Estrangers and their 'entitled' expectations

RubyLegends

Of course that doesn't necessarily make you toxic/hostile but there are situations where the lead up to, nature and application of the estrangement is predominantly toxic/hostile. Those estrangements are meant to hurt.

Each situation is different but those who move away and become low contact is miles away from situations where there is an element of punishment and abuse from those choosing to estrange.

Estranging someone is not toxic/hostile

It is removing yourself from the relationship

No one is forced to have a relationship with anyone

If someone realises they are being toxic/hostile to you and estrange you that is actually a healthy choice not a toxic one

VioletSky

RubyLegends

Of course that doesn't necessarily make you toxic/hostile but there are situations where the lead up to, nature and application of the estrangement is predominantly toxic/hostile. Those estrangements are meant to hurt.

Each situation is different but those who move away and become low contact is miles away from situations where there is an element of punishment and abuse from those choosing to estrange.

Estranging someone is not toxic/hostile

It is removing yourself from the relationship

No one is forced to have a relationship with anyone

If someone realises they are being toxic/hostile to you and estrange you that is actually a healthy choice not a toxic one

However you want to phrase it - that depends on the nature of the estrangement. My experience is of a particularly destructive period in our lives, it was toxic, it involved blackmail, it involved threats. So yes, estrangement CAN be toxic/hostile.

Estrangers make their choice and and if it's healthy for them, then it obviously works for them. I can't think of when a relationship could be classed as forced. Anyone can walk away at any time if its the best thing for them.

But being estranged by people whose behaviour is toxic and hostile is certainly anything but healthy.

I agree RubyLegends, for us it was toxic and abusive, unfortunately not all people just walk away, some have to trample all over the the people they are estranging before they go, emotionally and mentally.

RubyLegend I have been estranged by a toxic person and it was nothing but a relief

I mourned the relationship I should have had but I never once missed the toxic behaviour before it

I am healed from that relationship now though and it was not my child so I had no responsibility for raising them

@VioletSky
It sounds as though it was a blessed release for you and you have found a fufulled life beyond that.

I also did not raise the AC who has estranged us so have no responsibility for that or the way they were rasied.

So many things trace back to ACEs

Indeed.

And many trace back to toxic AC’s or in-laws.

Every estrangement is different, as has been said so many times before.

Vs as you said no one can speak for everyone. Your experience is your own; estranged parents its their own. The main worry of an abused child is that not having that love and security from birth it gives them no experience to draw on later in life. Everyone knows how important a happy, safe childhood should be. Sone people just shouldn't have children.
If you’re an estranged parent you miss all that love you had and the happier times shared and its hard letting go which we must as it’s decided for us. The majority of mothers do put their children's needs first but we all make the odd mistake as we are not perfect and some children expect them to be. ..Thankfully grandchildren form their own views.

I don't think I would have had the strength to estrange if my children hadn't told me they didn't like her

Children are much more emotionally intelligent these days

Some children do seem much more emotionally intelligent these days it's just a pity that some AC/parents aren't.

We are and do take responsibility for how are children are raised but that does not make us responsible for the choices they make in adult hood.

There are positives as well as negatives that can be traced back to ACE's, when for example the cycle of abuse is broken because an adult refuses to become a perpetrator because they were once a victim; the cycle of estrangement can be broken too.

As has already been said on this thread, estranging can be hostile and toxic and that's not because of a belief that everyone's entitled to have a relationship with whoever they want.

It's time that this estrangement myth was put to bed. Not all EP's are abusive and toxic, sometimes the EAC and/or their partner are the ones responsible for abusive and toxic behaviour

That's why I spent a lot of time getting help, my children are amazing and deserve an amazing childhood

The love I felt for them and the fact that I could never treat them the way I was treated helps immensely

Fortunately I am quite emotionally intelligent as an autistic person because we work harder to read signs and signals. Like a lot of autistic people, I cannot as easily walk in someone's shoes but what I can do is take a special interest in helping someone to the point that I will educate myself for hours

Some people don't want my help or like it I suppose but I have learned that is only unsafe people

Some people don’t want help from random internet posters for a variety of reasons..

It doesn’t make them always unsafe, and it doesn’t mean the person trying to help, who doesn’t actually know all the facts, is always right.

Each family is different. 🤷‍♀️

Diamondlily

Is that a response to me?

I was actually talking about real life people, not internet people... My mother and brother for one because I tried for so long to have a good relationship

So that response wasn't warranted

I don't agree that just because someone doesn't want help, that makes them an unsafe person. It maybe that the help being offered isn't appropriate for their needs. It maybe that the person offering the help is an unsafe person.

TBF VS as your post didn't mention your mother and brother I don't see any thing wrong with DL's response.

