Support and friendship For Those Estranged

@ruby legend
We know what our daughter told people, she has apparently told them we are dead. Well at least two old friends who we hardly see anymore were told this when she bumped into them once. Imagine their surprise when they then bumped into us a little while later.
She lives 3 hours drive from us and we have never met our SILs family though they have joined in with the online abuse so she could be telling anyone who asks about her parents that we are dead.

Yes that is exactly it, our estranged children write their own script. When we briefly had contact with our daughter over 10 years ago she tried to contact her other sisters but they didn’t want to see her despite us trying to encourage them to do so. Then our estranged daughter turned on us with unbridled fury accusing us of telling them not to see her. No matter what we said she said we were lying. Just one example, there are so many more it gets tedious.

Absolutely RubyLegend. History is re written to such an extent that some EP's don't recognise themselves in their EAC's narrative.

One example in our case was financial assistance freely given being turned into an act of control!!! It was suggested that the money be repaid if that was how it was regarded, but of course no repayment was forthcoming .

We worried about what people were being told too but like you, realised that it didn't matter. Those that knew us and had done for years and family were as shocked at the turn of events as we were.

freedom from that worry is wonderful yes it is .

I have come to the conclusion that the narrative about our behaviour and parenting has been changed so much by the EAC that the reality they have created seems real to them. As in black becomes white and white becomes black.

Looking back through the period we tried to fix things I can now see that many acts of kindness by us were labelled as further reasons for us not to be trusted. When kind gestures are twisted it is really confusing and hurtful. Now I understand that it is a sign of a sick mind.

I did worry about what they were telling people and how they would explain our disappearance from family life - we were happily involved with in-laws. Thing is, it doesn't matter. If others want to believe that we have had a sudden personality change, that's their problem. Time helps with all of these thoughts and freedom from that worry is wonderful.

@Spring20 I don’t think that an estrangement affects our grown children the same way. Is expected that our grown children will leave us/move away and if they find us not to their liking nobody will question the fact they don’t see their ageing parents, many even if not estranged don’t see much of their parents. So they can get on with their lives believing that what has happened is unfortunate but not abnormal.
For parents it is the least normal thing, they invested so much in their children, believed they would have their love and care as they got older and be a part of their lives as well as their GCs lives.
For this reason, no, I don’t think they tend to think of the harm they have caused.

Hilltop

One thing l find myself doing, not sure if this means I've not fully accepted things yet, when the map on the weather forecast comes up, l look at where l believe my ES now lives to see what the weather is like there.
I've been estranged for five years now and don't suppose I'll see him ever again.
Do any of you do stupid things like that?
( for some reason writing this has made me cry, l thought l was well past that stage!)

Moments like this are normal, as has been said before we are coping with the grief of losing someone still living. I lost my parents many years ago but can still shed a tear when I hear music they liked to listen to or get out the old photo albums.

Smileless2012

There's a bug difference I think in accepting and fully accepting Hilltop .

It's been more than 11.5 years for us and yes, I still do 'stupid' things from time to time; cry for no apparent reason or because someone else's experience of being estranged mirrors ours.

I've accepted that we've lost him and our only GC but I don't think I'll ever be able to fully accept that he no longer loves us, no longer cares or that maybe he never did.

I cried on my estranged daughters birthday this year, I tried to imagine what she was doing but realised that after well over 10 years I really don’t know her at all.
It comes and goes but never goes entirely.
Moving on doesn’t mean forgetting, but it does mean realising that there is nothing more to be done and letting that sit comfortably with you after a while x

For me it took a therapist to say the words ‘they aren’t coming back’, for me to let go of hoping and start living again. It sounded harsh at the time but was actually really helpful. Part of the journey from despair and disbelief….to finally accepting this was a decision they’d made and there was nothing I could do about it.
I sometimes think about whether they ever give a moment’s thought about the pain their choice has inflicted. Not just on us as parents but the entire family. My guess is that if they do, the blame is entirely laid on us. Are they happy? I’ll never know.

There's a bug difference I think in accepting and fully accepting Hilltop .

It's been more than 11.5 years for us and yes, I still do 'stupid' things from time to time; cry for no apparent reason or because someone else's experience of being estranged mirrors ours.

I've accepted that we've lost him and our only GC but I don't think I'll ever be able to fully accept that he no longer loves us, no longer cares or that maybe he never did.

