Estrangement advice

Yes, the perspective for some of us is an issue VS. Who are you to judge whether the reasons given for any criticism are valid or not?

You appear to be suggesting that those who disagree with the article don't want to help anyone who may be worried about their relationship with their AC.

The reasons why some are critical of the article have been given and the only reason we need to criticise it is because we don't agree with it.

What's so so sad for me is your apparent unwillingness to allow those who disagree with you to speak and to try and silence them by suggesting they don't care for others.

Do you think you’ve made any valid and reasoned contributions to this discussion, VS?

Valid, means something that has a sound basis in logic and fact

There hasn't been any valid reasons given as to why the advice given in the article is bad advice

If someone came here, afraid of estrangement and I share this article to them... Are you going to tell them it isn't a good article?

Yes there have VS it's just that you disagree with them but that doesn't make them invalid.

It would very much depend on the circumstances wouldn't it. Would it be beneficial to a parent afraid of being estranged by their AC because they refuse to give in to their unreasonable demands? No it wouldn't.

This is why I stay here...

6 pages of missing reasons

Iam64

DiamondLily raises the issue of a demands for money that is used to feed addictions. This narrow focus on ‘demanding’ grandparents who don’t respect boundaries, or see their adult children as independent adults misses the huge growing issue of parents who were estranged by adult children who were substance abusers. I’m not talking smoking a but of cannabis here
The first estranged adult child I met was a work colleague. He’d grown up with an alcoholic mother. Eventually in his 20’s cut ties. he attempted reconcilliation several times, especially after he married and had children. He begged his mum not to arrive drunk. She continued to do so. Eventually, he decided not to allow contact until mum went into the rehab he was willing to support
The estranged parents I know in my personal and professional life have faced similar difficulties but the chaotic substance abuser is their much loved adult child.
I may be wrong but I suspect this kind of horror is behind many estrangements

Yes, exactly. There is nothing more powerful than an addiction, regardless of what the addiction is. It outstrips everything. It’s all about the next”fix”.

The problem with estrangement is that every situation is unique.

Addiction makes you powerless - you can’t fight someone else’s addiction, but that doesn’t mean you should enable it.

Articles are ok, but they can only really help someone that’s estranged for the same reasons as the author.

I’ve read a few of these articles, and I can honestly say that group counselling, hugs, apologies or sitting round a table, holding hands, singing Kumbaya or something, would not have helped our situation.

There is sometimes an ethos, with these similar articles, of “victim blaming”. Which is often very unfair.

Many, many estranged parents aren’t to blame. Some might be, of course.

As well as addictions, there are often other things such as mental health issues, dysfunctional personalities, in-laws with axes to grind etc etc.

In the end, we all have to work out the best way to deal with our own situations.🙂

Yes DiamondLily, every estrangement is unique. There may be similar themes but no one fix suits all. Many families of 4 or more children have only one ‘difficult’ child. Taking a detailed family history often suggests that child was more difficult to bring up than their siblings. It’s easy to conclude the child was scapegoated, chosen to carry negatives in the group. Often though, it emerges that child is similar to an older family member, who has similar personality traits.
No easy solutions to these complex problems, whether estranged parent or adult child. It’s difficult to develop discussion on the estrangement threads when blame is so often directed at the parents

It's difficult to develop discussion on the estrangement threads when blame is so often directed at the parents yes it is Iam, difficult and unproductive.

EP's are an easy target an this thread is a prime example of how what they have to say is ignored simply because it is disagreed with.

I have no idea how you can conclude that there are 6 pages of missing reasons VS, not that it matters. The reasons are there, you just choose to ignore them but that doesn't help EP's, EAC or those from either side who worry that estrangement may affect their lives.