In my experience it has only been unsafe people who treat me that way

People stuck in a victim mentality like my mother was, unable to face their own wrongdoing and living an untruth

I don't really mind if other people want to misinterpret something I say without simply asking because it doesn't reflect badly on me

I don’t really understand this consistent theme I see (on this forum exclusively) that an adult child cutting a parent out of their life is “toxic”—but the age-old “falling out of touch” style is just fine? As previous posters have pointed out, estrangement has always existed. It’s just that now, technology has evolved so that it is much harder to do the “drift apart”. People who don’t respect boundaries or feel they shouldn’t apply to them can use phone, email, texting, etc to continue chasing someone who is trying to leave their life, which is why I think many choose to make the “cut-off” explicit. They may also feel that it’s more fair to be clear about the estrangement than to leave the person estranged wondering where they are, perhaps. Either way, it’s not toxic or abusive to leave a relationship. I am entitled to no one, not my husband nor my children, and I keep that in mind when I choose how I treat them. It is only my children who are entitled to my care and love—because I asked for them, they didn’t ask for me. If they choose to leave me when they grow up, that is their right. We all are free to remove ourselves from a relationship.

Certainly there may be those who end said relationship in a toxic way (I saw blackmail mentioned), but I should think that if they are such a person, you’d be glad to be estranged from them. I certainly wouldn’t want anyone who tried to blackmail me in my life, and I’ve been heartily relieved to get away from them in the past.

Also, does anyone have a definition for “toxic”? It does get bandied about quite a lot for such an amorphous term, lol.

@VioletSky Kudos to you for putting in the work—I also spent a long time in therapy and educating myself before making the choice to have children. As you said, they deserve an amazing childhood. I’m sorry you didn’t receive that as a child; you deserved it, too.

My parents were not perfect and didn’t have all the resources I had when I became a parent, but they also sought counsel and help before having my brother and I. They were married a decade before me! They also were extremely proactive about educating themselves while raising us, and are quick to apologize or express regret for the things they would have done differently now. Both my brother and I are extremely close with them, and look forward to caring for them as they continue to age.

I contrast this with my husband’s parents, who—despite calling him their “do-over baby”—have always been extremely resistant to any change or self-examination. They feel he should be grateful for their abuse, since they brought him into this world, and see him as an extension of themselves (or in his mother’s case, a replacement husband). I’m fortunate that my husband had already distanced himself greatly by the time we reconnected as adults, because they were ghastly to be around even when I was a teen and they were on “guest behavior”.

If you have been truly estranged, no problem, cut them out of your will. Leave a letter explaining why. You could leave their share to their children, your grandchildren, or you could simply share it between any other children who have not estranged you.
If your child doesn’t want you in their life, I can’t see why they would want your money after you die.

No parent is ever perfect are they inkhooves and both EP's and EAC often describe the AC whose estranged or the parents/in laws who have been estranged as toxic.

As has already been said, estrangement per se isn't toxic but the method used can be. It's can be the case that no reason for the estrangement is given, and I agree that it's much fairer for those reasons to be given, rather than leaving the one who has been estranged guessing.

Yes, there comes a time when there is relief of not having to deal with a toxic person, defined a someone who is harmful or unpleasant in a pervasive insidious way, but when that person is your own child or parent, the relief wont always supersede the love you have for them and/or the vacuum their absence leaves in your live.

It certainly seems from the contributions made to this thread by those who have estranged that an inheritance wouldn't be welcomed maddy, which may help to put to rest any concerns EP's might have about disinheriting their EAC as well as dispelling the often stated claim that doing so is 'wanting to have the last word', 'revenge' and/or 'leaving a message that the EAC isn't loved' all of which have been said here on GN in the past.

Does no one consider that being told reasons but then being estranged anyway might make it harder?

It's a possibility but as EP's who weren't told the reason(s) why, we would have preferred to have known.

If there's anything the conversations on this site have taught me it is this.

If someone has decided to end a relationship, there is no benefit to be had on either side from providing the "reasons why".

Some people won't hear a negative word about their own behavior. Some people can't help but reflect any issue you have back at you. Some people will find a way to be the victim in any situation. Giving reasons only provides more opportunity for the stranger to have their decision undermined.

If you can't resolve the issues on the relationship before it gets to the point of estrangement, there is no point. Some relationships aren't meant to last forever.

It's best for all to just let it die and move on to better times rather than torturing yourself trying to change a person who doesn't want to change.

I thought the above issues would be why a person estranged someone in the first place.

And therefore User138562, there is absolutely nothing to be gained from a parent leaving property or money to the adult child who has estranged them.
I believe that was the original question asked by the OP.

maddyone

And therefore User138562, there is absolutely nothing to be gained from a parent leaving property or money to the adult child who has estranged them.
I believe that was the original question asked by the OP.

Yes, I think the original question got lost somewhere on this thread. 🙂