@Whiff
Thank you for sharing your story, such a sadness over many years. My experience with my DIL mirrors your own and at times we've felt naïve, trusting someone whose only aim was to see us off. For you, having it following loss of your husband, must have been exceptionally difficult to bear.

As you say, these things have been going on for generations but thankfully we have space to share and comfort each other.

In time I will learn to be a parent to two, rather than to three. However, I will always be a mother to three.

One thing l find myself doing, not sure if this means I've not fully accepted things yet, when the map on the weather forecast comes up, l look at where l believe my ES now lives to see what the weather is like there.
I've been estranged for five years now and don't suppose I'll see him ever again.
Do any of you do stupid things like that?
( for some reason writing this has made me cry, l thought l was well past that stage!)

Don't regret the years you tried to fix the relationship Babs. The time spent going over the smallest of details throughout their childhood and up to the time you were estranged, trying to see what you did that was so wrong.

It wouldn't IMO be 'normal' if we hadn't done that especially if there are non specific allegations or none at all.

Exactly Smileless and whiff, wise words.
For us has been the same healing starts without you being aware until you stop and think about it. After many years we are now getting on with life, our biggest regret is so many wasted years, so to those at the beginning of this process take care of your well-being, draw strength from those who do love you and don’t feel that your life has to remain in a state of hiatus, we won’t get those years back.
Thoughts with you all xx

Morning everyone.

It really is good to see you posting RubyLegend and Sweetyesterdays and as pleased as we all are that you found us here, it's always upsetting to hear from yet another estranged parent.

Yogin and I are the 'old timers' and have been posting on the support threads for more than 11 years, both of us being estranged at virtually the same time, getting on for 12 years now.

So many estranged parents have been helped over the years, simply by being able to share with others who understand the devastation that estrangement brings.

When the support threads first started, we were all at the very beginning of this painful journey, and none of us could have said that there is light at the end of the tunnel, because none of us had seen it, but it is there.

The time when healing begins is different for everyone Sweetyesterdays and for me, it had already begun before I realised it was happening.

Not thinking about our ES every minute of every day. Realising at the end of a day, then a few days and then an entire week that I hadn't thought of him at all, all happening over a long period of time.

Give yourself time, allow yourself to grieve. Estrangement is described as a living bereavement because we are grieving for the child we've lost whose still living, and we experience those 5 stages of grief; denial, anger, bargaining, depression and finally acceptance.

for you all

Had to post as was reading the other page.
. Sweetyesterdays this is safe place like I said to RubyLegend just post what you want it's your space and you are safe and understood here. Smiles and other long termers here have made it a haven for us. But it's not a doom and gloom thread and talk about not just estrangement but what we want to . You will never be judged and will be given advice if you want it but the main thing your will have support and friendship.

My parents made mistakes bringing up me and my brother but we would never have hurt them by saying anything it would have been cruel. You bring your baby home from hospital then you do the best you can and instill into your children good values. But the main thing is love and attention you give that unconditionally . Babies do not come with hand books or reset buttons there is no such thing as a perfect parent and definitely not a prefect child. Our estranged child thinks they are prefect parents but they are not and one day I know my grandsons will tell them all the things they did wrong and hope they feel the pain they have caused.

We live in a throw away society and parents are now thrown away . But it has always happened it's just we are able to talk about it openly . This thread has enabled me to talk about my son and have been amazed at the number of people who have told me they are estranged from various family members. It's not longer a taboo subject or anything to be embarrassed about .

I remember years ago hearing people say they never saw their children even though they lived close by and not understanding how a child could do that . But of course I now do.

I am happier letting go of my son and stopped hoping to even seeing him or my grandsons ever again. But I am lucky I have a loving,caring daughter,son in law and 2 grandson's who I see regularly. After the email my son in law said he knew things where wrong years ago but wouldn't say anything to hurt me . That's the difference between who my children fell in love with. But even though estranged from my son I know my grandsons are well cared for and loved as they are my son and daughter in law's world.

RubyLegend it took me months of sending Smiles PMs before I could post openly and haven't shut up yet with my rambles 🤣. I am glad you felt able to post but take your own time about what you want to reveal. People here understand what you are going through . The support thread has been a lifeline for me and has helped me come to terms which my estrangement from my son . His choice not mine . The hardest thing for me was realising my son was a cruel coward as he ended our relationship via email. He hadn't got the guts to face me. But I know why because he couldn't have done it if he had. He not only dumped me but all our side of the family.

