Estrangement advice

DiamondLily

Nothings wrong with anything - but one size doesn’t fit all families, which is what I was trying to say.

Many families don’t need advice - they just bat on accepting each other.

And, as I’m sure you’d agree - nothing wrong with that either.

One side doesn’t fit all
Families. Of course not. But estranged families aren’t all families either. And not all non estranged families are perfect for goodness sake. But I’m families where there is estrangement the advice is good. Especially for parents who find themselves and arranged and being the ones who want to reconcile. We were estranged from my in-laws for decades before they passed. This advice would have been good for them to heed. Unfortunately they simply carried on
Believing themselves to be victims of our untamable
Desires to be treated with respect and as adults.

Smileless2012

Yes DL it's written from one side, from one perspective, the perspective of the AC who appear to have no accountability when it comes to their relationship with their parents being strained.

An AC wrote this? Where does it say that?

Joshua Coleman is definitely not an AC, he is a parent who reconciled with his children when their relationship was strained

JaneJudge

I think as an outsider whose parent estranged them for NO unusual behaviour, the article is saying our children have different lives to us and in non abusive families we can consider each other’s feelings and give one another space and in an idealistic scenario contact us resumed

Yes, it's all about healthy boundaries and accepting our children are autonomous adults now

Something that is hard for just about anyone really... Once they wanted to come with us when we needed the bathroom lol

I didn't say an AC wrote it VS, I said it's written from the perspective of an AC.

Smileless2012

I didn't say an AC wrote it VS, I said it's written from the perspective of an AC.

Do you mean, what an AC needs?

I find many estranged parents would reject any advice that doesn't say "you're right and your children are evil through no fault of your own" and anything else will be considered only from the child's perspective. That's how it works and why the relationships are over. Suggesting respecting an adults autonomy and not being pushy is too much. Too radical.

An article aimed to help you probably won't just tell you you're right. That's why VS says it is aimed at parents who are trying to mend the relationship. The parents need to understand the adult child's needs, so the article focuses on the needs of the adult child.

I imagine the advice would be different (and more validating for an EP) if the article was for estranged parents trying to heal and move on.

Many people here are not interested in their child's perspective because then they would have got make some responsibility for the rift.

My mother couldn't stand even the implication that she had done something wrong. She didn't attempt any of the things in the article, but she would say she did.

Just my opinion.

User138562

I find many estranged parents would reject any advice that doesn't say "you're right and your children are evil through no fault of your own" and anything else will be considered only from the child's perspective. That's how it works and why the relationships are over. Suggesting respecting an adults autonomy and not being pushy is too much. Too radical.

An article aimed to help you probably won't just tell you you're right. That's why VS says it is aimed at parents who are trying to mend the relationship. The parents need to understand the adult child's needs, so the article focuses on the needs of the adult child.

I imagine the advice would be different (and more validating for an EP) if the article was for estranged parents trying to heal and move on.

Many people here are not interested in their child's perspective because then they would have got make some responsibility for the rift.

My mother couldn't stand even the implication that she had done something wrong. She didn't attempt any of the things in the article, but she would say she did.

Just my opinion.

Quite well put. The article talks
About things the estranged parent can keep in mind or try - because it’s written in a way that’s meant to help estranged parents trying to reconcile. (As it seems the author themselves did as the estranged parent) It’s not an article about “how to make your adult children come around and see you were right all along” or about “what your adult child needs to do to make you want to reconcile “. It’s meant to give advice to those who find themselves estranged and want to reconcile. Not every estranged parent truly wants that , especially when it would have to come with changed behaviors . Just as not every adult child is interested in reconciliation. But for those making the attempts , this is good advice to start from. At the very least it should be good for self
Reflection

As I've said, relationships need to be reciprocal and for me, the article is all about what parents should or need to do but there's nothing about what AC should or may need to do.

I don't know how many EP's you know User but your experience of them isn't mine, also who are the people here who "are not interested in their child's perspective"? You have to know what their perspective is and you can't know if they didn't tell you.

It isn't helpful to judge EP's based on your experience with your mother. I don't judge EAC based on what our son has done. I listen to what I'm being told and just because what some EAC have experienced isn't what our ES son did, I don't assume they're not being honest.

I've yet to come across anything written for EP's that focuses on "how to make your adult children come around and see you were right all along" or "what your adult child needs to to do to make you want to reconcile" Grams.

This article for me is saying the latter to EP's. What they the parents need to do to make their AC want to reconcile.

