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Estrangement

How to tell someone life is too short ?

(170 Posts)
Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 12:11:33

Well I’ve been on here for a few weeks and my relationship with my AS and DIL is hanging by a thread . I’ve maintained contact with my son weekly but anyone who’s read my posts will understand the complexity of the situation. I’m trying to give him space , which is following a lot of good advice I’ve been given in here . I’m quite unwell mentally and there are other things going on in my life adding a further layer of complication . I’ve got a lady helping me from MIND the mental health charity who feels that my health is suffering as a direct result of this possible estrangement on the horizon. She’s given me another perspective, which is simply life is too short to allow all this petty behaviour to come between us . Yes , whilst I’m taking my sons’s views and wishes into account, she’s told me quite bluntly that life really is too short for all this . I agree but I don’t know how to convey this to my son without it sounding like a platitude, maybe coming across like emotional blackmail or whatever. Saying life is too short is something I know only too well , but my son is 30 years old , never suffered any real hardship or trauma in his life so believes that life will always be good ( I think so anyway) . He doesn’t appreciate that in the blink of an eye life as we know it can be over , ruined . So , by continuing with this feud , which started of as something which could have been talked about and sorted out , the rest of our lives could potentially be ruined . I am sure he does not want to be estranged from me , certainly not for ever . It is my belief that he’s being at least influenced by his wife , which I can understand. The difference is , within our scenario, her own mother is not being cut out so I feel that things are not equal. I don’t understand why his wife should want him to destroy his relationship with me , other than the fact she doesn’t want to share , or maybe she’s never really liked me , who knows ? I thought we had a great relationship before she became pregnant , but the whole family dynamics have changed with the sudden death of my partner in January 2023. I didn’t notice subtle changes happening- well you don’t when you deep in the quagmire of grief . I’m still grieving, it’s still early days for me and I am struggling . I desperately want to just tell my son and DIL life is too short for all this crap , but I just don’t know where to start . Any ideas GNetters ? Thank you xxxx

Grams2five Fri 16-Feb-24 23:01:41

Ladysuisei

@madgran well I can’t see how life will ever resolve itself if an apology is not accepted. This is what worries me . I’ve spoken with so many people about what’s caused this and their opinion is that my son should be adult enough now to start letting it go .
His wife is apparently “ traumatised “ by the incident. I can’t confirm or deny this because in the grand scheme of my life , I have experienced many things which have traumatised me but I have recovered from them . It is my belief that she might be choosing to say she is traumatised as a way to justify not seeing me . At the time of this bad conversation, emotions were running very high for all of us . I felt trauma too . The way I think about life is that once things are resolved then gradually life returns to normal. So , the bad conversation at the time she was having a threatened miscarriage was resolved by the fact that wonderfully the baby turned out to be healthy , survived and is due in March . To me , this part of the incident would override any words which were said causing hurt if that makes sense . I cannot understand how my DIL is traumatised considering the fact that everything turned out to be fine . Am I missing something here ? I would be so grateful for a healthy baby that I would have long forgotten a poor conversation. This would be so trivial when compared to the wonderful outcome . Maybe things will change when the child is here , who knows but I feel it’s unreasonable to play on the fact you were once traumatised by something which has turned out to be wonderful. I would be thanking God for my baby and that’s it . So this lengthy explanation possibly means they are simply choosing not to accept my apology. In any case , since August we all had some good times and this conversation only reared it’s ugly head around a month ago - it’s an excuse not a reason.

I really don’t like being on the receiving end of cruelty and verbal abuse but for personal family reasons I’ve promised my dad we will give my son a proper chance to prove whether or not he carries through his threat to not allow me access to my grandson . If this turns out to be the case then my dad will be making some decisions and I will stop contact . I won’t allow my son to treat me like dirt indefinitely. xx

So while it is wonderful the pregnancy was able to continue but no - the trauma of fearing one would lose it and perhaps of whatever she felt your attitude and actions were at the time are not simply erased because it worked out well. That simply isn’t the way trauma and feelings work - at least not for many people. She’s likely still anxious for baby’s safety and may even be more cautious once baby is here - she’s felt what it felt
Like to think she was losing the baby. And in that most hurtful vulnerable scared position - you were the person who attempted to make this your experience , your loss, your potential tragedy. This is likely I to take some time to recover from, and while that may not have been your intent it was hurtful - even though the pregnancy was able to continue.

