Meseren
Oh my goodness. I've never commented on this forum but have been a frequent (every thread) reader for a long, long time now. I've seen "lurkers" motives questioned in the past so just to say: I stay because I am always on the look out for estrangements that have reconciled. These threads usually end up being EACs trying to push people towards reconciliation, and EPs trying to push people towards acceptance. I have seen perhaps one update from somebody reconciled. What has been useful is seeing, from the outside, where the discrepancies lie in how different estranged people approach communication.
It is bizarre to read your interactions! If none of the EPs here can see that you're dog piling VS, and have been for several pages in increasingly nasty ways, then I would invite them to go back five or so pages and a do a little tally of how many people are telling VS (and VS alone) that she's messed up. VS, the way fingers have been pointed at you being autistic as the crux of this feels incredibly nasty. However, I am unsure why you would mention it when speaking to people who you KNOW have not understood this line of reasoning in the past. There is a clear double empathy problem, but I still don't understand why you would even attempt to use it as a shield against people who have historically turned it into a weapon?
Regarding the direction of the thread, I could not be more confused by the idea that the mere mention of abusive behaviour was what immediately derailed the post just because the OP didn't mention abuse. Many EPs have said "try taking a look at the support thread where you will get reassurance and support". That, and the complete lack of EAC input on that thread, implies to me that there is a distinction between the threads. Surely, since EACs have respect for the EP boundary of wanting a space where they can vent with no outside perspective, then EPs ought to have respect for the EACs ability to contribute however they like on any other thread? Would it not make sense to assume that people on the support thread enjoy their echo chamber and find it supportive, beneficial, safe, and people making new threads actually want new opinions?
Saying "we can only reply to the information we've been given" to me seems inefficient, dishonest and short-sighted. To that point, I don't think I've ever seen a single EP post about their estrangement on this forum and say "I think my behaviour was abusive", so OBVIOUSLY abuse should never be mentioned anywhere on this forum because it's not ever relevant to the OP, as this forum solely consists of EPs with mentally unstable/manipulated by spouse/built from pure entitlement EACs...?
I didn't understand the perspective of the other person in my estrangement until somebody made a completely random comment, unrelated to anything I'd said. It was so tangential that I had never considered it, would never have known to consider it regardless of how much self-reflection I did, and was so relieved to finally have a concept to make sense of. Just because veteran estranged people are far removed enough from the original estrangement to no longer be chewing themselves up over the estrangement (though some posts here are so repetitive it seems clear they are ruminating and remain deeply affected) or have forgotten what it is to be desperately trying to find any way to make it stop, doesn't mean they get to rush newly estranged people into that same place of acceptance. Of course most would be better off for it, but hearing things you don't like and that feel unfair and judgemental and believing that your situation is different and more fixable than everybody else's is PART OF the estrangement journey. It is part of self-reflection to wonder if unpleasant things could be true, on BOTH sides of the estrangement. Everybody who posts here is an adult capable of looking after their own feelings, they do not need protection from feeling bad feelings. Bad feelings are fine and normal to feel when they result from somebody making a GENERAL statement about things that have contributed to GENERAL estrangement. The shame, guilt, disgust, self-loathing that we feel when we wonder "has my behaviour been abusive?" is not the end of the world and is not something to run away from. We can use those feelings to help us decide whether or not there is any truth, and even if it is true, even if we have been abusive, know that it doesn't mean we are inherently bad people. Perfectly normal people can run out of coping strategies and behave in ways they didn't realise were abusive, and they are still normal people. Abusive behaviour in and of itself does not make a person evil, unforgivable, beyond help. The attitude that does contributes to people staying stuck where they are is the one that treats it as though any person capable of abuse is an unspeakable, irreconcilable evil. Of course the idea of accepting such a thing about oneself is too painful to bear when there is no lens of compassion for the abusive behaviour too. We can all change, whether we are aiming for reconciliation or acceptance alike.
I thought this entire comment wonderful and incredibly well written
This is how I also look at these things
