Is “ No Contact “ abuse ?

maybe your son got on better/Ok with your partner, and without him in the mix, finds dealing with you alone hard work.
maybe your son and his wife find your attitude to their life intrusive and so want to limit any excuses for further incursions related to their coming child.
your antipathy to your son's wife is not going to make either of them want to have you around.
your son seems to have a sense of duty towards you, so continues to come and see you and says he will help you with your flat.
it may not be what you want, may not be the ideal of happy extended families, but it's not nothing and i think you should be grateful for his continued support.
esp as you say you love him.

@Grams2five

I didn’t think I needed to explain- but when my partner was alive my son was respectful towards me . I dont understand why this has changed. The relationship was perfectly healthy! I believe that having a father figure was good for my AS , since he died my son doesn’t seem to have coped . Now I’ve asked him ( quite a few times ) if he wants to talk about this . The bereavement was shocking - only happened in January 2023 . He went to the doctor for a shoulder injury after falling downstairs and had a massive cardiac arrest in the surgery. The doctor couldn’t save him . Life has been dreadful since then .
I hear an awful lot from my AS and DIL about their feelings/ actions whatever not being validated . This seems to be quite a self indulgent attitude to life , especially when you are unable to consider the feelings and the emotions of your mum who’s recently bereaved . Nobody has validated my feelings . I’m expected to simply think of them ! I don’t expect much from him but a bit of compassion wouldn’t go amiss would it ? Then on top of this to weaponise an unborn child for around the last 6 months is just wicked . Being on the receiving end of such emotional blackmail certainly feels like abuse .

"we can't agree on the basic facts of an adults right to choose their relationships" really!!! Have I said that, adults don't have the right to choose their relationships? No, I haven't but I agree that there's no point in discussing this with you any further User.

"No contact/estrangement doesn't just hurt, it's devastating." It is devastating on both sides, certainly.

That doesn't make it abuse. Hurtful and abusive are different. You would want for people to maintain relationships they don't want or desire to spare someone's feelings? That seems cruel to me.

You can't force a person to want a relationship, and you can't force them to maintain one. It's bonkers to me that anyone thinks otherwise. That kind of thinking keeps people in abusive situations.

Adult children are full human beings with wants and desires, including desires around who is in their life. Force it and it will die. I certainly wouldn't maintain a relationship where someone was trying to control me in such a way.

I won't argue the point anymore because we can't agree on the basic facts of an adults right to choose their relationships.

I disagree that experiencing no contact as abuse is akin to a sense of entitlement to having contact Grams2five.

No contact/estrangement doesn't just hurt, it's devastating.

I've been wondering what point was being made by that comment too Madgran.

Smileless2012

The examples I gave in my last post are often experienced in situations of no contact User, leading up to the no contact and particularly with telling lies to others to damage further relationships.

Insults, humiliation and ridicule are examples of verbal abuse.

Well if it’s leading up the no contact then the estrangement would be a relief from the abuse then wouldn’t it ? Not abuse itself. As for telling others one is no contact what should those estranged do? Simply pretend to still want and have a relationship with someone to keep up appearances? The reality is estrangement / no contact hurts but calling it abuse implies a sense of entitlement to having contact in the first place

woodenspoon

There’s a lot from this poster recently. On several threads.

Is that relevant to this discussion? What is your point?

The examples I gave in my last post are often experienced in situations of no contact User, leading up to the no contact and particularly with telling lies to others to damage further relationships.

Insults, humiliation and ridicule are examples of verbal abuse.

@ Ladysuisei. You say the whole
Thing isn’t insurmountable but your son says otherwise. That makes it so. By saying he’s being unreasonable nothing has happened that can’t be forgiven you’re invalidating his feelings on the subject , he is telling it is insurmountable to him. Now - that may not be what you want to hear , and it may not be forever how he feels, but for this moment that’s what it is. It does lend itself to wonder if over the years there have been other instances where you have decided everything was fine and he had been saying otherwise and you simply weren’t paying attention. Perhaps some self reflection would be useful. While I’m sure it’s very hurtful to be told you won’t be meeting your grandchild you seem to feel your son being willing to continue contact with you within the baby is a form of “abuse” - which while it’s not pleasant for you doesn’t abuse make, and could also be seen by your son as you’re only caring about grandchild, since continued contact with just him isn’t enough for you. When you do speak with your son I would drop all mentio. Of , asking about seeing begging for contact with said grandchild and simply focus on your broken relationship with your son. That may take time, especially as he says there are insurmountable issues but so long as you’re still in contact I would focus my energy there.

