Is “ No Contact “ abuse ?

I expect if you asked my ILs they'd tell you they were nothing but loving and caring but the reality of that was unbelievably controlling behaviour, tantrums when I didn't cancel long held plans to spend time with them, changing things in our home and trying (and in one case succeeding) in imposing their decisions on serious life decisions for us. The final straw was the tantrum that ensued when I wouldn't cancel looking after my ill father to see some relative of theirs.

I tried speaking to them about their behaviour, they denied being controlling and said it was just because they wanted to spend time with me.

Going NC was in no way abusive and I tried to resolve it but as far as they were concerned I should do as I was told, hidden behind the excuse it was because they cared. Why should anybody have to put up with that?

Has your son told you his wife doesn't want to see you Ladys or has this only come from her mother?

If he's feeling torn between you and his wife then he will be unhappy. I've never understood why a spouse or partner would want to put someone they love in such an intolerable position.

An AC should be able to have a relationship with their parent(s) if that's what they want. Their spouse or partner doesn't have to be involved if they don't want to be.

Putting them in a situation where they have to choose is abusive.

I agree, it's painful for any relationship to end but it isn't abusive to end a relationship.

Abusive people themselves have been using the idea that that pain is abusive to guilt their victims into staying in their lives since the beginning of time.

Who would really want to think the way an abuser does?

We just aren't entitled to a relationship with anyone. Relationships should be mutually living, trusting and beneficial to our mental health. When they aren't, we need to heal from them and move forward with the people who we do have healthy relationships with

@Sago
It’s been such a difficult time because my AS has changed so rapidly into a person I no longer recognise. This is , in part , why I struggle with him *at the moment . I sincerely hope that I can get back onto a better footing with him . I love him so much but I don’t like him at the moment.
I suspect that he could be suffering from narcissistic personality disorder. He has been gradually developing traits for a while now . This obviously worries me because NPD causes the sufferer a lot of unhappiness. I don’t like seeing him like this .
My DIL has point blank refused to see me but it’s her mother who gives me this information. I really don’t trust her because she’s driving a lot of this and she has a lot of influence over her daughter. I can’t actually communicate with my DIL due to threats of harassment. After the bouquet of roses were deemed to be intentional harassment, I feel like giving up .
I have been given some really good advice as to how to diffuse difficult situations and take back some control . I’ve been practicing this !
I am , in fact trying so hard to salvage this . My son tells me he wants to continue seeing me ( which is the opposite to his wife ) so I guess I won’t turn my back on him . He seems to be very unhappy and I can’t sit back and ignore this .
Within this situation where my DIL and mother are attempting to cut me off , I think I’ve been very passive . Some posters have accused me of interfering in their lives too much . I really do dispute this . I’m showing care towards my AS who seems to be stuck in the middle of a terrible situation. I fear my DIL wants him to choose between us , which is disgusting. I have loved her like my own before all this started , but now I’m wary of her motivations. The only thing I know with certainty is that she was the first out of the 2 of them to threaten no contact with my grandson. This was because I tried to hug my son in front of her which she didn’t like , stating he had the right to his body autonomy. I was so shocked by this ridiculous outburst I stood there mouth open like a goldfish , stunned . What a bizarre morning that was . *

Relationships end for a myriad of reasons.

Nobody says that divorce is abusive, even if one spouse doesn’t want it. Nobody claims it’s abusive to not stay friends with someone.

So why is it abusive if a family member doesn’t want to continue the relationship?

I’m not saying estrangement isn’t painful. But something being painful doesn’t make it abusive.

VioletSky

Those would be words to be treasured, said calmly and sincerely, no ifs or buts

I'm sorry VS I'm confused about which words you mean?

And I'm sure that's how they'd be said.

Those would be words to be treasured, said calmly and sincerely, no ifs or buts

It looks that way at the moment doesn't it Madgran.

Sago "asked me how we could move forward and what she could do to allow her a part in our family

As I understand it LadyS has already asked what she can do and been told "nothing"! A bit of an impasse really and no apparent desire to move forward at the moment, from her son.

I'd prefer it if you actually said what you mean Sago. If you're not prepared to do so then it may better to say nothing.

Smileless2012

I'm not sure how your experience of your mother who had NPD is relevant to Ladysuisei Sago .

Think about it.

I'm not sure how your experience of your mother who had NPD is relevant to Ladysuisei Sago .

I have had a really good think about your situation, from reading all your responses and looking at the other thread I am getting a clearer picture.

I had a very difficult time with my mother who had NPD and did go NC for sometime.

I wish more than anything she had stopped all the vitriol, he said she said etc and just calmly asked me how we could move forward and what she could do to allow her a part in our family.

I think you need to draw a line under the past and have this conversation with your son in the hope that trust will be regained on both sides.

