriage was happening, it would have been nice had her mum taken me quietly to one side to tell me , so it wouldn’t have seemed so shocking

Her mother knew about this pregnancy, her daughter was bleeding and possible miscarriage. Her first thought wasn't going to be you, it would of been her daughter and what she was going through.

@violetSky
Actually I do respect my DIL’s decision not to speak about her pregnancy until she was 12 weeks. What’s difficult about this is that her WHOLE FAMILY were aware yet they hadn’t mentioned it to me . So that’s her mother’s boyfriend, her sister her brother too I think . Anyway , when being given the news in A&E that a threatened miscarriage was happening, it would have been nice had her mum taken me quietly to one side to tell me , so it wouldn’t have seemed so shocking . To be told in a crowded and noisy waiting room meant the whole situation was surreal actually. There was all this noise going on in the background, me with intense kidney pain unable to sit down , some man being rushed to resuss having a suspected heart attack, then casually being told ….. ‘s bleeding she’s 11 weeks pregnant. Call me insensitive, but under these circumstances, I think anyone would have reacted badly to this news

ladysuisei I am glad it went well today

I think there is no point going into heavy conversation until you are able to see how your own behaviour has impacted the situation

You need to be able to meet your son in the middle

He is still coming so he is still trying

It's your turn now to try and be a mother that is welcomed in to their lives too

Lady, that's a really good step!
He's told you that he's fed up of heavy conversations and the arguments. Aren't you too?
Please draw a line in the sand, keep every reply light and breezy. Take a deep breath. Remember it's not all about how you feel or how you would done things.

This is just a heads up from experience, because of how everything has played out, you might not know about the birth the second is happens, they might want a few days without visitors, her mom might be more included than you at this time.

I cannot stress this enough, please don't start any arguments, don't add anymore stress. They will remember how you acted and how your DIL was treated in the first few weeks.

Please listen to replies that are trying to help you before it's too late.