Additionally you’ve repeatedly said “he’d never have gotten away with this if stepfather was alive”. Meaning what? Your partner would have …. Bullied your son into acting differently?
Shamed? Forced ? That doesn’t sound as if this was a healthy adult relationship to start there may have already been issues brewing

@Grams2five

Ah that’s quite a list isn’t it . I’m new (!!) and I’m terrified that my son and DIL want rid of me , so I’m trying to get some tips as to how to avoid this . I really want them in my life .
I know I need to give them space as my DIL expecting . My story is quite horrible actually my son is telling lies and being abusive towards me . In order to justify their actions I believe. I don’t think I’m guilty of any of the things which you’ve listed but somewhere along the line we had an incident of miscommunication which wasn’t discussed. We both have different recollections now ( it was 6 months ago ) leading to it festering and potentially destroying our relationship. I’m so sad . This occurred whilst I was newly bereaved ( my partner died suddenly and unexpectedly jan 2023) so all round , things were fraught . I’ve been told I can’t see the child which is heartbreaking- I have reflected on whatever I can remember and this is totally unnecessary and malicious behaviour on their part . To be denied a relationship with my grandchild is unforgivable given my son still wants to see me once a week . I’m probably delusional- I expect I’ll find myself estranged . The difference is that I’ve had an explanation but it’s something that we can resolve , it is not insurmountable. He says it is . I feel like I’m living in a parallel universe at the moment- I’ve never had a fall out with my AS and DIL and it’s so hurtful. I’m trying to do absolutely anything to put things right but my AS is intractable- tells me I will never be forgiven. I found out by accident about the pregnancy, due to a threatened miscarriage and I asked why I hadn’t been told , purely because I was really confused by what was going on . Pregnancy? What pregnancy? Threatened miscarriage- oh no what’s going on ? I ( apparently) said I was disappointed I didn’t know but that was because I didn’t know what on earth was happening and I didn’t have the opportunity to be a source of anything let alone comfort. This was taken out of context , meaning I was disappointed with them . Goodness , if we’d have talked about it we wouldn’t be in this mess now .
So , to me this feels like I’ve been very hurt on purpose actually. I wish events had unfolded in a much less frantic way but I feel so upset that they think I was disappointed with them . My son only told me this today - I don’t remember saying this , so I apologised nevertheless and said I was not disappointed with them , merely the awful situation. Apparently I’ll never be forgiven .
Everyone has their own story don’t they . I’m shocked by how little it can take sometimes for things in life to simply unravel , but I’ve done all I can .

Of course 'no contact' is not abuse. People have free will.

@mOnica

Yes - I thought this is how it works! Whoops 😬

@woodenspoon

Yes I thought this was how it worked . I saw this topic and thought it was interesting 🤨
I won’t in future!

@Gwillyt

Yes I get that but I suppose we post on here in good faith for advice and an exchange of views . Personally, I feel that suddenly being chucked onto the scrap heap of life is akin to being abused because of the pain it causes . I suppose those who are estranging don’t see it like this.

Ladysuisei

@Grams2five

Do you mind me asking what made your in - laws “ hateful “ ? Was this down to a disagreement or something or are they genuinely deserving of being ostracised. Until this started happening to me , I would be under the impression that parents who might have done something really bad ( maybe criminal activity, abuse of various types etc) would be estranged and for good reason . What puzzles me is that for loving , caring and perfectly good parents like myself are increasingly being dispensed with out of convenience more than anything else . I’m trying to understand my situation and I read something ( not in GN) which stated that this type of cavalier behaviour towards parents and other family members is considered to be a form of abuse because of the cruelty involved and also the lasting consequences for the poor person who has been estranged. I’m finding this whole episode so painful because I’ve given my son a lovely upbringing to the best of my ability, I’ve never fallen out with him before, and more importantly they waited until my partner died suddenly in January 2023 before they began this campaign of hatred towards me . My son would never have dared treat me like this when his step dad was alive and I’m trying to understand what motivates a person to cut someone they supposedly love out of their life . I’ve asked you this to try to get some understanding of this type of thing

