Daughter won't communicate with me at all

No VS, if you can't see what's happening here it's pointless trying to explain it to you.

You are being unreasonable now VS, you have been asked a very simple question and look at the chaos around it .

It us really best not to engage. I have reported this as its unreasonable and unfair on people that come on here for support.

I can see exactly what is happening

Another pile on because I responded to someone else's comment

I haven't actually done anything wrong

I'm not sure reporting a pile on against me for one innocent comment is going to get the response you think

I think that's the right thing to have done Allsorts as is no longer engaging.

Bridie22

I'm going to be open with you VS if it gets me reported or banned so be it.
In the past when you have been banned/reported you have blamed, physical, mental and autism
I cannot decide whether I believe this, my inner gut is telling me you are an intentionally disrupting person and on that note I will as you asked earlier..ignore you in future.

I feel sorry for some new posters. They come on, obviously distressed about being estranged, and then endless threads get derailed, and become an argument about things that have nothing to do with the OP, or what they asked, in the first place. 🙄

Many, on here, have health issues, of varying types - including me. When I get days where I don’t feel well, I don’t post anything, anywhere.

Simple solution. 👍

As I posted previously to the OP. If she hasn’t run screaming yet, she would be far better posting on the support thread.

Discussions about the physical/mental health of posters would be better posted in the health section.🤷‍♀️

Or use the PM function to chat to me direct rather than talking about me or making personal comments?

My personal comments will be made to appropriate people.

I agree DL about usually posting about health comments in the health section normally, but these comments related and affected the course of this thread

Yes, it did. Which is unfortunate, because the original post has been lost in all this.

It’s not the first time though. 🙄

I agree and it needs to stop, vunerable people in need of support should not be uncomfortable whilst seeking support, many sadly do not return.

Bridie22

I agree and it needs to stop, vunerable people in need of support should not be uncomfortable whilst seeking support, many sadly do not return.

Hopefully, she and some others, will use the support thread.🙂

Oh my goodness. I've never commented on this forum but have been a frequent (every thread) reader for a long, long time now. I've seen "lurkers" motives questioned in the past so just to say: I stay because I am always on the look out for estrangements that have reconciled. These threads usually end up being EACs trying to push people towards reconciliation, and EPs trying to push people towards acceptance. I have seen perhaps one update from somebody reconciled. What has been useful is seeing, from the outside, where the discrepancies lie in how different estranged people approach communication.

It is bizarre to read your interactions! If none of the EPs here can see that you're dog piling VS, and have been for several pages in increasingly nasty ways, then I would invite them to go back five or so pages and a do a little tally of how many people are telling VS (and VS alone) that she's messed up. VS, the way fingers have been pointed at you being autistic as the crux of this feels incredibly nasty. However, I am unsure why you would mention it when speaking to people who you KNOW have not understood this line of reasoning in the past. There is a clear double empathy problem, but I still don't understand why you would even attempt to use it as a shield against people who have historically turned it into a weapon?

Regarding the direction of the thread, I could not be more confused by the idea that the mere mention of abusive behaviour was what immediately derailed the post just because the OP didn't mention abuse. Many EPs have said "try taking a look at the support thread where you will get reassurance and support". That, and the complete lack of EAC input on that thread, implies to me that there is a distinction between the threads. Surely, since EACs have respect for the EP boundary of wanting a space where they can vent with no outside perspective, then EPs ought to have respect for the EACs ability to contribute however they like on any other thread? Would it not make sense to assume that people on the support thread enjoy their echo chamber and find it supportive, beneficial, safe, and people making new threads actually want new opinions?

Saying "we can only reply to the information we've been given" to me seems inefficient, dishonest and short-sighted. To that point, I don't think I've ever seen a single EP post about their estrangement on this forum and say "I think my behaviour was abusive", so OBVIOUSLY abuse should never be mentioned anywhere on this forum because it's not ever relevant to the OP, as this forum solely consists of EPs with mentally unstable/manipulated by spouse/built from pure entitlement EACs...?

