Here we go again

treading on eggshells is enormously exhausting

I have the same with my daughter, first it was for one year then she began speaking to us again then I offended her again, I forget what I said, and she didn't speak to me again for four years. She has lovely children and now she has stopped us seeing them & they live a 3 hr drive away so we don't bump into them.
She has started speaking to me (by phone) again recently because she wanted some family information, but its hard to feel relaxed and enjoy the long phone chats we used to,
I'm the same as you, I just accept it now it is really hard to talk to someone like that as you say, you just always worry about saying the wrong thing.
I think she expects me to plead with her to start speaking to her again and I don't, I just don't want to as I have no idea what to say or not say to avoid a repeat performance. I think she has no idea that she has damaged my relationship with her, she's so bound up in how tough life is for her and how I have added to that stress. My feelings for her are the same as with her siblings I love them all the same, but I don't have the energy for the drama anymore, so I feel like you, at peace.
I sent her a really nice bottle of perfume for Christmas, for which she thanked me by text, & offered to give £10 for each child xmas (which is what I do for all my grandchildren) but she didn't take up my offer as she didn't give me her bank account details.
Perhaps the nice part of your son will come back, I do think its hard to change entirely, completely all in one go cos you can't easily shake off the old bits of you that easily without support, but realisation might sneak back one day.

Message deleted by Gransnet. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

As much as this is not ideal, you said a two things that are very encouraging. You said you feel a weight is lifted off. You said you communicated directly with your grandchildren that your door is always open to them.

I see both statements as positives. Sometimes we can love people but the relationship may not quite be a healthy one. Love from a distance can be the way for peace. Maybe this is the case with your son. The fact that you feel a weight is lifted to me is a signal that you are on the road to peace. By no means am I suggesting you have an easy path ahead of you, but even despite the sadness of your post I see hope that one day you can move forward with closure. I wish you healing.

I'm so sorry Elless . So many EP's live for the day they will be reconciled with their EAC but even when it happens, it doesn't work for everyone.

I understand why you feel that a weight has been lifted and because your story is very similar to ones that I've come across over the years, for me reconciliation is not something I look for.

Healthy relationships have their ups and downs and IMO it's impossible to have a healthy and worthwhile relationship if you spend all your time watching your p's and q's for fear of upsetting someone.

To have been estranged and now be in a situation where he's once again refusing contact with you is cruel to say the least. Go into 2025 with the peace you have found and leave him to the life he has chosen.

I'm pleased that you've been able to contact the GC who when they're old enough may well make contact in the future. These parents don't seem to have any idea of what they may be storing up in the future with their own.

spabbygirl my heart goes out to you because of course you don't know what to say/not say, what to do/not do for fear of causing offence; this is what they want.

It's cruel and unnecessary to use children as weapons in cases like this, cutting them off from the GP's they know and love, just because they can.

As you've posted your D is bound up in how tough life is for her so has no regard for what's happening in the lives others, not even for her own children which is why she stopped them from seeing you.

I don’t think stating her grandchildren are being used as weapons is a decent thing to say when it supposes we know the thoughts and feelings of her son, a complete stranger. We know that he no longer wishes to continue the relationship. We have no idea how he views his children. Never spoke to the man, never read a post from him. Zero insight at all. To suggest a parent we’ve never met views their offspring merely as objects of destruction, rather than the human beings they love, is no better than the other generalisations and insults everyone takes over threads about. It’s an often used inflammatory statement here that cannot be verified or proven by any one of us.

We can offer support without inventing the worst versions of the other perspective.

There's an old saying - "You can't choose your family" - but I'd say that you CAN choose not to slavishly put up with whatever a family member throws at you. There seems to be a weird kind of gene that's rampant on one side of my family. First they're lovey-dovey, then they're tearing raw flesh off each other, then they're lovey-dovey again. It's like a nightmare run of East Enders on a constant loop. If someone refuses to take sides, they're labelled cold and stand-offish by both sides! It's a lose-lose situation for everyone.

My sister in law has been like this all her life - periodically refusing to communicate with her siblings then picking up as if nothing has happened. The family has spent many years "being careful not to upset M". We're currently in a non-speaking phase and her siblings have had enough. If she tries to contact them in the future she will find that their doors have been closed

That's my opinion of anyone who stops their children from seeing the GP's they know and love, just as it's my opinion of a parent who prevents the other parent of their children having contact BlessedArt.

I agree NonGrannyMoll but it must be so hard to know or believe that if you don't put up with whatever a family member throws at you you can lose your AC and GC.

Not everyone's patience is never ending eddie and it looks as if your s.i.l's siblings have finally run out of theirs.

BlessedArt

I don’t think stating her grandchildren are being used as weapons is a decent thing to say when it supposes we know the thoughts and feelings of her son, a complete stranger. We know that he no longer wishes to continue the relationship. We have no idea how he views his children. Never spoke to the man, never read a post from him. Zero insight at all. To suggest a parent we’ve never met views their offspring merely as objects of destruction, rather than the human beings they love, is no better than the other generalisations and insults everyone takes over threads about. It’s an often used inflammatory statement here that cannot be verified or proven by any one of us.

We can offer support without inventing the worst versions of the other perspective.

From a forum, we can only respond to what’s posted. So, perhaps, best to just assume it’s the truth? 🙄

Smileless2012

That's my opinion of anyone who stops their children from seeing the GP's they know and love, just as it's my opinion of a parent who prevents the other parent of their children having contact BlessedArt.

I agree NonGrannyMoll but it must be so hard to know or believe that if you don't put up with whatever a family member throws at you you can lose your AC and GC.