This article does clearly state the needs of adult children and some perspective to consider

There are articles on what adult children can/need to do but for the purposes of the parent avoiding/preventing or potentially reconciling estrangement this article exists to help

To clarify, this specific article is aimed at parents of children who are pulling away from them and explaining why that may be happening

I'm fully aware of the aim of the article VS, I just don't agree with it.

Any of it Smileless?

There’s really no new advice in the article, as most EPs care deeply about their EAC and will have been more than sensitive in their attempts at reconciliation, or in their resigned acceptance of the situation. I recognise there are exceptions, but the exceptions won’t take advice from any source.

For me, the trouble with the article is its assumption that parents can change things by mending their ways, backing off, demanding less, etc. (they already know all that), while there’s no suggestion that the effort to reconcile needs to be mutual.

You might say well, if they already know all that, why don’t they act accordingly? But they invariably do. That’s why often EPs are genuinely mystified at finding themselves estranged.

I've explained several times what I don't agree with VS and see no point in doing so again.

the exceptions wont take advice from any source I agree Delila and your second paragraph sums up my own issues with the article.

I’m not sure what on earth DH or I could have done with his sons.

One only wanted us to pour endless money into his gambling/alcohol addictions. He didn’t want treatment, he wanted cash. We were inundated with abusive demands for anything between £500 a time to £5000. Were we willing to cater for these demands to keep this over entitled son happy? No.

The other one we had helped before when he and step DIL were struggling, and that was fine.

We used to, by invite, visit them once a month or so. A 40 minute car journey, so fine. We never got so much as a sandwich, and used to have to grab a snack at a local pub. But, ok.

When DH got more poorly, all we asked for was that, taking into account he couldn’t drive any more, if they could come up and see him at times. Or, at least, phone for a chat. They had no young children at home.

We got told that old people were a burden, and they had their own lives. DH wasn’t a burden to them - I looked after him.

However, this wasn’t so personal, as they also dumped his mother (DHs ex) in a care home, and the MIL at the same time. They were also burdens.🙄

The last proper conversation I had with my step son was when he phoned me to ask if I knew he could dodge her home being sold, to cover the care fees. He was outraged at losing “his entitlement”. He never visited her, it was weeks before he even knew where she was.

Now, I don’t care about pods, books, articles or films - I cannot see any way I could have resolved this with advice and concessions.

The only way would have been to act as a cash point.

No chance.🙄

Smileless2012

I've explained several times what I don't agree with VS and see no point in doing so again.

the exceptions wont take advice from any source I agree Delila and your second paragraph sums up my own issues with the article.

Where?

Delila

There’s really no new advice in the article, as most EPs care deeply about their EAC and will have been more than sensitive in their attempts at reconciliation, or in their resigned acceptance of the situation. I recognise there are exceptions, but the exceptions won’t take advice from any source.

For me, the trouble with the article is its assumption that parents can change things by mending their ways, backing off, demanding less, etc. (they already know all that), while there’s no suggestion that the effort to reconcile needs to be mutual.

You might say well, if they already know all that, why don’t they act accordingly? But they invariably do. That’s why often EPs are genuinely mystified at finding themselves estranged.

Logically, it doesn't need to be said that efforts need to be mutual..

Is it possibly because, you feel it unfair? That AC weren't asked to do something too?

What do you think that should look like? What should the article be advising AC to do?

No, it’s not a case of unfairness - I have no vested interest. It’s my view of it based on its lack of balance.

I have no advice to give, but if you write an article in order to give advice, it should be balanced and objective, otherwise people, quite reasonably, will find fault with it.

Smileless2012

As I've said, relationships need to be reciprocal and for me, the article is all about what parents should or need to do but there's nothing about what AC should or may need to do.

I don't know how many EP's you know User but your experience of them isn't mine, also who are the people here who "are not interested in their child's perspective"? You have to know what their perspective is and you can't know if they didn't tell you.

It isn't helpful to judge EP's based on your experience with your mother. I don't judge EAC based on what our son has done. I listen to what I'm being told and just because what some EAC have experienced isn't what our ES son did, I don't assume they're not being honest.

I've yet to come across anything written for EP's that focuses on "how to make your adult children come around and see you were right all along" or "what your adult child needs to to do to make you want to reconcile" Grams.

This article for me is saying the latter to EP's. What they the parents need to do to make their AC want to reconcile.

