Short answer to your long posts - sell the house , get them out ASAP .
Job done!!
Go for it and good luck !!
When a political leader lies on their CV - can you trust them?
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Estrangement
In danger of becoming estranged from adult children
(243 Posts)I have two children aged 20 (boy) and 22 (girl)who are university students in Ireland. The oldest finishes university at the end of April. In Ireland, unless you are very poor, parents have to pay for university. I moved to the UK 18 months ago to get a better job to be able to support my children through university.
The children live in a house that I own in Dublin - I bought it when I was 23. They pay no rent as they are students. I pay all the utility bills and maintain and insure the house. They have a very expensive lifestyle as students - lots of foreign holidays, designer clothes, out drinking several nights a week, eat only at the best restaurants and cafes, have Sushi delivered to the door when they feel like it, and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time. They work full-time and go to university to be able to pay for their expensive lifestyles. They still get good grades.
However, they treat the house with terrible disrespect and me to, a lot of the time - I am a single parents since they were aged 3 and 18 months. There has been an infestation of mice in the house on two occasions. The last time this happened, the pest control company said it was the worst mouse infestation they had seen in a private house - and the infestation led to the neighbours house being infested also. This happened because my children, particularly my daughter, left food lying around uncovered, and bits of old food in the sink. I was renting out a room in the house at the time to another student. She had left food rotting on the table and kitchen work surfaces for a week. My children never let me know this, or never asked her to clean up, or never cleaned up the rotting food themselves to prevent a mouse infestation. When my children discovered there was mice in, they never let me know for two months. The final bill to get rid of the mice was 560 euros for the pest control company, and 2163 euros to defumigate the house afterwards and get rid of all the mice droppings. The children, but more particularly my daughter, are still not cleaning up the house. My son will do it sometimes with a couple of reminders. I went over last week to the house, the day after a new heating system was put in which cost 7000 euros, the bin in the kitchen was overflowing, there were pizza boxes with half eaten pizzas on the table, and bits of food in the sink. The external bin had not been put out for collection for several weeks and was overflowing. The carboard rubbish that my son had gotten from his Ikea delivery was left in the front garden. When I asked my daughter to empty the kitchen bin and dispose of the pizza boxes and their contents, she went mad, saying she hadn't time, that it wasn't her job, saying she hadn't time as she was going to work - the external bin is in the front of the house, so on her way out to work. Later I discovered she had no work that day.
There is a Ukranian girl now sharing the house who is lovely and keeps the house clean, but who has to do more than her fair share, because my two children won't help, though she acknowledges that my son helps a lot more than my daughter. This Ukranian girl states my daughter refused to help with any of the cleaning, leaves clothes everyone in the kitchen and sitting room, leaves used sanitary towels sticking out of bins and leaves takeaway foods uncovered and rotting in the fridge until they smell. About three years ago, there were two German girls sharing the house with my children and they couldn't cope with my duaghter's mess, leaving clothes everywhere, not cleaning up, and letting her dog pee everywhere and refusing to clean it up afterwards.
There is a back story to this, and apologies if I am long-winded. My daughter has always been quite a difficult person from a young age. Terrible temper tantrums from aged 2. In teenage years, she would scream the house down if the clothes she wanted to wear for school were in the wash - no uniform for school. Boundaries never worked - her demands were never given in to, and she lost privileges such as pocket money for bad behaviour. She also bullied her brother a lot and would make him cry - when I saw it, I always intervened, though they are still very close and tell each other everything and will back each other up against me. Other people have also found my daughter very difficult including teachers, and the family she stayed with in France when she spent a year there during the fourth year of secondary schooling - she had wanted to this and it was very expensive to do - 15000 for the year. As a teenager she would often threaten to tell social work that I was beating them up, and threaten that she would get my son taken away from me. She used to tell my son that I beat her up, and he would take her side, but when I asked him had he ever seen me beat her up, he would say he never had. She would also tell neighbours that I had assaulted her. When she used to threaten social work, I used to give her the telephone number to ring - I worked in healthcare so had the relevant numbers.