In a somewhat similar situation, my youngest grandchild was born with a heart defect that requires
Urgent open chest surgery as a newborn. It was terrifying for all
Of us but of course none like my daughter and son in law - that was their much loved and wanted baby. Now thank the Lord baby did remarkably well And has thrived . And all
Are incredibly grateful. However
Son in laws sister did much as you did - why wasn’t she called , why hasn’t she been allowed to visit in the neonatal intensive care, - me , me , me. The baby surviving the surgery didn’t take away the hurt and anger this caused in my daughter and son in law. And it simply has taken much time to forgive - even still two years later their relationship, while better is still tainted by the memory of how she behaved. This may be a case of simply needing time to heal from those wounds. So stop pouring salt in them now. Hopefully will time those hurts will heal, but no baby turning out fine doesn’t simply erase the hurt

Grannieinatwist Fri 16-Feb-24 22:57:57

* OP: Where have I said I don’t approve of his wife - I love her dearly. *

I have read a thread from you where you said “there is a special place in hell for her” when referring to your DIL….

Im sorry, but after reading several of your threads, I can begin to see why they are going no contact with you

Hithere Fri 16-Feb-24 22:56:09

"I cannot understand how my DIL is traumatised considering the fact that everything turned out to be fine ."

This says everything.

Are you capable of empathy?

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 22:54:23

@Norah you need to bear in mind the reason for this rift changes from week to week which is why I’ve said manufactured by my son .

He was happy to take the £££ . If that £££ was from a commercial organisation then if he did not fulfill his obligations then he’d be expected to pay it back . In life you can’t have it all ways . Can you ?

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 22:50:26

@Norah - why do you say this when the situation is manufactured by my son ! Not that I am saying I’d want to mind you .
Nice of them to accept the family money then shift the goalposts. Do you agree with this ? Or if it were you , would you expect to be reimbursed based on a broken promise?

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 22:47:03

@madgran well I can’t see how life will ever resolve itself if an apology is not accepted. This is what worries me . I’ve spoken with so many people about what’s caused this and their opinion is that my son should be adult enough now to start letting it go .
His wife is apparently “ traumatised “ by the incident. I can’t confirm or deny this because in the grand scheme of my life , I have experienced many things which have traumatised me but I have recovered from them . It is my belief that she might be choosing to say she is traumatised as a way to justify not seeing me . At the time of this bad conversation, emotions were running very high for all of us . I felt trauma too . The way I think about life is that once things are resolved then gradually life returns to normal. So , the bad conversation at the time she was having a threatened miscarriage was resolved by the fact that wonderfully the baby turned out to be healthy , survived and is due in March . To me , this part of the incident would override any words which were said causing hurt if that makes sense . I cannot understand how my DIL is traumatised considering the fact that everything turned out to be fine . Am I missing something here ? I would be so grateful for a healthy baby that I would have long forgotten a poor conversation. This would be so trivial when compared to the wonderful outcome . Maybe things will change when the child is here , who knows but I feel it’s unreasonable to play on the fact you were once traumatised by something which has turned out to be wonderful. I would be thanking God for my baby and that’s it . So this lengthy explanation possibly means they are simply choosing not to accept my apology. In any case , since August we all had some good times and this conversation only reared it’s ugly head around a month ago - it’s an excuse not a reason.

I really don’t like being on the receiving end of cruelty and verbal abuse but for personal family reasons I’ve promised my dad we will give my son a proper chance to prove whether or not he carries through his threat to not allow me access to my grandson . If this turns out to be the case then my dad will be making some decisions and I will stop contact . I won’t allow my son to treat me like dirt indefinitely. xx

Norah Fri 16-Feb-24 22:39:52

My dad’s 83 and in poor health. And yes , I was expecting to move in with my son and his wife given they had already offered . They have a 6 bedroom house , with a seperate loft space which my father was going to pay to get converted. That’s on top of the funds my parents gave them to buy this house in the first place . Do you think it would be unreasonable then for me to expect to keep their promise

Yes quite unreasonable to expect to move in on Son and Dil now.

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 22:25:36

@eddiecat I’m happy things have worked out for you . I can only hope …….