Yes it is saying. What the ep parent needs to do ( or should do ) if they’re trying to attempt a reconciliation that is entirely the point of the article as it’s written by a formerly estranged parent who did manage reconciliation with his eac. That’s 100% who this article is written for smileless. If an EP isn’t interested in that tme article isn’t for them. The problem is so many seem to believe the EP shouldn’t need to do anything to reconcile and fail to
Understand that generally by the time an EAC has taken the step to go no contact. To eatrange , it’s going to take some
Significant change on the part of those they estranged to be trusted and allowed back in. EVEN if the ep feels they did nothing at all to deserve it. Perhaps even more so in that case. If that’s not where you yourself, I’d you or any other EP isn’t interested in attempting such reconciliation that’s quite alright, we all have to protect our own peace and such . But in that case then this article simply isn’t for you.

Whet about where there is no compromise or appropriate solution to be found by the EPs?

How do you compromise on cash demands and getting older?

Just curious.🙂

I don't know who these "so many" are who "seem to believe the EP shouldn't need to do anything to reconcile and fail to" Grams.

Without knowing what led to the author being estranged, it's impossible to know how appropriate the advice given would be for other EP's.

Maybe he didn't respect his AC's boundaries. Perhaps he was too demanding of their time and believed he was always in the right and that they should have respected him, simply because he's their father.

If that was the case, I can see why his advice worked for him but it would also be relevant and interesting to know what and if any changes there were that his AC made.

EP's also need to be able to trust their EAC in order to let them back into their lives. They need to be able to trust them not to estrange them again and this is something that the article for me lacks.

As you say Delila if you write an article in order to give advice, it should be balanced and objective, otherwise people, quite reasonably, will find fault with it.

Where have I explained why I don't agree with the article VS? In every post I've made on this thread.

I wonder what advice Joshua Coleman would have given to you and your DH DL.

Well, unless Mr Coleman had been willing to subsidise our bank accounts, or told us the secret of eternal youth, I’m not quite sure he’d have bought much to our party.🙄

This is the trouble with “catch all advice”.

Everyone’s estrangement, in either direction, is unique to them. Perhaps he was a lousy parent, and changed his ways. I don’t know, I’ve never heard of him.

To my mind, good and healthy relationships come from mutual support and love.

Either side having to concede faults they haven’t got, or doing the “egg shell tap dance” rarely brings lasting happiness.

Still, each to their own. 🙂

Quite, DL.

I rather regret sending the link to the article as it has stirred up so many opposing views. I’m not in an estranged position as both my two ACs are the other side of the world and the distance -timewise too - gives space to think for sometime first before responding to anything that might feel uncomfortable. Well, that’s how things have been so far!
I do understand how that article appears one sided and it only resonated with me because of having read many posts where new GN posters seemed to be pushing for more and more contact when it might be better to just back off for a while. But what do I know…so many varying circumstances.
Just something else that isn’t quite so one sided but explains why it might seem so is this …
Do both sides need to want reconciliation for it to succeed?
Parents tend to be more invested in the parent-child relationship than their grown children, as parenthood is a central identity and as parents age their social circles often narrow, whereas children’s lives are typically fuller as they juggle identities like that of partner, parent and friend alongside work.

Add this to the different ways parents and children view the causes of estrangement and “Reconciliation will likely depend on parents and children’s willingness and ability to acknowledge one another’s different priorities and perspectives.”

Yes, I understand that, but not all older people have a limited social circle - I don’t, and I’m 68.

As a younger woman, I worked long hours, juggled kids, a home etc but still found time for parents, extended family etc. Nothing much has changed, other than attitudes.

Most of my peers managed to fit in family, extended family, friends and colleagues - I wonder why todays generation find it so difficult.🤔

I’m careful not to be needy after being widowed, and have a social life, but healthy families just go with the flow. No dramas, no angst. Just get on with it.

My son, along with my DIL and step grandson, live in America, so, other than once a year, it’s all FaceTime, phone calls and messaging - but, again, it all just flows. No one needs to think about responses. Why would we?

Sometimes it feels like a parallel universe going on.🙂

Don't regret posting the article Juliet, it's given us an interesting discussion and there's nothing wrong with respectfully given opposing views.

Of course both sides need to want to reconcile if there's to be any chance of success.

I'm sure that there are parents who are more invested in the relationship they have with their AC and GC, than their AC are but that's no reason for estrangement, and it's not the always the reason why estrangement happens.

I remember how busy we were when our boys were young, with the work family life balance but we always found time for our parents, the boys GP's.

Reconciliation will likely depend on parents and children's willingness and ability to acknowledge one another's different priorities and perspectives I agree with this and would add that if this willingness and ability is there, estrangement can be avoided in the first place.

It doesn't have to be and shouldn't be an 'all or nothing' situation from either side.

Sometimes it feels like a parallel universe going on yes it does DL.