My in laws weren’t criminal people or physically abusive . They were miserable , bigoted people who never wanted anyone else to be happy either. They refused to respect our family unit as a seperate entity to themselves ,were rude , condescend and outright disrespectful of our marriage and our decisions to have our children. Mil actively campaigned to derive a wedge in our relationship , both as a married couple and also in my husbands relationship with fatherhood , trying to suggest that it was so sad he was being “forced “ to have children and “so young” (this was 35 years ago and we were married and in our mid 20s mind you) and he was going to “miss so much it made her sad “ the in-laws only ever had one child and we’re convinced we should too, as a result they treated our second and third children differently and behaved as though our growing family offensive to them. They used their church prayer groups to spread half truths - mil asking people to pray for our marriage when there was nothing amiss and the straw that broke the camels back way back when our daughter was born I had severe pregnancy complications and was hospitalized and she forced her way in as a visitor and attempted to lecture me on how her son changed when he met me at university and he would never have been so selfish as to have four children and we ought to think of someone but ourselves. So we did - we thought about our children and if they deserved to be forced to see the miserable hag and decided that they did not. There was no silent treatment or manipulation - we simply stopped contact and my husband eventually straight out told her he didn’t wish to carry on speaking to them and so we stopped. It took sometime to emotionally recover because there was more than just what I wrote here - years and years of feeling so anxious when they were to visit I’d be feel sick etc. but I’m the end we were so much happier. Our older two remember them - the younger ones do not and not one of the four ever “grew up and wondered what became of their loving nan and grandpa” as I’m sure the in-laws spun their story. The ones who were old enough to know them later said they were quite released when we stopped seeing them . And yes they were told many times over years that they were acting badly , that whatever was not respectful etc. they should have been well aware of the issues. In fact they had issues in their relationship with their son when I met him, he warned me they were miserable people. I’m positive they claimed to have never had a clue though. Spent decades carrying on about how their awful dil must have controlled their son. When really - it was their sons decision to finally cut them off after a lifetime of feeling poorly toward them. Which is sadly often the case - people who claim to have no idea I’m sure do exist but the vast majority I believe simply were r listening or paying attention

Smileless2012

Well I certainly remember being an enthusiastic newby M0nica.

No contact can be very abusive where there are cruel texts, emails, letters and 'phone calls as well as verbal abuse where there are face to face encounters. Lies being told to other family members and friends in common to try and get them to go no contact too is abusive.

No one has to have a relationship/contact with someone they don't want too but it depends on how the person whose on the receiving end of no contact experiences it. If they experience it as abuse, then I think it's reasonable for them to say so.

"It's reasonable for them to say so" must apply to both sides if true. If an estranged parent can call a situation abuse if it's "reasonable" then so can the AC. And I imagine the AC has a different perspective than this poster and would consider the situation abusive as well.

To be clear, I'm saying you can't rightly call something abusive because you think that's reasonable. There are actual definitions of abuse to use.

And none of those examples with emails, calls, etc would be no contact. Usually when you choose to go no contact you would block incoming calls and texts, reject mail, etc. None of those actions are abusive. They are hurtful.

Well I certainly remember being an enthusiastic newby M0nica.

No contact can be very abusive where there are cruel texts, emails, letters and 'phone calls as well as verbal abuse where there are face to face encounters. Lies being told to other family members and friends in common to try and get them to go no contact too is abusive.

No one has to have a relationship/contact with someone they don't want too but it depends on how the person whose on the receiving end of no contact experiences it. If they experience it as abuse, then I think it's reasonable for them to say so.

There is a difference between going no contact and removing oneself from a toxic relationship which can be very positive
The abuse situation can be when ignoring, giving the silent treatment is used as passive aggression. Ie a manipulative action sometimes used by narcissists. Along with other manipulation tactics

Enthusiastic Newby, weren't we all?

There’s a lot from this poster recently. On several threads.

Everyone should have the right to walk away from a relationship without having to give rhyme or reason for their decision.

While I am sure this does not apply to the OP. It is quite common for the person left NC to see themselves as the innocent party who has done nothing to cause the behaviour, when the person going NC will tell you a different story of mental and psychological - and sometimes physical abuse by that person.

Going NC is not abuse.

The trouble with all of these posts is that the other side is never able to say how they see it
Sometimes there is a lot that is left unsaid

@Katie59

Can I ask you please was it a child or a parent who you walked away from ? I’m so snxious . With the cruelty being currently being thrown my way , combined with so many lies delivered with various expletives , I would be possibly better off showing my son the door . This , however, would be a final act that I really don’t want . For some obscure reason he wants me ( largely) out of his life but it isn’t what I want , so I won’t instigate it . That will need to be down to him

@Grams2five

Do you mind me asking what made your in - laws “ hateful “ ? Was this down to a disagreement or something or are they genuinely deserving of being ostracised. Until this started happening to me , I would be under the impression that parents who might have done something really bad ( maybe criminal activity, abuse of various types etc) would be estranged and for good reason . What puzzles me is that for loving , caring and perfectly good parents like myself are increasingly being dispensed with out of convenience more than anything else . I’m trying to understand my situation and I read something ( not in GN) which stated that this type of cavalier behaviour towards parents and other family members is considered to be a form of abuse because of the cruelty involved and also the lasting consequences for the poor person who has been estranged. I’m finding this whole episode so painful because I’ve given my son a lovely upbringing to the best of my ability, I’ve never fallen out with him before, and more importantly they waited until my partner died suddenly in January 2023 before they began this campaign of hatred towards me . My son would never have dared treat me like this when his step dad was alive and I’m trying to understand what motivates a person to cut someone they supposedly love out of their life . I’ve asked you this to try to get some understanding of this type of thing

No contact is very hurtful, but so is “sending to Coventry, glassing, no affection and other unpleasant behavior, it’s very common and I have been on the receiving end. I should have left 5 yrs earlier.