However, there is more of a back story to this. My son is not blameless either. I was very close to my son until he was about 14. At this time, he started to mix in with a bad crowd, and nothing I said or did could dissuade him from this, and he resented how much I tried to keep tabs on him. My son eventually started stealing from me, discovered the pin numbers for my online bank account, sold items from the house - cameras etc. He would have friends in when I was not there and they would eat all the food in the house, so it would be all gone within a day or two - this was before they went to university. They both had parties in the house when I was on night duty - I had to work four nights per month, and once when I went away for a night with my best friend. They damaged the work surfaces in the kitchen by dancing on them, damaged sofas by them and their friends vomiting on them. I had a converted attic in the house which was used as a den, and they put cigarette burns in the furniture and threw burning shorts and jeans out of the attic windows.
Things came to a head in those years before university, when my son age 16 decided to hide drugs in the house for one of his undesirable friends in exchange for 50 euros - the house was subsequently raided on a tip off by our police, the Gardai.. My son subsequently had to go into hiding as there was a threat on his life from the loss of money because the drugs were seized. This meant he had to change school as the drug gang knew which school he attended. No state school would take him because of the risk, but I got him into a private school, which cost 8000 per year. I had to work 55 hours per week though to pay for this school for two years, and eventually suffered with burnout. My son and daughter also had to move out of what was our family home to where they live now, which was my first house, which I had bought at a very young age and managed to keep. The gang tried to intimidate me in my home, and I was living in fear of being petrol bombed for the drug debt. A member of the gang came to my house one night. I knew who was ringing at my door, and I rang the police and they were arrested.
These were not children who were neglected. They did lots of after school activities, which they wanted to do. My daughter's hobby was sailing, and I paid for all this, including her sailing exams. They both also loved music, and had piano, singing, drum and saxaphone lessons. We travelled each summer abroad. They had lots of support with school, and I paid for extra tuition as they needed it.
I guess here, I would just like some opinions. Because of all that has happened, I feel a lot of resentment towards my children, and don't feel any real connection to them anymore. My daughter in particular, has always treated me with some contempt. If I text her, she will not respond for days, or until she needs something from me. If I try and arrange to do something nice with her, she will fob me off constantly. If I talk about how their behaviour has upset me or how I find it disrespectful, they become angry and annoyed and just walk away. If I say that something they have done or said has hurt me, and I feel the need to talk about it, they again become angry and blaming and everything is my fault. It's a big effort for them to do anything for Mother's Day or my birthday - if I don't remind them beforehand they won't do anything, yet I always go out of my way to celebrate their birthdays and buy them something nice, and also to make Christmas special. They will meet up with me when I am home sometimes, but they seem only interested if I am taking them out to an expensive restaurant or with the promise of cocktails and a serious amount of alcohol, and so it's gets expensive for me to try and maintain a relationship with them. Tea/coffee and cake in the local cafe or breakfast/lunch in a local bar is not enticing for them.
I am no longer sure, I can maintain a relationship with both of them. I still feel so resentful and sad about all that has happened and the way they have treated me, and that's impacting on my life, friendships and my relationship with my partner. I am working full-time abroad in the UK, but feel no longer able to do this - just wrecked by everything, and want to work part-time, but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university, but yet I cannot stand to go there, and all the pressure to maintain it when they treat it so badly. After the last night when my daughter refused to empty the overflowing bin, I said I didn't want a relationship with her anymore, that I was so tired of trying to support them when they treated me and the house so badly.
Apologies for such a long post, and thanks to whoever manages to read through it, I just need some direction and advice on all this.
You're enabling them, and are now seeing the results.
I agree with other posters.
Don't keep enabling them.
The house value will depreciate too if you don't do something about this asap.
Shelflife
Short answer to your long posts - sell the house , get them out ASAP .
Job done!!
Go for it and good luck !!
I feel very sorry for you Elaine there is nothing worse than an ungrateful child as I well know and yes I have read everything you have written and all the replies and the one quoted above is the one I totally agree with, start thinking of yourself for a change. Happy St Patrick’s day ☘️
As others have said, you need legal advice regarding options for the house and / or how soon you can evict or demand rent, then on default of payment and keeping to the rental agreement, evict. Do these other occupants pay for their accommodation, and if so, who do they pay?
Shelflife
Short answer to your long posts - sell the house , get them out ASAP .
Job done!!
Go for it and good luck !!
Yes this. Let your children fend for themselves. You’ll be doing them a kindness.
As with others here I’m appalled and shocked in equal measures at your very ungrateful and frankly spoiled children.
You have over and above, frankly more than any other parent I know and I so sorry that you have found yourself in this situation!
Please, please set boundaries, show then how much money you’ve spent on the home they’re living in, tell them you’ll draw a line, not talk about the past BUT if any of the things from the past happen again you will give either or both of them notice to quit!