Madgran77 Fri 16-Feb-24 22:05:41

Ladysuisei

@madgran hi - well I didn’t mean “ crap “ as in crap . In fact I thought this question would turn out to be slightly more lighthearted than it actually has been .
Having said that I’d NEVER refer to this whole time as crap . I’m still practicing my calm approach and largely, it’s working, I’m getting the impression that life’s too short isn’t a good thing to say anyway. I was talking about this issue with the lady from Mind ( someone has picked up on this and yes she’s a friend because I used to volunteer there when I was slightly less unwell ) and she actually said to me “ oh no life’s too short can’t you tell him this “ ! Hence me posing the question for opinions from those who are estranged.
It seems like this is perceived as quite a sensitive thing to say under these circumstances. So from a person not in this situation it seems like a reasonable appraisal , but not if you are in the predicament. That’s interesting. I certainly didn’t view it as something that might minimise my son’s difficulties at the moment. Good job I’ve asked - actually I don’t think my son’s views are crap at all but I do think he is taking it too far . If someone is unhappy about an incident which happened in the past there’s absolutely no way to change this . The only remedy lies in an apology and changed behaviour. Now if an apology isn’t “ good enough” what would you suggest might be . Other than time ? Sadly, everyone seems to focus solely on the fact that I said something which has upset my son but overlooked the plethora of ways he’s deliberately hurting me by way of payback . I find myself constantly trying out your technique of asking if I can do anything to help the situation, being told the situation hasn’t changed then I am remaining calm whilst he hurls abuse . Admittedly less abuse than a few weeks ago . He knew he’d get a reaction by criticising me over my partner’s ashes . He realises I’m devastated by this loss and he also knows that emotionally I’m not ready to deal with them quite just yet . It’s a form of denial. If I ignore the ashes I ignore the death . I know my partner would want me mentally well and settled in a safe home before I deal with this . He spent over 20 years looking after my wellbeing and I know where his priorities lie.
Just a question- do you ever think life’s too short would be useful or is the question not flowersworth it ?

Hi *Ladysue I think that possibly if things can calm down and conversations become more mutual rather than him telling you everything you have done wrong, then possibly *Life's too short" might be something you can both agree on.

But at the moment in all the anger it will not be heard in the way that you mean it

You can give an apology honestly meant. Unfortunately someone does not have to take an apology if they dont want to. That might be because they dont believe it is genuine. It might be because they dont want a solution. It might be because they are too angry. Too overloaded with other things in their life....who knows!

It is partly because an apology is apparently not a solution according to your son, that I am suggesting the calm non engaged strategy. It's a looking to the long term gains way of hopefully retaining a relationship; its not an instant solution where everything is ok again. But it might lead to a point where you can all find resolution. I hope you do

PamelaJ1 Fri 16-Feb-24 22:04:05

This is the first thread from the OP that I have read and feel unable to put in any opinion of the mess this seems to be,
But….as Nell8 has said the advice from the health services to new parents these days seems to be to have 2 weeks on their own with the baby to bond.
Luckily in our family we’ve only got one that believes everything she is told, the others all wanted as much help as was offered. (We are an extensive family). The couple who wanted privacy were given it with no problems.

Nell8 Fri 16-Feb-24 21:52:23

I think some men find it hard to cope when women show strong emotions. They get some sort of adrenalin rush and this manifests itself as anger - fight rather than flight. My husband is normally a very intelligent, calm person but there have been times in the past when I've had an emotional crisis and his reaction has been shouty and defensive "What do you expect me to do about it?" Not what a girl wants when she's feeling needy!

Maybe your son is currently experiencing a bit of this with the two ladies he is closest to as they negotiate intense emotional phases in their lives?

eddiecat78 Fri 16-Feb-24 21:30:10

We had about 5 years of very little contact with DS and none with her or the children. In the end her controlling behaviour caused the marriage to break down completely. He now has a lovely partner who likes us and they are actually all visiting us at the moment.

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 21:17:49

@wellbeck well maybe that’s the case . Perhaps he’s a ray of sunshine at home and reserves all his anger for me , the person who has been there for him for 30 years . He’s also angry on the phone in a Saturday when I speak to him to make arrangements, so he’s at home then . Given the fact that he’s treated my dad so badly, I will find it impossible to be grateful that he’s coming to see me . He comes to my dad’s house where I’m staying at the moment and he has made life very difficult for everyone. My dad’s 83 and in poor health. And yes , I was expecting to move in with my son and his wife given they had already offered . They have a 6 bedroom house , with a seperate loft space which my father was going to pay to get converted. That’s on top of the funds my parents gave them to buy this house in the first place . Do you think it would be unreasonable then for me to expect to keep their promise ?

