Is “ No Contact “ abuse ?

Have you tried asking your son why he has pulled back and really listening to understand rather than listening to defend? I don't know anyone who has gone no or low contact with their parents for no reason. Usually its a choice for self preservation when nothing else has worked. I'm reading a lot of blame toward your son and DIL. I'd encourage you to look at yourself.

Love & strength to you too BBNan .

Today, Mothers Day, is so hard for so many of us. Love & strength to all who are estranged 🤗

Yes it does Missiseff and if that's how it feels, that's how it feels .

It certainly feels like abuse

@Pantglas2
How lovely that you have reconciled. I sincerely hope one day I’m on here saying , yes , I’ve done it ! We are a family once more . Nothing would make me happier.
I would gladly accept responsibility for any slights or even perceived slights if it opened the door to communication with my DIL . I don’t really understand why she won’t even agree to try once more . In fact, if I am being pernickity I could say that the whole thing about me not having contact with my GS was her doing . On one occasion, I was trying to give my AS a hug and she took exception to this . Screaming at me , she told me he has his “ right to body autonomy “ which I didn’t understand so I laughed thinking it was a joke . Well it wasn’t a joke - she told him ( and me ) they were leaving my home , and if I thought I’d get my hands on HER child then she would make sure I never did. This was months ago and I’ve been threatened with NC with my GS ever since .
I’d happy let this incident go . I would never mention it again . We need to try to talk and move forward rather than backwards.
This whole situation has mushroomed from a couple of small incidents and grown into a full- blown rift which is heartbreaking. I am sure we can make life work again some day , but I’m wondering just how long I am made to suffer in the meantime. I’m certainly not abusive and/ or spiteful to either my son or his wife which makes this so hard to bear .
I am optimistic after reading your reply that with the necessary hard work, relationships can get back on track once more .

@Allsorts you are right in saying that there’s not one size fits all with estrangement ( or possible estrangement) but it hurts . Yes , it really hurts terribly.

Pantglas I am sure your advice will be helpful to those who are estranged and those who fear it for whatever reason. Good to hear such a positive outcome after, I expect, a lot of pain on both sides. 💐

It's wonderful to hear from a parent who has successfully reconciled Pantglas .

Hi Madgran and all who read this thread… I’m one who was estranged for many years and have successfully ( I hope) reconciled for many more years.

I chose the route of acknowledging whatever wrongs I had unwittingly committed and made sure that all lines of communication were open but it still took all my powers of persuasion that bygones would be left behind and we could move on.

More than a decade later we have a caring relationship, different to what I anticipated, but on a more mature, adult basis of mutual understanding that we are so very different in our expectations of what constitutes a mother/daughter relationship.

I love her to bits and I now know that she knows it, without me feeling that she has to reciprocate it on a regular basis - we are equals in this interaction and seem to adapt it on a regular basis.

We have to respect that our offspring don’t necessarily deal with things in the way we do.

No. It was a comment related to the comments above it about what different people had in thier experience noticed about sentiments expressed.

Reading those got me thinking about my own experience of what I have noticed over time on Estrangement threads. I was expressing that because I have NOT noticed one pattern in terms of sentiments expressed nor have I seen a standardisation of sentiments expressed by AC or GPs etc.

I DO also think ofcourse that advice from people who have had successful reconciliations can be very helpful. So can advice from others with different experiences depending on the context of what the problem is etc. Every case is different

Madgran77

whenwewereyoung

and in my experience i notice that sentiment quite frequently.

I also notice assumptions being made that the Parents/MiL or whoever MUST have "done something!" So assumptions can be made about anyone in this scenario of Estrangement really

But I also notice many posters both estranged AC and Estranged GPs/in laws or those fearing Estrangement or whatever , who respond differently according to the particular scenario being presented to them based on what they have been told.

I have certainly seen estranged GPs advising AC to walk away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive parent/inlaw based on information given.

I have also seen estranged AC suggest a poster walks away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive AC because of the information given.
Such posters don't deal in generalisations which seems a good way to go to me.

clarifying question: are you referencing my comment about getting advice from people who have had successful healthy reconciliations instead of those who haven't?

whenwewereyoung

and in my experience i notice that sentiment quite frequently.

I also notice assumptions being made that the Parents/MiL or whoever MUST have "done something!" So assumptions can be made about anyone in this scenario of Estrangement really

But I also notice many posters both estranged AC and Estranged GPs/in laws or those fearing Estrangement or whatever , who respond differently according to the particular scenario being presented to them based on what they have been told.

I have certainly seen estranged GPs advising AC to walk away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive parent/inlaw based on information given.

I have also seen estranged AC suggest a poster walks away/steps back from their apparently toxic/abusive AC because of the information given.
Such posters don't deal in generalisations which seems a good way to go to me.

and in my experience i notice that sentiment quite frequently.

No one to my knowledge has ever said that either Allsorts. As you say It's hard luck if you get a mil or dil that's like that and not much you can do.

I don’t think all dil are coersive and controlling, never said that. There are people young and old, who have to be in control and cause trouble. It’s hard luck if you get a mil or dil that’s like and not much you can do. Usually estrangement is over something that gets out of hand and escalates, people get stubborn and won’t engage, however usually they eventually make up.