I know only to well about the thread saying estranged parents should apologise but it was started by someone who did the estranging and not on the receiving end of it. So they have no idea how parents feel.

I would never apologise to my son if he every got in touch as I have nothing to apologise for . Don't let anyone make you feel you are to blame for the actions of your adult child . They have made their choice not you. My son's email was full of re written family history and assumptions of how I reacted to various things in their lives. I last spoke and saw my son on my birthday end of April 2020 covid restrictions where in place so we had to sit apart and couldn't touch . Had a lovely time with him he even said about putting paving in my garden to make it safer for me. But I said I would get it done as he worked and my daughter in law plus they had my 2 grandsons and a third due end of July . I now realise he must have written the email already to send which he did 4 days later. Had a text telling me he was sending an email and not to contact him and he sent his sister one. But they hadn't been close for years because of my daughter in laws jealousy of my daughter. But I didn't know how far they had drifted apart as they hide it from me so as not to hurt me. As went we where all together they all behaved.

One of his accusations was about what my husband and I hide about his dad's cancer . I asked my daughter if she wanted to know anything about it she said no as dad didn't want us to know and knew we were protecting them . My husband died when our daughter was 20 and son 16 they knew from when they where 17 and 13 their dad won't live 5 years. He was 47 when he died at home with me and the children. I had to tell him to stop struggling as he couldn't breath on full oxygen and we would be ok he died a few minutes later.

My son was 32 when he sent the email if he had really wanted to know about what his dad went through he wouldn't have taken all those years to ask. But I promised my husband they would never know. It's what parents do we protect our children even when they are adults and have children of their own .

What makes me laugh is my son and daughter in law think they are the perfect parents but there is no such thing . I saw and know things they did wrong bringing up 2 of my grandsons but the last time I saw my grandsons they where 4&2 and never seen or even know the name or date of birth of their brother .But I have given him a name because it hurts to much too think of him without one.

In his email he told me he loved me but didn't like me which was fine and to give him some months. I thought ok so waited until it was his birthday and second sons birthday the same day in August and sent cards and birth presents for my grandson . I had put in a short letter in my sons card not mentioning the email but telling him the results of the bubble echocardiogram as when he sent the email he knew they had found a problem with my heart. And how the cheque was to be dividend. The day after their birthday everything came back all unopened and the babies presents crushed. With a short letter saying he didn't want my vindictive and manipulative behaviour anywhere near me or my family ever again . Zero contact.

I never sent a card or presents since for any occasion. But have contacted him 3 times via text . Twice because I needed his bank details as I sold his dad's number plate . What hurt was he sent them and put thank you . That thank you hurt me after all his viciousness but it proved to me he only sent it because money was involved. I was born disabled but until April 2022 didn't have a diagnosis as it's rare. So I text him to tell him I was sending a copy of my neurologists letter and how to get tested if he wanted to . Ironically it was my son who took me to see my neurologist the first time. I had silence back. Last autumn I decided ai was the only one hurting so made the decision to sent a text just asking how they where but decided if I had silence or abuse back I was done with them . I had abuse . So once I make a decision I have to stick to it it's how my life has always worked. I still love my son but the son I knew for 32 years not who he is now he is a stranger but I am no longer the mom he knew . I miss my grandsons but they have probably told them I am dead or I don't care. My only hope is he has told them about his dad.

@Babs03
Thank you, it is a completely unnatural process and one you enter relucatantly. It is a comfort to know that others are on that path too, all at different stages but understanding of what you have gone through and that there is light at the end of the tunnel. x

@RubyLegend
Reading your words, and the words of others on here, I feel saddened that it happens so often to others, and yet comforted by the fact that we are not alone. It feels counterintuitive to have to protect ourselves from our children but unfortunately that is what we must do in order to get on with our lives and enjoy what is left to us.
Take care x

Babs03, we went through a similar process with the apologies to the stage we were beginning to think we'd lived in a parallel universe to them.

We were in the clutches of an abuser and even getting to the stage of admitting that was painful. You don't like to think that someone you welcomed into your family, loved unconditionally and supported over many years might actually hate you. Horrid to think, but liberating to acknowledge and resolve to not feed that monster any more.

That tenuous feeling of being fundamentally lacking as a parent, of not reading the signals, of losing contact with my AC led to a nervous breakdown. That has been the catalyst for me, leaning into the grief and the loss so I can have a calmer, better life.

Living any other way is not a life.