I was a single mother of two toddler boys, ages 3years and 3 months. In 1980 I left an extremely abusive husband who beat me to a bloody mess and loaded a 357 magnum and held us hostage for 6 hours. I was released from the hospital and drove 1,360 miles home and made a life for us. I devoted my entire adult life (their childhood) to being a good mom. They went to 12 years a Catholic school and 4 years of college. Every penny I had went to keeping a roof over our heads, clothes on our backs, food on our table. They went to camp every summer and played travel sports, my youngest even got a full scholarship to college for sports. I didn’t date, I spent all my time working 3 jobs and running them to and from practice, games and school.
We had a great family relationship, when they graduated from college I got remarried to a lifelong friend. We were happy and enjoyed each others company. Our kids would plan time together, dinner out, vacations, we all liked each other, we enjoyed each other.
In 2007 my youngest son got involved with a girl who was the sister of a boy he went to school with. She cane from a very dysfunctional family with a great deal of drama, always drama. Always someone fighting or not talking to someone. When she was little one of her first memories was her father cheating on her mother. So she woke up in the kids in the middle of the night, put them in the car and drove to the other woman’s house. She went in dragged her out onto the front lawn and beat her in front of her children, threw a rock thru he picture window and got arrested. This is the family he became involved with! She got pregnant, my son got engaged when my grandson was 6 months old, she sat on my couch and casually told me “you and your family won’t be invited to the wedding I’ll make sure of that”.. and then she laughed. I never would have believed it, but she lied, manipulated, and apparently set out to make it happen by the time my grandson was 1 year old we never saw my son or his family again. They moved out under cover of darkness and went to Florida. There were no arguments, no fights, she gave my son an ultimatum and he chose his new family.
It’s been 17 years, I have 3 more grandchildren I have never met. I am not bitter or angry. I believe in my heart he is a great father and a good provider and he did what he thought was best for his family. I respect that. I am sad, heartbroken that all of my life I sacrificed so that I could one day enjoy the fruits of that labor of love, my grandchildren. And lots of cousins to boot! I held my grandson every day of the first year of his life, I cherish those moments and that time I had with him. I am sad I didn’t get to know the other three. I’ll die and never be a part of their lives, it’s devastating. But I know my son knows I love him, it’s never been a question and my door will always be open. My daughter in law has an aunt who did the same thing, 25 years later her husband reunited with his family after his children were grown. I often wonder if that will happen to us? In the meantime I have not reached out, I’ve had no contact and neither has his brother for all these years we have respected his decision.
It’s not abuse, your children have free will, but it is heartbreaking that’s for sure.💔

No Contact is a term in use for when a person needs to distance themselves from an abusive person, abusive people are incapable of "hearing" why their victim chose No Contact. So whether the reasons for it are explained to them or not, they generally say they do not know why or that the reasons they have been given did not happen. No Contact is used by victims primarily to protect themselves from harm and usually a last resort after taking many other steps to improve the relationship.

Silent Treatment is a form of abuse, it is used to deliberately hurt the victim for a period of time, usually until they get what they want or feel they have caused enough upset. Silent treatment is an abuse tactic, the person doing it has no intention of actually ending the relationship.

Both these things are entirely different. I have been told many times that abuse victims, who are the ones who use the term "No Contact", are somehow wrong to do so on this forum sadly but the fact remains... People may misuse the term but the term is used by victims of abuse and by trying to remove it, you remove a way for people to say that they justifiably left a relationship, whether that is a parent, an adult child or a partner.

"I suspect he just loved his stepfather enough to tolerate your ridiculous entitled attitude" what a thoroughly unpleasant thing to say Grams2five.

😂. Good grief. “Lady”. @Ladysuisei. I was abbreviation your user nam as I didn’t want to be sure on how to spell it 😝. I agree with pp. You should definitely seek professional help. Counseling would do you a wonder of
Good

Ladysuisei

@Wellbeck
Cheers that was harsh ! I have previously had a great relationship with my DIL and just because I didn’t go into details in replying doesn’t indicate antipathy. I thought I’d said this nastiness towards me started in her pregnancy but that may have been something else . Anyway, my son did have a great relationship with his stepdad but he also had a lovely warm , funny and loving relationship with me also . So forgive me for being a bit confused and upset by his sudden change . I can assure you my AS doesn’t have a sense of duty , only to himself. He now regularly tells lies both to me and about me , these lies often being delivered with various expletives. Whatever he wants out of life will include showing me respect going forward- I have allowed verbal abuse to be directed at me for far too long and it stops right now . I don’t understand why you should say I’m intrusive within their lives - they have everything in their own terms so that isn’t the case . Regarding help with my flat - I’m waiting for him to transport me , my belongings and my cat back there following a period of time staying at my dad’s convalescing after an emergency hospital stay . Again I don’t think he’s doing me anything particularly wonderful here considering everything which has been done for him over the years .

Second thought ignore my previous comment and walk away gracefully and with what dignity you can muster. You’re waiting for him to transport you your car a shut belongs but don’t see it as him doing anything for you ? Your relationship was never loving , I suspect he just loved his stepfather enough to tolerate your ridiculous entitled attitude.

