Here we go again

You're right Babs and estranged mothers tend to bear the brunt of criticism because mothers are supposed to be loving, kind, caring and nurturing so if their AC walks away, they must have failed at their primary function.

With regard to successful relationships with other AC, we see suggestions that the EAC was the scape goat especially if they have more than one sibling and if there's only one, the other sibling was the 'golden child'.

When we look at the narrative associated with parental estrangement, we can see how much is geared to favour the EAC and condemn the EP. The parent, usually the mother and if parents in law are estranged, usually the m.i.l. are often labelled toxic, emotionally abusive, controlling and let's not forget narcissistic.

How often have we seen it claimed that EAC never walk away from decent, loving and caring parents and if an EP believes the estrangement is due to their AC's coercively controlling partner, that AC are attracted to abusers because their childhood has led them to believe that abuse is normal.

Like you, we're not interested in how others may judge us but TBF in 'real life' we never have been judged unfairly. It's only online that I see it and although after 12 years for me it's like water of a ducks back, it does rile me when I see how others are being upset.

fancythat

Babs03

Correction - societal bias against EPs.

I never knew that existed.

Neither did I before I became an EP. But of course society will judge EPs harshly, it is alien for parents to be estranged from their ACs, the whole concept of parenting is to always be there to love and support your family. If for some reason an AC is estranged from their parents the onus is on the parents to explain and justify this, not on the AC who many will assume has been abused or in other ways mistreated/neglected. Online there are many forums in which EACs generally wax long about their terrible parents, but sadly hardly any for EPs, who far from saying terrible abusive things about their EACs say how much they miss them and love them, the sympathy is most often for the child not the parents, despite people not being aware of the context.
Here on GN this bias is also there.
However, with 1 in 5 parents estranged from their ACs I think we can assume by the laws of mathematical probability that not all EACs have abusive/terrible parents, something else is most definitely going on. And when parents have other children who are not estranged from them but are also estranged from the EAC we have to consider other possibilities. And those possiblities are that some EACs do just walk away from loving parents.
Tbh both my DH and I now don't care if people judge us, that reflects badly upon them not us, and we hold our heads high knowing that we loved and still love our estranged daughter, but if she is happier without us that is simply the way it has to be.

As they're living at home, not having their parents approval can be problematic especially at 14 Elless. We know of a lady whose GD, grown up and left home, sought her out and sees her without her mother's knowledge.

They've been seeing one another for years but it didn't start until she'd left home.

You could be right about societal bias against EP's Babs. TBH I've never thought about it but it can go some way to explain the bias we often see here on GN.

Treasure the relationships you have, take care to keep thoughts on those who you have no communication with away from those you do to avoid more damage to family systems. All will be well that way. Rather more sensible to vent here or to close friends than risk larger issues.

Babs03

Correction - societal bias against EPs.

I never knew that existed.

I should make it clear that my GC are 18 and 14 so are old enough to make up their own minds. I can see where some people are coming from if, say, the GC were toddlers or babies it would not be possible to see them without co-operation from the EAC.

Correction - societal bias against EPs.

I do believe there is a bias, as an EP it took many years before I could even admit that our oldest daughter wanted nothing more to do with us, and only to a few trusted friends, as well as friends on this forum, I feared that instant knee jerk response, that if our daughter had cut us off that we must have done something awful, despite the fact that our 3 other daughters were also estranged from her. Fact is that after 11 years I now have reached the stage where I feel I owe nobody an explanation, and do not deserve to be judged unless I truly have done something wrong and am in a court of law. I personally know my own story and know that we did everything we could for our daughter as we did for her sisters. Anything else is just speculation based upon a deeply rooted societal bias towards EPs.

Sorry for everything you and your family have been through Whiff.
Sounds like you handled everything very well.

Smileless2012

Sometimes the problems are caused by the assumption that all EP's/GP's are abusive in some way which is why they're estranged.

'I estranged my parent(s); we're estranged from my parents in law/m.i.l. because they're toxic, narcissistic, abusive etc so all those who have been estranged must be bad too'.

Ah.

That is one thing, probably the main thing which has opened my eyes on GN][probably same on other forums as well].

Bias.
I had no idea that so many people can go all the way on this.

Happens on the Political threads as well.
As in, "all things such and such does are wrong".
It is tripe.

fancythat if estrangement is through sexual or physical abuse of course estrangement is the only course of action .

But not everyone abused child does than when they are adults.
My dad was beaten so badly he ended up with a hole behind the back of his right ear and deaf in it . He was also malnourished along with brother and sisters only their youngest brother who had Downs was cherished and well look after by all the family . Dad was the oldest of 7 he took beatings to save his brother's and sisters. He's escape was to fight in WW2 but he never gave up on his father or stepmother . Never knew my dad's dad he died few months after I was born but knew my step nan . A nasty piece of work but dad and my mom went every week and helped out in between and when I and my brother were born we went every week. Until she died . He's oldest sister looked after my uncle so we still went every week . Dad never called it abuse as it sounded like a victim he said they didn't spare the rod . He never felt like a victim.

I grew up with strong family values things we past on to our children. My husband's looked after him but didn't show and love or have him attention but he never gave up on them he didn't like them but loved them . We went every week and if they started on us we walked out but back again the next Sunday. Because he loved them . I looked after his mom because I loved my husband still very much . Even though she denied she ever had a son or had 2 grandchildren and refused to go too their weddings. She died 11 years after my husband. I could have done what a lot do and walked away but I couldn't she needed me her own brother only turned up after she was dead.

