Is “ No Contact “ abuse ?

Your comment @ 01.35 singled out those who are permanently estranged. What about advice from those who themselves have estranged or their partners have, and those who have no experience of estrangement?

TBF whenwewereyoung EP's have given her advice on that, suggesting for example that although it's hard, that she stop contacting him to give them both space.

She's been advised that her son's abusive treatment is unacceptable and she needs to have some boundaries to protect herself.

I haven't been critical of the way her son and d.i.l. are treating her because I'm an EP, I'm critical because the treatment and the way her son continues to speak to her when he is choosing to go and see her, is quite frankly appalling.

i read elsewhere that she wants to mend the relationship with her son.

if that's true then what i'm asking is: wouldn't she be better off taking the advice of parents who have had healthy reconciliations with their children instead of parents who haven't?

You're not just presenting an opposing view though are you mamasperspective. Your responses are unpleasant and judgemental.

I see that for the second time you are implying that the OP is a narcissist. That isn't simply presenting an opposing view, it's offensive and perhaps says more about you than you realise.

whenwewereyoung may have read that out of context . Are you saying parents choose for their children to permanently estrange them ?

But I did not choose to get myself permanently estranged from my son . He chose to do that. I had no warning it was going to . I saw him on my birthday April 2020 he came after work with cards and presents . We had to sit apart and in the garden he said about putting paving down for me to make it safer. But I said he had enough to do . Both my son and daughter in law worked had 2 boys and another on the way.
Four days later I had a text saying
I have sent you an email don't contact me . It was full of lies and assumptions he called me vindictive and manipulative 2 things I have never been. He sent his sister one but she had washed her hands of him years before. He ended his email with I don't like you mom but love you. And give me a few months. If this is his love would hate to see what his hate is like.

I gave him months and it was his birthday and second sons birthday in August the same day plus I knew my new grandson was due in July. At the time of the email my son knew I was waiting for tests on my heart as the echocardiogram showed a problem . So I asked how the family was and hope mother and baby where fine and told him they had found a hole in my heart. It was a friendly letter didn't mention the email. I had put in a cheque and how it was to be divided up and some for my oldest grandson as I always gave to siblings when a new baby was born. Put in a birth card and 3 presents for my new grandson.

The day after their birthday the parcel came back cards all unopened and the presents crushed luckily they where soft and a letter saying I do not want your vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere near me or my family ever again zero contact.

That was it. His choice since that letter contacted twice via text as I needed to . When my husband died he left his personal car number plate to the children so I finally got round to sell it. My brother had emailed him asking for his bank details so I wouldn't have to contact him. He ignored my brother for 4 days and I got mad. So I text it at 4am on the Monday morning as I knew he would be at work . Told him if I didn't have his details by 6pm he lost the money. So course I had a reply at 9.30 am and he put thank you . And that upset set to think money was the only way he was going to be civil to me.

When I transferred the money to my daughter first thing she said did you have any fees to pay. I explained how I took a lower price to get the money fee free and was in my bank account within 3 days. My son never even asked that all he wanted was the money.

Next time I contacted him was when I had my diagnosis of what was wrong with me . I text to say I was sending him a copy of my neurologists letter. And how to get tested if he wanted to. I was born disabled with a rare hereditary neurological condition. But when my health got worse when my son was 6 months and daughter 4 my late husband just said we alter our way of life to suit what you can do. But I was a hands on mom only thing I couldn't do was carry my son up or down the stairs due to limb jerks and acute pain or go out by myself. If we went in one shop I used my stick otherwise went in a wheelchair until the children where lot older.

I had silence not even at least you know mom or glad you know.

Last year I decided to text him but if I got silence or abuse I was done . As the only person hurting was me and I had enough especially as my mobility has gotten worse . Friendly text had abuse back so I am done. My son knows where I am. Lat time I saw his 2 eldest they where 4 and 2 and had seen them every week for 7 months and my son said they got excited when they realised where they were going. I don't know the name or date of birth of their brother. They are now 7,5 and 3.

So I hope you aren't saying I chose to be permanently estranged from my son as no parent who loves their child unconditionally would choose this as it's cruel . I had a living caring son for 32 years no idea who he is now .

It was the 20th anniversary of my husband's death on Tuesday I do hope my son remembered. And on Friday it would have been his 67th birthday.

Estrangement is a living grief . And I have enough grief in my life as I still grieve everyday day for my husband. But for all my son and daughter in law have done nothing comes close to the pain of my husband dieing .. I have to many good things going on in my life . I gave my son a chance he chose to threw me away but not only me but all our side of the family.

I feel sorry for my grandson's growing up without the joy of extended family . As they only have their other nannie who lives with them.

My son and daughter in law think they are perfect they are far from it I know things and seen things when we where in contact but I never said a word . I bite my tongue instead. As it parents who make the rules not grandparents.

Yes it is a choice whenwewereyoung, just as taking advice from someone who has permanently estranged is.

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taking advice from people who managed to get themselves permanently estranged is definitely ... a choice.