They would have been evicted, even from student accommodation by now and lost their damage deposit.
Please don’t let your children continue to manipulate and emotionally blackmail you any longer!
Stop setting yourself on fire to keep them warm
Time to charge an appropriate rent for their earnings
I think if I could, I'd gift them the house as early inheritance and then go off and enjoy the rest of my income
Gift them the house an early inheritance !!! I can't see how rewarding bad and ungrateful behaviour would be a good idea.
I don't see it that way, I see it as teaching them that they are now responsible for their own bills and property and a quick and easy way to cut apron strings without causing bad feelings
But that's not advice I am giving to anyone. Just how I would handle it, so we don't need to have any arguments about it
and take taxis whenever they wake up late and can't get to work and/or university on time
I'm surprised they haven't been given their P45s (or Irish equivalent).
Mind you, if they have such wonderful well-paid jobs that they can fund an extravagant lifestyle (with your help) why do they need to get a degree?
Certainly most students have to pay rent and bills and learn a few realities of life when they first leave home.
Don't cut them off, though, make sure they know whatever you decide to do, you still love them.
One day, when they have homes of their own and keep them immaculate (and they probably will), you can go to stay and mess the place up completely, leave washing up, unmade beds, clothes and shoes everywhere. It's great revenge fun.
I think if I could, I'd gift them the house as early inheritance and then go off and enjoy the rest of my income
Good grief what a daft idea Take no notice if that one elaine
You don’t need to reward them anymore
The girl is finished Uni in April she needs to have notice as an adult to leave within 3 months of her finish date If you need to do it officially with a solicitors letter do so personally I think keeping it formal is the best way
If you feel the boy would be able to take some responsibility without the sister (Who sounds the leader of disruption) leave him with notice for the following year when he finishes Uni. if not give them the same solicitors letter (reading about his past drug involvement probable he’s no better)
As sad as it is your duties are finished you have done WAY more than most would do WAY more than is needed for most young people and now it’s your time
I m normally very empathetic to young people struggling to get started in ice but this time I m really angry on your behalf
They’ve had MORE THAN ENOUGH
Get started ‘in life’ not ‘ice’ sorry
VioletSky
Stop setting yourself on fire to keep them warm
Time to charge an appropriate rent for their earnings
I think if I could, I'd gift them the house as early inheritance and then go off and enjoy the rest of my income
Give your head a wobble, why should their disgusting bad behaviour be rewarded?
Also instead of making silly contentious statements think of the Mother, she wants to work part time she cannot afford to do this, although I do accept you said if you could afford it.
You have stated in many threads you are a TA, do you reward bad behaviour? I really cannot believe you posted this.
VioletSky
I don't see it that way, I see it as teaching them that they are now responsible for their own bills and property and a quick and easy way to cut apron strings without causing bad feelings
But that's not advice I am giving to anyone. Just how I would handle it, so we don't need to have any arguments about it
Rafichagran
Please also leave personal comments out of threads
I would not make personal comments like that
I think if I could, I'd gift them the house as early inheritance and then go off and enjoy the rest of my income
Would that be such a terrible idea? It depends, of course, on the value of the property but it certainly sounds a millstone around the neck, especially as you are paying all the utilities. and repairs by the sound of it. What a much deserved rude awakening it would be for your children if they then had to fend for themselves.
Elaine, I am going to go against the grain here as I have children in their 20s who live at home with me - one also at uni. I would move back into your house in Ireland and reclaim it. Say they are entitled to stay with you but you have house rules that they must obey, such as some money towards the bills and a cleaning rota so they pull their weight. I can see why you feel resentful but a lot of youngsters in their 20s are quite selfish and don't think emotionally of others, especially their parents.
Where is their Dad in all of this?
I'd also most probably suggest some sort of family therapy might be useful
I think if I could, I'd gift them the house as early inheritance and then go off and enjoy the rest of my income
Good grief what a daft idea Take no notice if that one elaine
You don’t need to reward them anymore
Absolutely right! Why should bad behaviour ever be rewarded? What kind of message does that send out?
Sorry, I haven't read it all (tltr) but it sounds as if your DD either needs therapy or a short, sharp shock.
Stop funding at all her in April and tell her to move out of your house.
Tell your son if he wants to stay there for the rest of his time at university he has to pay rent and bills or find student accommodation.
but I can't sell the house where they are living because they are still in university
Of course you can sell it.
