Gifts to GC when estranged

Well yes definitely preferable to "hateful awful people undeserving of knowing you".

Children do need to be taught about unsafe people

Too many adults out there are unsafe

Indeed. I remember talking to our boys about not talking too/going with strangers and our ES who was about 6 at the time asked if they're like the Child Catcher from Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.

I said yes, but the the trouble is they don't look like him, they look just like everyone else.

Such a difficult subject to address as the last thing you want to do is frighten them.

VioletSky

Children do need to be taught about unsafe people

Too many adults out there are unsafe

I agree VS. And there are a range of variations on unsafe from the stranger danger you mentioned Smileless to the emotionally unsafe manipulators who might use children for their own ends. Turning people against each other for example for their own ends which can happen in families and in a wider context in any group situation.

Helping children to be discerning about what is said to them and whether it really makes sense/ matches their own experience etc. is an important part of that isn't it.

I believe in helping children (and adults) to follow and trust their instincts as part of that process; we all have a sense that can "scream" at us but it's so easy for it to be squashed out of children and to not use it as an adult for the sake of "politeness"; a relationship to hang on to or whatever.

Of course all of the above will vary in practice ensuring that it is age appropriate but the younger it starts the better.

It's a pity that it is a necessary part of parenting though.

As I said, it is always appropriate to tell children age appropriate truth about people who are unsafe

In this context I agree VS.

The context makes no difference, children have the right to remain free from harm.

Children should always be told age appropriate truth about any adult that is unsafe, including family members

I've said I agree with you in this context VS but this context isn't about EGP's leaving their GC memory boxes.

On this particular issue we are not going to agree so let's leave it there shall we.

Depends if the contents of the memory box are safe or not

Passing on heirlooms and photos is fine

Passing on messages about how the grandparent felt on someone's special day is not

For goodness sake VS why can't you just accept that not everyone agrees with you, and that your constant jibes at EGP's about 'harm' and 'being unsafe' are as tiresome as they are offensive.

Because it is the truth

That sort of message is harmful and people need to know that if their desired outcome is not to hurt their own grandchild

It is also to the benefit of the person sending it to ensure what is received is seen as positive and not negative

So really quite helpful advice

I'm sure we are all quite capable of knowing what will or not be harmful to our GC without the benefit of your 'wisdom' VS. I know I am.

It is very baffling because, you are all upset that your grandchild has been taken away, and that the parent has likely said things about you to said grandchild that you deem unfair...

So why would you in turn do something that risks solidifying what your estranged adult child may have said?

Are opinions worth that? I'm not so sure

Especially when the grandchild is the one who has to receive it and deal with the feelings it evokes

VioletSky

As I said, it is always appropriate to tell children age appropriate truth about people who are unsafe

Well yes and I was agreeing with you!

Passing on messages about how the grandparent felt on someone's special day is not

I'm pondering ...Does a birthday card, for instance, do that?

Assuming it doesn't contain inappropriate comments etc about family members or whatever.

Especially when the grandchild is the one who has to receive it and deal with the feelings it evokes

Ah just seen your last comment ...so you feel that receiving the memory box cards etc might evoke difficult and/or painful feelings for the GC to deal with? I think that is what you mean but want to be sure that I have not misunderstood

I have already answered that but yes it does depend what is written inside if you were sending those cards yearly

However, sending a stack of those cards for every birthday missed does have a clear implied message that crosses a line onto potentially harmful ground

And it's not good either way I am afraid, positive or negative if this memory box is in the will their is nothing that poor grandchild can do to feel better

There are even grandparents out there, who would send such a thing in the hope it would make their grandchild angry or upset with their parents for taking away that relationship and that is thinking no-one should want to emulate

I have already answered that but yes it does depend what is written inside if you were sending those cards yearly

Oh sorry I missed that you have already said that

There are even grandparents out there, who would send such a thing in the hope it would make their grandchild angry or upset with their parents for taking away that relationship and that is thinking no-one should want to emulate

No noone would I imagine, if that was the case. But that isnt the motivation of all grandparents is it. Has that been expressed on this thread..If it has I have missed that as well.

I'm not sure about the implied message ...each case will be different in terms of the personalities of the people involved; how the Estrangement happened; relationships between GC/GP prior to estrangement; what has been said to them etc etc.

The responses, feelings and so on will differ because of all those things and more. On that basis I think there could be potential risk in NOT leaving something.

In the end individuals will have to decide what is best in their own particular situation and hopefully the differing views expressed on this thread will help them to decide a way forward.

Yes exactly, how it is received depends on the personality of the one receiving it, which is unknown... So why take that risk?

Frankly, relationships break down and no one if 100% blameless on either side of that, even if it usually leans to one side more than the other in different degrees

But there is someone who is blameless... The child/grandchild, adult or not

Why on earth anyone would want to risk their feelings, I cannot understand it but I do know it is unhealthy

There isn't a person on this planet who hasn't engaged in some sort of imperfect behaviour and any sentiment that, a single person's is and their intention will magically ensure a positive outcome is extraordinarily unhealthy

My point is that in some scenarios NOT doing anything can be a risk as well though, depending on the situation.

I do understand the points you are making. I don't agree that there is only one option regarding risk but so be it. People can consider both views and do as they see fit.

Thankyou for explaining your particular perspective to me.

VS ... please explain your statement " However, sending a stack of those cards for every birthday missed does have a clear implied message that crosses a line onto potentially harmful ground ", how do you come to that assumption, validate ?

A big thank you to those who commented on my posts earlier in the thread. I think you will all appreciate that there is much that cannot be said on an open forum such as this, and therefore I cannot answer your caring and pertinent questions.

All I can say is the situation is very difficult. For everyone, but especially the children.

I said upthread that the most likely people to harm children are their parents and/or step parents. The statistics bear me out on this. My own experience as a teacher of young children bear me out on this. And some personal observations bear me out on this. Consequently I find it difficult to understand the tsunami, it seems, of estranged grandparents. Obviously some will be extremely dangerous to their grandchildren, but that must be a very few. As a teacher I never came across a child abused by their grandparents, but I came across a fair few who were abused by their parents and step parents. Some cases were very distressing, others less so.

Bridie22

VS ... please explain your statement " However, sending a stack of those cards for every birthday missed does have a clear implied message that crosses a line onto potentially harmful ground ", how do you come to that assumption, validate ?

Because it is a message in itself. "Here is a record of every birthday I missed and the card I would have sent you"