I’m daring to add another article that may be of interest as it seems to advise ACs more

www.verywellfamily.com/how-to-rekindle-a-relationship-with-estranged-family-4796333

Iam64

Yes DiamondLily, every estrangement is unique. There may be similar themes but no one fix suits all. Many families of 4 or more children have only one ‘difficult’ child. Taking a detailed family history often suggests that child was more difficult to bring up than their siblings. It’s easy to conclude the child was scapegoated, chosen to carry negatives in the group. Often though, it emerges that child is similar to an older family member, who has similar personality traits.
No easy solutions to these complex problems, whether estranged parent or adult child. It’s difficult to develop discussion on the estrangement threads when blame is so often directed at the parents

I suppose families are unique in their own right. I spent years working in child protection, juvenile justice and in a DV refuge, and it never ceased to amaze me how totally dysfunctional people can be. Across the age groups.

The reasons were many and varied.

Estrangement is the same. It’s very difficult and pointless to assume that all family breakdowns are the fault of one set of people. Life isn’t that simple.🙂

I'm glad you dared too Juliet, it's a good article because it speaks to those who have estranged and those who have been estranged.

It's non judgemental and if I were thinking about reaching out to our ES I would find it a valuable guide.

Thank you Juliet, really good advice there

If you read websites like Stand Alone and the information collated, a larger proportion of people in my age bracket are estranged than any other

Which is relevant here given that I am at the younger end of the age bracket here (late 40s)

The reason often stated by people my age is the disconnect between how we parent compared to how we were parented. The expectations we have of our own children versus the expectations that were placed on us. The simple fact of how these generations view respect differently (the parent generation believing it is owed versus my generation believing it must be earned).

That's why the first article was so good in my opinion, it clearly shows the difference between what adult children want and what their parents are willing to give in terms of expectations and respect.

Younger people are placing more and more priority on good mental health... There is a much larger movement towards therapy, healing and personal growth than there has ever been before.

The majority of adult children estranging do so because of the issues in that article and recieving abuse emotionally because their parents aren't willing to listen to or follow that advice. When your child wants healthy boundaries, reasonable expectations placed on them and the space to prioritise being happy and mentally healthy... they are doing things worthy of earning respect from their parents as adults capable of doing those things and to deny them that is to be emotionally abusive by being controlling.

The entire point of being a good parent is to raise adults who are resilient, independent and emotionally healthy.

I've often been perplexed here reading the stories of those who say they know no reasons but watching those reasons emerge over time.

This is so evident when we look at how many estranged children have come here and tried to help parents on the brink of estrangement to bring things back to healthy relationship... Every single one has been shouted down, attacked personally or otherwise ostrasised by estranged parents, those past the point of help.

Estranged parents here will always say we are here to cause problems or trouble simply for pointing out that those missing reasons are readily apparent and can be worked on should the parent truly want that...

Of course I am not talking about those parents with abusive adult children, they do exist...

But the mere fact that anyone would look at that first article and disagree with it for no actual valid reason is a giant red flag.

Maybe, there is an argument that estranged adult children are not the best people to help those for whom saving the relationship isn't too late... But I would argue that here, they are the better alternative and should be allowed a voice

I’ve never had any expectations of how my kids should treat me - how they treat me is based on their own personalities.

I’ve always respected my kids as being hard workers, great parents, and would never charge in with unsolicited advice.

I know that some ACs, or those in their 40’s, are more focused on their own expectations and mental health, and embrace therapists etc to help them achieve all this.

Fine, but various studies have shown that people are more unhappy and disconnected than ever - so, it’s obviously not working too well for some.

If someone (whatever age) feels the need to estrange someone, then fine. But, they don’t seem to enjoy the relief - they seem to cling onto the angst, wanting more. I’m not clear with what more they want.

I think sometimes ACs view estranged EPs in a different light to what actually is happening.

Plenty of reasons were given for disagreement with the article, you just didn’t seem to understand what people were saying - and that’s fine, no reason why you would.

As for reasons for estrangement, well, I’d guess that both sides can look at the other and make a guess at what’s gone wrong - but the net is not real life. We can only make passing judgements on what is posted.