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Who said that Madgran, it isn't true

That's funny agnurse. When Mr. S's maternal GM was in her 80's she used to help out a neighbour because she was old; her neighbour was younger than she was.

Smileless

My late great-grandfather refused to go to the senior citizens' drop-in centre in his community. He called it the Drop Dead Centre and said it was for old guys. He was 83

Smileless2012

Oh no, does that mean that at 63 I've reached old age?

I'm 69 and decrepit!

Oh no, does that mean that at 63 I've reached old age?

Smileless2012

No it was my typing error Madgran not yours, I should have said 'would not be abuse'. Bugger, and I read it through before pressing 'post message'.

It can either be excused by old age (does being 63 count), needing to go to Spec Savers or both.

No worries. Probably both ...I do the same! 🤣

No it was my typing error Madgran not yours, I should have said 'would not be abuse'. Bugger, and I read it through before pressing 'post message'.

It can either be excused by old age (does being 63 count), needing to go to Spec Savers or both.

I agree that in that context low or no contact would be abuse.

...oh and Im not sure if this was a typo but I actually said I don't think, in that context, it would be abuse per se. It would be the understandable and rather sad outcome of behaviours on both sides that almost inevitably pushed the relationships in that direction.

Smileless2012

Someone who was a size 18 with no fashion sense perhaps.

I agree that in that context low or no contact would be abuse. I don't see either as always being abuse, for me it depends on the context.

If it's because the one going no contact does so to hurt and/or punish then I believe it is abuse. If it's because someone is manipulating and controlling someone to get them to go no contact, then for me that is abuse not just of the one who ends up with no contact, but also the one maneuvered into taking that decision.

I see your points Smileless.

Context is all. Behaviours are all, from either side. Every case is different and there are no hard and fast answers to any of it are there.

Life would be a lot easier if we had hard and fast answers to all aspects of all relationships wouldn't it""

Someone who was a size 18 with no fashion sense perhaps.

I agree that in that context low or no contact would be abuse. I don't see either as always being abuse, for me it depends on the context.

If it's because the one going no contact does so to hurt and/or punish then I believe it is abuse. If it's because someone is manipulating and controlling someone to get them to go no contact, then for me that is abuse not just of the one who ends up with no contact, but also the one maneuvered into taking that decision.

On a more serious note though ... there is a pen picture in this little scenario about how different responses illicit different results.

She behaved the same with my SIL who got very upset and hurt and just could not manage to ignore it/calmly make appropriate comments to keep boundaries without giving much attention' or just laugh it off. ( she is a nice woman and we have always got on well, just a very different personality and also 15 years older than me. She would ask me what to do and I would talk her through it and model but but it was just something she couldn't manage, always started crying and feeding the attention wanted, I suppose!)

My BIL ( her husband) was also 15 years older than MrM and a very different personality - , challenging every small thing that it could be possible to be offended by and generally drawing red lines all over the place for his mother to promptly step over. It was his way of dealing with it which is fair enough but not very successful I'm afraid.

They ended up on very very low contact with his parents which seriously upset him regarding his dad and probably would have been completely estranged eventually if his Mum hadn't died suddenly! A shame really.

In that context I don't think the very low contact or even No contact if it become that would be abuse per se, with reference to the OP question.

I am well aware that I could easily have been quite reasonably offended/hurt etc but really couldn't see the point and I was more concerned to focus on Mr M maintaining whatever he wished to with his parents without additional angst!

Maybe that comparison of outcomes might be useful/helpful/food for thought for others who are thinking about how to avoid low contact/estrangement.

Er no ...no phones then with cameras and anyway I never actually put them on. They went to a charity shop. Hope someone enjoyed them!

Oh Madgran I'm sorry but the out of date gifts you knew she'd been given did make me laugh, not to mention the over sized "very short nylon polka dot baby doll pyjamas in shocking pink". Any chance of a pic of you modelling them? .

We are!

She did have a habit of giving me presents that I had watched her unwrap the year before as well, given to her by my BiL/SiL or by friends of theirs! So out of date chocolates; out of date jams and chutneys and such like. Always got thanked with a smile! Couldn't be bothered to get offended or feel disrespected or whatever; far more interested in supporting Mr Madgran who got on very well with his dad and rather preferred to tolerate his mothers foibles for the sake of his dad!

I did slightly struggle not to just laugh at the stunningly awful very short nylon polka dot baby doll pyjamas in shocking pick just after we got married though .... lord knows that that was all about or where she got them from ...they were Size 18 and I was a Size 10!!! ;)

And they produced a lovely son!! as did my in laws Madgran; aren't we lucky.

He was lovely. He adore her. She wasn't all bad but very needy for attention which he gave her in spades do I supposed that is why it worked. And they produced a lovely son!!

Well yes, having driven such a long way to say she wouldn't be staying wouldn't have worked would it.

Your f.i.l. sounds like he was a lovely chap. His behaviour showing just how bad his wife's was, subtle but effective. Good for him.