I didn't understand the perspective of the other person in my estrangement until somebody made a completely random comment, unrelated to anything I'd said. It was so tangential that I had never considered it, would never have known to consider it regardless of how much self-reflection I did, and was so relieved to finally have a concept to make sense of. Just because veteran estranged people are far removed enough from the original estrangement to no longer be chewing themselves up over the estrangement (though some posts here are so repetitive it seems clear they are ruminating and remain deeply affected) or have forgotten what it is to be desperately trying to find any way to make it stop, doesn't mean they get to rush newly estranged people into that same place of acceptance. Of course most would be better off for it, but hearing things you don't like and that feel unfair and judgemental and believing that your situation is different and more fixable than everybody else's is PART OF the estrangement journey. It is part of self-reflection to wonder if unpleasant things could be true, on BOTH sides of the estrangement. Everybody who posts here is an adult capable of looking after their own feelings, they do not need protection from feeling bad feelings. Bad feelings are fine and normal to feel when they result from somebody making a GENERAL statement about things that have contributed to GENERAL estrangement. The shame, guilt, disgust, self-loathing that we feel when we wonder "has my behaviour been abusive?" is not the end of the world and is not something to run away from. We can use those feelings to help us decide whether or not there is any truth, and even if it is true, even if we have been abusive, know that it doesn't mean we are inherently bad people. Perfectly normal people can run out of coping strategies and behave in ways they didn't realise were abusive, and they are still normal people. Abusive behaviour in and of itself does not make a person evil, unforgivable, beyond help. The attitude that does contributes to people staying stuck where they are is the one that treats it as though any person capable of abuse is an unspeakable, irreconcilable evil. Of course the idea of accepting such a thing about oneself is too painful to bear when there is no lens of compassion for the abusive behaviour too. We can all change, whether we are aiming for reconciliation or acceptance alike.

Sorry just realised I don't know how to do the username in bold thing...! And think I remember seeing that you prefer Violet to VS, apologies if so.

Thank you for your input Meseren, what is dog piling?
Does it mean a pack attacking 1 ?

It's unpleasant for new and established posters DL. Even those of us who've been living with estrangement for years still have times when the pain is overwhelming, and that can surface when opening up about our own experiences to try to help and support others.

As you say Bridie, some don't return and who knows how many never post at all because they're understandably put off by some of the responses they see here.

I think that is what 'dog piling' means but that hasn't happened here as anyone reading through this thread will be able to see.

Well, as you know, I’ve estranged people, and been on the other side of it, via DH and my ex.😗

I don’t understand the concept of “ Saying "we can only reply to the information we've been given" to me seems inefficient, dishonest and short-sighted.” (Quoted).

What else can you respond to? 🤷‍♀️

It’s a forum - the written words are all there is on here.🙄

Hi and thanks for the reply, Bridie! Dogpiling (in the way I used it) refers to multiple people joining in with directing critical comments toward a single person. In this case, I'm referring to the way that one commenter wondering whether Violet's input/timing was necessary/useful turned into multiple commenters repeating or expanding on the same critique (e.g. whether Violet's self-reported communication style could be part of the reason why posts are derailed when she comments). To be clear, I am not sharing an opinion on whether the critiques are true, false or a mix of both. It is only my opinion that having multiple people imply and question you on whether you feel that you specifically may or may not be the common factor in threads being derailed feels rather like dogpiling.

From having a quick Google though, dogpiling in the broader sense can also refer to the more physical and less directed concept of people all piling into an unfathomable heap until nobody can make heads nor tails of what's going on, which I think is the sentiment echoed by most posters here!

DiamondLily, well first off - I wish I could detail every salient aspect of my estrangement in a single post (though if I could, chances are I wouldn't be estranged!) but since I can't, that wouldn't mean that things I have not mentioned are therefore irrelevant or non-existent. Of course, we don't put words in people's mouths, but we can talk generally about things that may be relevant (even if unmentioned) on the understanding that most people aren't writing their life's novel in a single post.

Anyway, my thinking with the opinion you quoted is that the majority of the people who post on these threads are here because they have experienced estrangement, so what you respond to is what pretty much every poster here already responds to. Most people are not just responding to the written words in the OP like robots, but also to the personal thoughts, feelings, memories and experiences that the OP draws from them. That is the strength of places like this - when speaking to somebody who has never experienced estrangement, it often feel like they simply can't understand the nuances of actually experiencing estrangement and we might feel that in their responses, no matter how sympathetic. Their reflections would certainly rely on the written word of a post alone. However, when a person can use their own experiences to strengthen the empathy they share with OP, of course that means that some things they say won't be tied to OP's exact wording of their experience.

When EPs post to say their AC cut contact because they felt entitled to money/care/unlimited resources from their parent, that doesn't mean that EPs who respond by sharing how their AC was manipulated into estrangement by their spouse are therefore making irrelevant statements just because the OP made no mention of manipulation. Perhaps that EP had never considered that their child could be experiencing manipulation and the new perspective is useful to hear, despite it seeming initially irrelevant to their understanding of their situation.