Gwyllt

Miss adventure your comment about narc mother in laws did not suddenly become such when their sons married
This person was a cherished child cos her brother died in infancy She was spoiled. Although the family were not well off she always had the best and kicked off if she didn’t get her own way She generally ruled the family. According to her cousin whom I met for the first time at her funeral but had spoken to her on phone
When MiL married she isolated her husband from his family and I believe friends
When sons were young she managed their friends
My husband was the golden boy and his brother the scape goat
My husband was blackmailed into accepting the student placement in his home city with the gift of a car
BUT once he started work she milked him dry financially
So yes once a Narcissist always one

Of course.
Which means she was a narcissist throughout her life.
As a young woman, as a wife and as a mother, and a daughter in law, as well as a mother in law.
Then merrily onwards into her later years.

I've been on this forum for more than 11 years whenwewereyoung and it's not my experience that what you've referred too is a sentiment that's seen a lot here. When it is, it's not just in relation to EP's and their EAC. It's also sometimes present when d's.i.l. are talking about their m's.i.l.

Examples of coercive controlling behaviour can often be traced back to childhood Gwyllt. Neither your husband as the golden child or his brother as the scapegoat, would have been unaffected by their mother's behaviour or your f.i.l., who found himself isolated from family and friends.

Miss adventure your comment about narc mother in laws did not suddenly become such when their sons married
This person was a cherished child cos her brother died in infancy She was spoiled. Although the family were not well off she always had the best and kicked off if she didn’t get her own way She generally ruled the family. According to her cousin whom I met for the first time at her funeral but had spoken to her on phone
When MiL married she isolated her husband from his family and I believe friends
When sons were young she managed their friends
My husband was the golden boy and his brother the scape goat
My husband was blackmailed into accepting the student placement in his home city with the gift of a car
BUT once he started work she milked him dry financially
So yes once a Narcissist always one

User138562

whenwewereyoung

i read elsewhere that she wants to mend the relationship with her son.

if that's true then what i'm asking is: wouldn't she be better off taking the advice of parents who have had healthy reconciliations with their children instead of parents who haven't?

My thoughts exactly. I would say more but I have no desire to have my words dissected more than necessary.

I don't think contrary opinions are welcomed here. If the opinion isn't "EAC is a monster" or "EAC is doing it to hurt you" or "EAC is being controlled by a partner who is a monster" then it will be rejected.

There's something to be said for considering the audience in this scenario. OP likely is looking for validation not advice.

* If the opinion isn't "EAC is a monster" or "EAC is doing it to hurt you" or "EAC is being controlled by a partner who is a monster" then it will be rejected. *

i notice that sentiment a lot in this forum and it's sad. i feel like it's a very bad mindset to have if you want to stop a potential estrangement from happening.

very counterintuitive

Allsorts

When you are estranged you cannot believe it, so unexpected for lots of people. It’s helpful talking to people who understand, we all have different reasons for it happening . I would only ever advise anyone to stand back a little, don’t force discussion if they have said they don’t want it, but say when they are ready you want to put things right and listen to what they say. There are mil’s and dil’s who are from hell. Hopefully most estrangements resolve, but if it doesn’t we have to learn to live with it. What you don’t want is people thinking they know what they think you did wrong that enabled estrangement , it’s not one size fits all. it just hurts.

Estrangements aren't one size fits all--very true statement. This is precisely why the constant hypothetical references to the DIL being coercive or controlling is so negative and divisive. There's no proof. In fact, the DIL's distance from the OP is the most rational part of this whole thing. There is no healing purpose behind trying to drive an evidence-lacking perspective into this specific situation. The end result of the OP fashioning her DIL as the problem will be estrangement. It will not bring her son closer to her, but further away. It's a hypothetical that is strictly meant to divide.

Taking a step back, not continuously broaching the subject that clearly enrages her son, it the best way forward. If he gets angry at the discussion, leave it be for a while. MIL, son, and DIL all seem to be hurt by each other's behavior. A step back can do wonders here.

for some it is

There's absolutely nothing wrong with contrary opinions User as long as they are given in a reasonable manner and without attacking and/or labelling the OP and/or those who happen to agree with her and are offering their support.

I've not seen anyone refer to the OP's son as a monster or say that her d.i.l. is one. Sometimes an EAC is being controlled by their partner. There have always been examples here on GN but perhaps you don't want to believe that can ever happen do you.

It's funny how the posters who regard their opinions being disagreed with as rejected, are the very ones who reject the possibility that it might not be the EP's fault, that their AC and/or partner may be to blame. These causes of some estrangements never even being considered because for some, it's always the parents/ ps.i.l./mother/m.i.l. isn't it.

it's not one size fits all no it isn't Allsorts but it does come across that for it is.

When you are estranged you cannot believe it, so unexpected for lots of people. It’s helpful talking to people who understand, we all have different reasons for it happening . I would only ever advise anyone to stand back a little, don’t force discussion if they have said they don’t want it, but say when they are ready you want to put things right and listen to what they say. There are mil’s and dil’s who are from hell. Hopefully most estrangements resolve, but if it doesn’t we have to learn to live with it. What you don’t want is people thinking they know what they think you did wrong that enabled estrangement , it’s not one size fits all. it just hurts.

whenwewereyoung

i read elsewhere that she wants to mend the relationship with her son.

if that's true then what i'm asking is: wouldn't she be better off taking the advice of parents who have had healthy reconciliations with their children instead of parents who haven't?

My thoughts exactly. I would say more but I have no desire to have my words dissected more than necessary.

I don't think contrary opinions are welcomed here. If the opinion isn't "EAC is a monster" or "EAC is doing it to hurt you" or "EAC is being controlled by a partner who is a monster" then it will be rejected.

There's something to be said for considering the audience in this scenario. OP likely is looking for validation not advice.