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 21:09:32

@eddiecat78 re your second post . So I believe there are situations where life is too short would be apt . Just a question then - if you are estranged from your DiL how does this impact your relationship with your son ? I’m just curious that’s all . Do you just see him on his own ?

welbeck Fri 16-Feb-24 21:02:04

perhaps he's only angry when he sees you, not when he is at home.
how can you know that he is always angry.
anyway, as others have said, i think your best bet is just to not get enmeshed in all this.
just be grateful that he comes to see you, and do not say anything provocative.
just be understated, say little, be grateful, be polite.
don't try and sort out whatever has happened in the past.
don't allude to it.
side-step it.

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 21:00:25

@Norah no my partner was his step dad and yes I’ve been around talk people but not really experienced anyone the size of my son being overtly abusive towards me . When we got on well and he gave me a cwtch that was lovely- very conforting and loving . I don’t like this new version where he’s standing over me shouting abuse . That is not conforting .

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 20:55:02

@eddiecat78
Yes you are right and I do need to stop mentioning the situation. Actually I’ve had some good advice on how to do this already , so I’ll put it into practice. I really don’t know what his home life is like currently. I can’t image . All I know is that he’s always angry , he’s never happy but he still comes to see me . It’s very strange. A year ago I would never have predicted anything like this going wrong in my life - both him and his wife were very supportive and we were close . It’s heartbreaking isn’t it xx

eddiecat78 Fri 16-Feb-24 20:51:52

He was uninjured not injured! Blooming phone!

welbeck Fri 16-Feb-24 20:50:49

did you expect to move in to your son and his wife's home ?

eddiecat78 Fri 16-Feb-24 20:50:47

P.S. my DIL estranged us shortly after DS had returned from a tour of duty in Afghanistan where he saw one friend killed and others badly injured. Thank god he came home injured and I felt very strongly at that point that life is too short and we should have been rejoicing as a family and not falling out. I didn't say that to her as she wouldn't speak to me and would have found a way of turning it against me.

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 20:50:25

@DiamondLily thank you for some useful advice on dealing with my new situation.

I am sorry your husband has died too - it’s a heartbreaking time that needs adjustment. I am not adjusting. It was so sudden and absolutely shocking I still can’t believe he’s gone . This wouldn’t be happening if he was here because I’d be happy doing my own thing with him and if my son didn’t want us around well that would be that .

I will try to concentrate on rebuilding my life and see what happens. I’m not looking forward to living on my own it terrifies me actually. It’s just me and the cat . Xxx

eddiecat78 Fri 16-Feb-24 20:45:58

I've been in a similar situation to you and understand how devastated you feel. My strong advice is that you stop mentioning the "situation" to your son in any shape or form. Talk to him about anything but that. Make his visits to you be a conflict free zone - or he will stop coming. My suspicion is that his home life is very emotional at the moment - he doesn't want more of that when he sees you. You have done everything possible to improve things and got nowhere so let the matter go. I think that when things calm down during these visits he will voluntarily tell you what is really going on.
Also if he does become abusive tell him very firmly "Do not speak to me like that. Either stop it now or leave".
Please try to focus your attention on other family and friends now.

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 20:42:53

@march - I don’t understand your reply ? I mean I didn’t have an experience of losing people to death in my 20’s and 30’s ( other than 2 grandparents) . Why does this require bracing myself? Am I missing the point ?

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 20:39:57

@sago I can word this however I want to . Mind is a charity that I have volunteered for when I was well . The lady I refer to has since become a friend - why is that odd ?

Ladysuisei Fri 16-Feb-24 20:34:39

@Nell8 gosh I find that so bizarre ! When I had my son my entire family were in the relatives room next to the delivery suite waiting for his arrival! Pity it went pear shaped and we ended up in emergency surgery. I was out of it of course , but I know my family stayed all night till I was out of surgery and they all saw him in special care 24 hours before I saw him . I had a photo propped by my bed . My son doesn’t know all this - they don’t realise that both me and my sister’s children were a whole family affair . None of what you’ve described happened. I think it’s why I’m having a difficult time adjusting to being told they’re not accepting visitors. How odd xxx