Which may not be how it is.

There was a disconnect between how we parented and how are parents parented VS but that didn't result in estrangement.

Our boys were raised knowing that respect needs to be earned rather than being a right. In adult relationships all parties are entitled to voice what they would like to receive, and in healthy relationships negotiation and compromise are required to facilitate the needs of all involved.

Those of us who are regular readers of, and posters on the estrangement forum have all seen why some parents may be facing estrangement or have been estranged. That is not a 'gift' that only those who have estranged have.

The problem EP's often have is that what we say is often derided and I have even seen suggestions that because we are estranged, estrangement is what we want for others which is as offensive as it is absurd.

I have yet to see any valid research that demonstrates that the majority of AC estrange because they are receiving emotional abuse from their parents. Do you have any research that validates this claim and what is your or their definition of emotional abuse?

For some, emotional abuse is simply not getting what they want and that applies to AC, parents and GP's.

With regard to your assertion that when EAC post here to try to help Every single one has been shouted down, attacked personally or otherwise ostracised by estranged parents, those past the point of help is absolutely ridiculous and again I ask for you to provide evidence of this.

The fact that for you anyone who disagreed with the first article is a red flag, is IMO because you appear to have tunnel vision when it comes to estrangement which prevents you from ever seeing the issue from the perspective of the EP.

The reasons for disagreement are valid and as I asked you earlier, who are you to say they are not?

No one is denying you your voice as an EAC despite your apparent desire to deny that voice to EP's by for example, repeatedly telling them that any disagreements they have with this particular article aren't valid and are a red flag. A red flag for what?

There's a place for the non estranged, those who are estranged and those who chose to estrange. Those who have experienced estrangement from either side maybe better placed to offer advice, but neither one nor the other is the better alternative and definitely not if they're only able to view estrangement based on their personal experience of it.

I’ve estranged my ex MIL, but I get that most MILs can be wonderful.

I didn’t estrange my mother, difficult as she was, but I know most Mums are lovely.

I estranged my step kids, because of their behaviour, but I know that many “blended families” and stepkids work incredibly well.

Anyone judging entire groups based on their own experience of a few are naive at best and disingenuous at worse.

When writing an article for/to estranged parents, it makes no sense to talk about the EC and what they could or should do. EP have no control over that, so of course the author would focus on what the EP can do. It’s all they have power over.

MercuryQueen

When writing an article for/to estranged parents, it makes no sense to talk about the EC and what they could or should do. EP have no control over that, so of course the author would focus on what the EP can do. It’s all they have power over.

The power always lies with the estranger. They are volunteers to the choice. Those estranged have no choice.

Whatever the reasons for the estrangement.

It's not a power game

Viewing it as such doesn't help anyone

That's right DL EAC and EP's have the right to be heard and even if what they have to say is disagreed with, they have the right to express their opinions without them being written off as invalid, just because some disagree with them.

It's not a game VS at least is shouldn't be but the power does lie with the one who estranges because if that is what they want, there's nothing those being estranged can do about it.

That sort of thinking is a huge downfall for those who have a chance at reconciliation

Taking the advice in the article and putting it into practice would be a message most estranged adult children would listen too...

Contrary to belief, most of us don't actually want to be without those family relationships. It goes against every instinct to walk away from parents. The article teaches how to parent adult children effectively and reduce conflict extremely well

Why do you think the adult children here agree with it? We needed that

Exactly VS, because the article assumes that EP's don't know how to parent adult children effectively. It's a very narrow approach to estrangement and we stopped parenting our children when they became adults.

All of us here on GN are adult children, we are all adults and the children of our parents, but not all of us agree with the article.

If the article doesn't apply to you that is one thing...

Not agreeing with it is something else entirely

I am willing to bet that everyone who doesn't agree with it has some unhealthy relationships along the line somewhere