Hi Allsorts,
I agree, there can be an element of not wanting to make time to be there, that we didn't pass the threshold of being worthwhile in their busy lives.
I'm sorry to hear you lost your husband and together with the loss of your GC it must feel a double blow. I do look back on the carefree days when I thought we had a good life with them and were supportive, loving parents. Like you , there was no sign we would ever be estranged.

The whole apology conundrum was done to death by us, we apologised even though we didn't know why our daughter was being so nasty/abusive, she made lots of accusations but they were generally just calling us rubbish parents, no specifics. My DH even wrote a heartfelt letter saying sorry. No apologies from her side, just more abuse, more accusations.
We have looked back so many times, trying to see where things went so wrong, analysing everything we did or didn't do, blaming ourselves for being fundamentally lacking in some way.
Looking back doesn't help.
It is time to look forward to a better, calmer life, healing may always be work in progress but we'll take that.

I think some might estrange as they don't want to bother with us as we get older. My d said to me once, do not expect me to run around after you when you're old just because I’m the girl, at the time I had my gc every weekend and holidays, plus working every day, plus I had my husband then.. Now I’m on my own and i worry when no one is there for me, I do think back to that as there was no sign we would ever be estranged

Sweetyesterdays

Hello @rubylegend i’m so sorry to hear you are going through this too. So am I. I haven’t posted here yet as I am afraid to admit it is happening :-( it’s so tough, may I ask how long it has taken you to reach the ‘healing stage’? I want to be there so desperately.

Hello Sweetyesterdays,
It is a huge shift in our lives to accept what's happening, to accept the unacceptable.
This came into our lives around 18 months ago. An inocuous event within the family led to a trickle then flurry of accusations. Despite heartfelt apologies and reassurance, it's now clear that this was just a gateway event to us being totally excluded from our AC's life.

Since then we have been on a merry go round of trying to fix things, those being torn apart and rejected and finally a realisation that we had no choice. We had been on a path to being estranged, but only wakened up to that fact many months into the process.

Getting to the healing stage? Significant ill health, seeing the impact on our other AC, realising that this had the power to implode the whole family and a determination that our lives were not going to be defined by someone who didn't like us. Now, with a combination of good therapy, a compassionate GP, wonderful friends and family we are piecing together our lives again. It's not what we wanted or envisaged but it's what we've got and ending up bitter and twisted is definitely not who we are.

The healing stage was presented to me by my therapist - instead of saying I wanted to get better, she suggested that I should look at being healed. I have no idea how I will get there but I will and hope some of what you are reading here will help you too. xx

Smileless2012

Hello RubyLegend you're right that not every AC who estranged their parent(s) wants to fix the situation. If the EAC of those of us who post here did want to resolve this, we wouldn't be estranged would we.

As Babs has posted you don't have to share any details, there will be many similarities between your situation and of those posting here.

It is comforting to know that you're not alone, which I think the vast majority of us think when we're first estranged.

We can only apologise for what we've done or said wrong, and that's only if we know; if they tell us. I don't subscribe to apologising for something I haven't done or said. IMO it sets a questionable precedent for the future and isn't a basis for a healthy and mutually respectful relationship.

Yes, absolutely, although the language is about reconcilliation and compromise. Then you realise YOU are doing all the compromising and whatever agreements are reached, there will always be new perceived slights and new things to apologise for. It's almost like whack-a-mole of issues!

I too have a block when it comes to apologising for things I haven't done. As you say, it would be an endless stream of new wrongs and we would be ground into dust trying to keep up. We're worth a lot more than that.

Sweetyesterdays

Hello @rubylegend i’m so sorry to hear you are going through this too. So am I. I haven’t posted here yet as I am afraid to admit it is happening :-( it’s so tough, may I ask how long it has taken you to reach the ‘healing stage’? I want to be there so desperately.

I understand your reluctance, is so tough to admit to anyone even ourselves, but don’t be afraid, you are in a safe place, and the pain you feel now will lessen, healing will take place though there will always be scars.
I had a v difficult journey, a breakdown that threatened to pull me ever downwards, am still recovering but getting there. That is why your well-being is so important, don’t ever let things get so bad that it breaks you, you deserve better, you deserve to heal.
I only started to heal once I accepted that if I ever exposed myself to my daughters abuse again I would be letting myself down, as well as those around me who loved and cared for me.
You can do this, you might not think you can but you will heal, if I did then anyone can.
Here’s to a bunch of survivors!💪🏽
Take care xx