Smileless2012

I understood what you meant Ladysuisie. If your partner was still here, he would no doubt have reprimanded your son for the way he's treating you and have supported and encouraged you to do the same.

It must be so much harder trying to deal with this on your own while you're still grieving.

And reprimanding adult children is not appropriate either. Which is what I was asking. Treating other adults like subordinates , like children isn’t a healthy way to have a relationship. In all of this concern a ot how she should be treated differently because she is grieving , no mention that ds is also grieving.

Op states she hears “an awful lot from ds and your dil (not his wife lady ) about how you don’t hear or validate their feelings “. Well that sums it up doesn’t it. You don’t respect the feelings of others. And yet in the same breath as calling expecting one’s feelings to be validated entitlement you make demands about why no one is validating yours. It doesn’t work that way. It’s like respect. You can’t disrespect someone and then demand they respect you. You say “weaponized an unborn child “ and I guarantee you they say “protect their unborn child “ from you. Because they don’t want the baby feeling the sense of obligation your son seems to feel toward you. Whatever issues you feel aren’t insurmountable , your son disagrees. Start there and stop telling him they are that big a deal, really listen to what he’s telling you you’ve done that he feels he doesn’t want his precious child exposed too, and then do some serious self examination as to what you’ve done and how you historically acted. And start by accepting that your dil is your sons wife , the most important person in his life and your obvious contempt for
Her isn’t going to do you any favors , especially when it
Comes to HER BABY. Perhaps a little bumble pie would be well served.

i give up

@Wellbeck
Cheers that was harsh ! I have previously had a great relationship with my DIL and just because I didn’t go into details in replying doesn’t indicate antipathy. I thought I’d said this nastiness towards me started in her pregnancy but that may have been something else . Anyway, my son did have a great relationship with his stepdad but he also had a lovely warm , funny and loving relationship with me also . So forgive me for being a bit confused and upset by his sudden change . I can assure you my AS doesn’t have a sense of duty , only to himself. He now regularly tells lies both to me and about me , these lies often being delivered with various expletives. Whatever he wants out of life will include showing me respect going forward- I have allowed verbal abuse to be directed at me for far too long and it stops right now . I don’t understand why you should say I’m intrusive within their lives - they have everything in their own terms so that isn’t the case . Regarding help with my flat - I’m waiting for him to transport me , my belongings and my cat back there following a period of time staying at my dad’s convalescing after an emergency hospital stay . Again I don’t think he’s doing me anything particularly wonderful here considering everything which has been done for him over the years .

Ladysuisei Having read through this and other posts on a different thread, I really think you should seek some professional help.
Try and find a counsellor who specialises in estrangement.
In the meantime continue to see your son.
Regarding the above, this is an open forum, not an echo chamber.

Grams2five

@ Ladysuisei. You say the whole
Thing isn’t insurmountable but your son says otherwise. That makes it so. By saying he’s being unreasonable nothing has happened that can’t be forgiven you’re invalidating his feelings on the subject , he is telling it is insurmountable to him. Now - that may not be what you want to hear , and it may not be forever how he feels, but for this moment that’s what it is. It does lend itself to wonder if over the years there have been other instances where you have decided everything was fine and he had been saying otherwise and you simply weren’t paying attention. Perhaps some self reflection would be useful. While I’m sure it’s very hurtful to be told you won’t be meeting your grandchild you seem to feel your son being willing to continue contact with you within the baby is a form of “abuse” - which while it’s not pleasant for you doesn’t abuse make, and could also be seen by your son as you’re only caring about grandchild, since continued contact with just him isn’t enough for you. When you do speak with your son I would drop all mentio. Of , asking about seeing begging for contact with said grandchild and simply focus on your broken relationship with your son. That may take time, especially as he says there are insurmountable issues but so long as you’re still in contact I would focus my energy there.

Additionally you’ve repeatedly said “he’d never have gotten away with this if stepfather was alive”. Meaning what? Your partner would have …. Bullied your son into acting differently?
Shamed? Forced ? That doesn’t sound as if this was a healthy adult relationship to start there may have already been issues brewing

@Grams2five

I would like to draw attention to this reply which I received which has disgusted me . Forgive me for including the whole quote , us 59 year olds not very computer literate ( this one isn’t !) .

Anyway , I take issue with the final paragraph. This “ lady “ has made inflammatory, distasteful, untrue , and vile comments which relate to my partner who died in January 2023 . As well as these comments being factually incorrect, they are totally vile , whilst making a direct attack at my wonderful ( late ) partner who is no longer around to be able to defend himself.

@Grams2five : I expect your justification together with an apology within 24 hours , which gives you plenty of time to word it in a decent manner . How you can even THINK such disgusting things is beyond me but to write them down in a public forum shows you are far from being a decent person……….
I look forward to your response……..

I understood what you meant Ladysuisie. If your partner was still here, he would no doubt have reprimanded your son for the way he's treating you and have supported and encouraged you to do the same.

It must be so much harder trying to deal with this on your own while you're still grieving.