Long story short! One of the strengths I have seen from this forum comes from people sharing their own experiences as a way of informing others, and others being able to take or leave the information as they wish. I personally prefer to have more information than I need, even if some of it is less relevant. There are so many kind hearted people here who want to offer their support, and do so in different ways. As an outsider, I really appreciate this variety of experience and perspective as it can be so much richer than the forums for EPs or EACs alone. I can appreciate that others may feel overwhelmed and only want the bare necessities. Though I would again say, echoing many others here, that the support thread seems the most fitting place for those posters.

No, I wouldn’t expect you (or anyone else), te talk about every aspect of your estrangement, any more than I would.

But, if you (or anyone else) writes that they have been estranged, it’s come out of blue, and you haven’t got a clue what’s happened - I wouldn’t suggest, either, that they must know, or that they must have done something wrong, or that they need to apologise for what they don’t know about.

It’s fine for real life friends and family to perhaps do that, if they know the whole situation, but would be, I think, inappropriate for random posters to just put their slant on it.🙂

well I see the sense in saying we should only respond to what the OP tells us DL because we often see posters making judgements and assumptions that have no relation to what's been shared. This is one reason why threads can deteriorate because some posters are bringing their own experiences in which are irrelevant.

I agree Meseren that people being prepared to share their own experiences to assist others is a good thing but not when, as happened here and sadly is a common occurrence on these threads, those experiences are used to judge others.

For example and EP judging an EAC based on their AC's behaviour, which I have not seen or an EAC or partner to an EAC judging EP's based in their experiences, which I have seen.

Although predominantly frequented by EP's the support thread is for anyone whose life's been affected by estrangement and over the years we've had EAC who've benefited as well as the EP's.

It is very much a safe place for people to post, not immune from controversy but thankfully that doesn't happen very often.

RubyLegends

@Smileless and @Allsorts

I echo what you have said. Some of the questioning actually feels similar to the pattern of behaviour I have experienced from my AC and partner. Respect is demanded by them for their point of view while mine is thrown back as being flawed and wrong.

The reference by @VioletSky to 'honest truth' - I have no idea what that means. Of course you are worth listening to, no one is trying to shut you down. By implying some truth is more honest that other truth, the message becomes patronising.

The OP came here looking for answers and I wouldn't be surprised if her trauma has been added to when all she needs is understanding and to be believed. She loves her AC with all her heart and her heart is breaking. A few words of comfort and support will mean the world to her and I hope she has been able to glean a few elements of other EPs' experiences which will help her through it all.

Smileless, I would interpret the first part of this comment as judging an EAC based on the commenter's own AC's behaviour? I'm not acknowledging it to make a judgement on its occurrence, just acknowledging the possibility that it may well be happening on both sides depending on your lens.

Also, my point was mainly to say that it's difficult to know what is irrelevant from the limited information included in a post, which was what I meant by saying that "unmentioned" does not immediately equate to "irrelevant". Some people interpret "irrelevant" contributions as purposefully intended to cast suspicion on OP and derail their post, with the commenter knowing full well that their point is entirely irrelevant. Others interpret "irrelevant" contributions as the commenter sharing information in the knowledge that it may or may not be relevant, but doing so just in case it is. Either could be true, of course, only the commenter can know their own intentions.

I understand that over the years some EACs have found benefit from the support thread and I think that's great! I wonder, though, if it is mostly frequented by EPs because most EACs consciously keep their distance, knowing that they tend to have a different experience of estrangement (if they are the ones who initiated it) and EPs benefit from their own space. Though it is certainly open to all, in practice it is for EPs and it seems to me that what makes it a safe space for EPs is that the EP/EAC overlap is significantly limited in comparison to the wider threads. It also seems that, even though it's not your experience, there are other EPs whose comments on this thread imply that they specifically appreciate the support thread for its absence of EACs. I think that's quite fair, personally!

No, we can all relay our own experiences, if relevant, but it’s not really kind or appropriate to link it to a totally different estrangement. That’s just projecting your own circumstances back onto others.

Then the thread gets derailed.

All estrangements, whatever way around, are different. No two are the same.

The blame can lie in either direction, or, sometimes, both.

Which is why I tend to just reply to the question or whatever in the original post. I don’t suggest things, that have never been referred to, in the first place. 🙂

meseren - as I’ve said, I have estranged people, and been on the other side with being estranged, so I do understand that it can affect both generations.

But, the original post was from an EP being estranged by her DD. So, that’s what I replied to. 🙂

If an EAC came on with a question/needing support, I’d reply to that.🙂

As would I DL and have done so on numerous occasions.

Posters on the support thread myself included, appreciate for the vast majority of the time the absence of the unpleasantness we've seen here, and often see on threads of this nature Meseren. If someone's being unpleasant their estrangement status is irrelevant; EP or EAC or with no personal experience.