How do they think other students manage?
They having been taking the proverbial for far too long.
Sell it and spend their inheritance on yourself 🙂
It really depends if OP wants no relationship with her children, her future grandchildren doesn't it?
Very easy for all of you to say this but this is someone's family
We don't reward bad behaviour no, we make an effort to understand and prevent it. We don't just label children as bad and say "oh well, let's not bother with that child.
Most people get into teaching in order to change young lives for the better.
When they give up that thinking that's when they are bad at their jobs.
Violet sky, I stand by what I have said, you said, if you can afford it you would give the children a early Inheritance. I asked as a TA do you reward bad behaviour?
This poster is at the end of her tether, she asked advice. Not a statement about early Inheritance.
Also none of what I have said is personnel as you have told us repeatedly on other threads you are a TA. I was just asking whether you would reward bad behaviour?
OP I hope you get this sorted out, and wheb your adult son and daughter have to fend for themselves and are a bit more mature they will come to realise just how much you done for them.
rafichagran
Violet sky, I stand by what I have said, you said, if you can afford it you would give the children a early Inheritance. I asked as a TA do you reward bad behaviour?
This poster is at the end of her tether, she asked advice. Not a statement about early Inheritance.
Also none of what I have said is personnel as you have told us repeatedly on other threads you are a TA. I was just asking whether you would reward bad behaviour?
OP I hope you get this sorted out, and wheb your adult son and daughter have to fend for themselves and are a bit more mature they will come to realise just how much you done for them.
I've answered you and given my reasons of you read the thread
You have a choice to engage with me politely or rudely
You chose rudely
Thanks all for your replies. It's the first time, I've spoken about it to anyone outside my partner and best friend.
I will definitely ask my daughter to leave at the end of April, early May. The solicitor is sending her a letter about having no rights to the house and needing to leave by 31st October - I think I will bring that back to needing to leave by June 30th to give her time to look for somewhere else and get a deposit together to rent somewhere.
Re Castletemon's post above and my daughter possibly needing therapy or a short, sharp shock - possibly both really but I feel my daughter has always been, from a very young child, quite narcistic - she had horrendous temper tantrums from a young age. I always hoped she would change, and did all the reflective stuff with her to try and develop her empathy, but without much success really. She would lose friends all the time growing up, and many of them found her really difficult to deal with. It's hard to say this about one's own daughter. She would also try and influence her brother not to help when I was really sick with Covid, and also bully her brother at times, but they are best of friends also. I love my daughter, but I don't like her a lot of the time. Aside from how she treats me, she has done well in college and has secured a legal training contract.
Re my son - he has two more years in college here in Ireland. I always said I would give them their education and their undergrad degree, so I would like him to stay in the house until he finishes his degree. His actions as a teenager with storing drugs in our house and all the consequences that arose from that, have caused huge stress, but he will clean up the house but needs persistent reminders. He was always more helpful as teenager when we all lived together, but resented that we both had to pick up extra chores as his sister absolutely refused to help with anything.
The Ukranian girl that lives in the house said that when my daughter was working abroad last summer, my son was great to live with and they shared the cleaning, but things changed when my daughter returned. However, my son can be quite arrogant and dismissive, if I ever say something he has done or said has upset me and I need to chat it through. He becomes totally dismissive then and angry and critical.
Re reclaiming the house - I could never live in the house again as long my daughter is there - I know she would never lift a finger and I would always be chasing after her to clean up her mess. I am unsure also that I could live with my son again, but feel he would be easier to live with and put boundaries around than my daughter, but his tendency to get angry and antsy if he is pulled up on anything makes me feel anxious about living with him.
I think asking my son to pay the bills over the next two years when his sister moves out is a good idea.
The Ukranian girl is renting a room there. I have suggested that if she finds my son and daughter to difficult to live with, she could start looking for somewhere else, but she likes the house, it's near her work, and she asked if she could stay there until 2025 to help her get some money together to buy her own place. Renting a room out pays for the insurance and utility bills, annual boiler service, annual stove service, but not for big ticket items like the new hearting system, the cleaning and fumigating of the house after the mice, the pest control company, the new oven and washing machine needed last year etc, which had to come out of my savings.
I want to sell the house when he is finished college, work part-time and just enjoy my life with my partner.
Violet Sky, I chose honesty. Nothing I have said is incorrect, but let's not make it about us, the OP came here for advice.
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