Just because it’s an opinion doesn’t mean it’s not unkind and unproven. Plenty of people have inflammatory opinions based on their own biases. This isn’t different. It’s ironic because it is absolutely along the same vein as what many here accuse new posters of doing. Making generalisations of strangers by attacking a relationship you have no knowledge of isn’t suddenly more acceptable because it’s coming from an EP. If we held ourselves to the standards we hold others we could see so much positive.

You can assume if you like. I choose to be more realistic and accept that a small snippet of a years long situation via short post on the internet doesn’t encompass the entirety of complex issues like family conflict.

And it was not the original poster who initiated the “weapon” talk. It was someone who never met the OP’s son. Assuming worst the thoughts, feelings and then assigning them to people we never met can be viewed as instigation when the recipient is already reeling.

We can offer support without inventing the worst possible details of the other perspective.

The last above post was to you, Diamondlily. I cannot always get quotes attached to my posts when I use my phone hehe

My post was not ^along the same vein of what many accuse new posters of doing* ABlessedHeart.

In the first place, new posters per se are not being accused of anything; previously banned posters and/or trolls are the ones who have been and rightly so. Banned posters have to have a 'new' identity to get back on as do returning trolls so they are not new at all.

This has been explained on numerous occasions and is evidenced by what can be seen on the threads so I have no idea why it appears to be so hard for some to understand.

I know what I've been told and spabbygirl has posted that she has been stopped from seeing her GC. My response is to her post. I am not saying that all EAC do this and I am certainly not naive enough to think that there are no GP's who are not understandably kept away from their GC.

The generalisations that I and others have criticised are the ones that claim all EP's are evil, toxic, narcissists etc. That AC never estrange decent, kind and loving parents and that it's always the EP's who are responsible and to blame.

In order that this thread not be derailed, I wont be responding to you any further ABlessedHeart. I stand by my posts and have nothing further to add.

You should just let it be. You are at peace with it, as you say. I think your son's reasoning matters very little because the end result is the same. You might as well maintain the peace you feel.

I'm sorry for your sadness about your grandchildren. However, I think it is reasonable for a parent to restrict or prevent their child's contact with someone who they don't have a relationship with. That's probably the only reason for that.
Maintaining contact makes sense for some people but not for others. It is really up to the parent to make those decisions.

That doesn't make it less sad, but I think it makes sense.

I agree User. Finding peace when you've been estranged is hard to do and when you do, it's priceless and worth holding on too.

Thank you all for the responses. I do know that my son would not stop my GC talking to me, of that I am sure, but I am also sure that my DiL would given the chance, I know she does not like me and I am tired of pretending to like her (again for the sake of upsetting my son). Que sera sera.

If you can carry on talking to them Elless that would be great, not as great as seeing them of course but you'll be able to maintain the relationship you've established.

To be going through this for a second time must be devastating .

BlessedArt

You can assume if you like. I choose to be more realistic and accept that a small snippet of a years long situation via short post on the internet doesn’t encompass the entirety of complex issues like family conflict.

And it was not the original poster who initiated the “weapon” talk. It was someone who never met the OP’s son. Assuming worst the thoughts, feelings and then assigning them to people we never met can be viewed as instigation when the recipient is already reeling.

We can offer support without inventing the worst possible details of the other perspective.

Fair comment, but all a forum provides is what is said.

Posters write what they do. That’s forums.🤷‍♀️

@Elless so glad you can continue to communicate with your GCs. We had a similiar situation to you inasmuch as we had a fraught relationship with our daughter which led to an initial short term estrangement then we were 'allowed' to see both herself and the GCs again, I wouldn't dignify this situation by calling it a reconciliation, she was constantly finding fault, everything we said or did was wrong and in the end we were so reduced as people that we just took whatever she said in order to be able to see the GCs, but when she started to abuse us online we knew it was game over. But the treading on eggshells - oh my God - that was a regular dance for us and it exhausted us. So I understand what you are saying about having a weight lifted, it didn't feel like that at the time when we were cut off for questionning her online abuse, but after a few years when I woke up without crippling anxiety and dread but a feeling of calm, I knew at that point that living without my daughter, whom I loved and do continue to love despite everything, is so much better for my mental and physical wellbeing than living with her, and for that reason I do not see, after 11 years, that a reconciliation will be on the cards, because the injury she could still inflict upon us, at a much older and more vulnerable age, does not bear thinking about.
But for you perhaps there will be a time when your son once more reconciles with you, however, if he does make sure it is on both your terms for your own wellbeing.
Wishing you all the best xx

Smileless2012

That's my opinion of anyone who stops their children from seeing the GP's they know and love, just as it's my opinion of a parent who prevents the other parent of their children having contact BlessedArt.

I agree NonGrannyMoll but it must be so hard to know or believe that if you don't put up with whatever a family member throws at you you can lose your AC and GC.

So why is it okay for you to carry this opinion and blast it continuously but not okay for others to feel that if parents keep theiir children form relations they themselves have cut off they do so out of love and protection?? We’re one to say “My opinion is that any grandparent who can’t have a relationship with their own children is best kept from that persons children.” See how that is a wrongful assumption ? How do you not see your assumption is equally as inflammatory and unfair?

I do find your posts judgemental Blessed Heart. I take no notice of your bias but its off putting for newly estranged parents. Always thinking the worst of grandparents, what about all those cases we read about where young parents abuse tiny babies, its like saying everyone is like that.
If your adult child estranged you and cut off access to grandchildren what else is it but controlling and upsetting for the children? Not talking abuse obviously, an abuser wouldn't be on here.. The best way to deal with a son or daughter who wants to bin you is have the best life you can, let them get on with it as long as gc are safe., the truth will out when children grow up. You are not alone on here take no notice of trolls.