Not everyone who had and awful life with their parents walk away . And children do walk away from good parents because it's easy. I am a good mom , mother in law and grandmother. I know who I am and how much I love my family.and how I helped my son and daughter in law not with money but support and love. Still do with my daughter and her family.

If you are now at peace, "Here we go again" doesn't sound like it.

Just an observation. I hope you truly are at peace.

Sometimes the problems are caused by the assumption that all EP's/GP's are abusive in some way which is why they're estranged.

'I estranged my parent(s); we're estranged from my parents in law/m.i.l. because they're toxic, narcissistic, abusive etc so all those who have been estranged must be bad too'.

Good.

In which case I dont understand what the problems sometimes are, on threads like this, between some posters.

Parents who are a threat to the safety and well being of their AC and also to their GC are of course quite rightly estranged fancythat and no one disputes that.

Elless In the end you must decide what is best for you. I hope that you can keep speaking to your GC regardless of your son's decision. Presumably he feels he is doing what is best for him.

Every estrangement is different which is why generalisations from anyone is not helpful. We can all have views of particular choices and behaviours whilst knowing that there are exceptions as well; some acknowledge there are exceptions and some do not which is a subtle difference. You can read those views on here and then take what is useful

Your story is yours and only you can decide what fits your story from those views expressed 💐

Same old thing estranged parents are bad, estranged children good .

If that is what keeps happening on here, that would be nuts.

What if, for instance, the grandparent is a paedophile?[does happen].
Or involved in a dark cult?
I would then give them limited, and very supervised access to my children.

Elless I remember you well and everything you went through. It's not awful to feel a weight has lifted from your shoulders. Living with uncertainty is no way to live . Last year I decided to give up all hope of seeing or hearing from my son ever again. The only person hurting was me and have been happy since I made that decision. My grandsons are now 8,6&4. Last time I saw them was only the 2 eldest they where 4&2 and never meet the youngest or even know his name of date of birth. My son told me in February 2020 they where expecting again baby due in July. And later before the estrangement it was a boy.

I am glad you still have contact with your grandchildren and hope your son and daughter in law don't stop it. I hope you are very happy in your new home .

After reading over the years what other parents have gone through I am glad to have silence . I never dreamed my son would do what he did as 4 days before had a wonderful time with him on my birthday. I have said before what hurt me the most is the realisation that my loving caring son I had for 32 years could be so cruel and cowardly by sending the email and follow up letter . I was accused of sounding like a ex lover on a deleted thread that person had a very twisted mind . But I was just a very hurt mom that my son wouldn't say it to my face . If I have a problem with someone then I tell them I don't hide behind an email and letter.

shabbygirl sorry for all you have gone and going through and had contact with your grandchildren taken away. Living far away helps as zero chance of seeing them on the street. I live in completely opposite direction to my son and daughter so zero change of me ever seeing them which I am happy with. I miss my grandsons very much but they had no choice and the 2 eldest will have forgotten me by now. But I am lucky I have a loving and caring daughter,son in law and 2 grandson's eldest 7 next month and his brother 4 who I see regularly and my daughter checks up on me via text everyday.

To all those who are estranged from family members I hope you can find peace and reach a place were it doesn't hurt so much . Hopefully 2025 will be a better year for all of you .

I am ignoring all the negative comments as usual there are those who would derail this thread . Happens everytime a new thread starts . Same old thing estranged parents are bad, estranged children good . Give me strength.

Are people not allowed to give advice that is contrary to what you think it should be allsorts?

Are these all the same person.? What has happened to the moderators? This is ideal for those that have estranged people and justify why. I stumbled by accident it's nuts. pour Elless bullied off.

The duaghter is much happier than she used to be.

BlessedArt

As much as this is not ideal, you said a two things that are very encouraging. You said you feel a weight is lifted off. You said you communicated directly with your grandchildren that your door is always open to them.

I see both statements as positives. Sometimes we can love people but the relationship may not quite be a healthy one. Love from a distance can be the way for peace. Maybe this is the case with your son. The fact that you feel a weight is lifted to me is a signal that you are on the road to peace. By no means am I suggesting you have an easy path ahead of you, but even despite the sadness of your post I see hope that one day you can move forward with closure. I wish you healing.

I agree with all of this.
I am watching someone from a distance, deal with her difficult relationship with her dad.
Eventually they came to a point they are both "happy" with - a short meet up about once a year, all amicable. Plus occasional, fake, but outwardly, everything is fine, phonecalls.

While there's contact there's always a good chance that things will improve crazy. It's great that you were still allowed to see your GC and that Elles will be able to talk to hers. Not everyone's as fortunate.

I fully agree with stillawip - similar situation years ago - fallout over something so silly, I can’t even remember. A faint recollection about my granddaughter’s exam results, come to mind. Anyway, it led to a breakdown in our relationship (middle son) , but through all that I was allowed to see the children. And from that came the reconciliation. Still not 💯 . I see them on the important - there’s no ‘popping in’ but it’s something. So Elles it could lead to better things……

Elless

Thank you all for the responses. I do know that my son would not stop my GC talking to me, of that I am sure, but I am also sure that my DiL would given the chance, I know she does not like me and I am tired of pretending to like her (again for the sake of upsetting my son). Que sera sera.

Apologies Elless, I have just remembered that you posted this, so it’s great news that you are still allowed to see your grandchildren, and that your son is happy with that. Sometimes it’s just small treasures on the way to bigger ones…