Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Luminance you have a high opinion of what relevant authorities will do . If someone says they will commit suicide. Like everywhere it's a post code lottery what help is available. Don't worry I will disagree with you when appropriate.

How much you interfer into your children's lives when they are adults is left to the parents. But interfering can do more hard than good.

If it was son I would do nothing because I know full well he wouldn't do it. But it's none of my business anyway . He is an adult and makes he's own decisions . That's what being an adult is about taking responsibility for your choices and actions in life .

Oh dear Whiff, that journey sounds like a real nightmare. Your aunt and uncle must have been worried when you failed to arrive but thank goodness you're safe and sound and can now enjoy your holiday.

Whiff isn't wrong Luminance. Not everyone who commits suicide tells anyone of their intentions or leaves a letter of explanation. Our DS's ex f.i.l. hung himself a few years ago, no one had any idea how depressed he was and he didn't leave a note.

He'd made a point of 'phoning everyone he was close too but gave no indication of what he was planning to do.

Thank you everyone for your condolences, I've passed them onto Mr. S. and he's grateful for your kindness.

Great to hear that Mr. B. continues to improve Babs. Stay strong dear friend; we're all here for you xx

Whiff I am being rather careful, this is not my daughter and not in the UK by the sounds of it. My advice is not to you so please allow me to say it.

Whiff isn't not allowing you to give your advice Luminance she's disagreeing with you.

That has no relevance to the message I am sharing Smileless. It is important to take anyone talking of self harm seriously. I have contrary to Whiff met people who did talk of suicide before making a sometimes successful attempt. I understand the effort to reassure, however it should be reported. Especially to protect a mother should something like that occur to a child. We do not have to feed into it but there are organisations in most countries it may be reported to.

My post Luminance was in response and relevant to you asking Whiff to allow you to say what you've said; she simply disagreed with you.

Luminance you are free to say what you want just because I disagree what does it matter. You have your opinion I just have a different opinion. Everyone has their own opinion about things . It's called human nature.

We all have different experiences and that is how we view the world . Be a sad day if we couldn't say what we know or experienced first hand .

We all have different life experiences and how those experiences have changed how we view things . Some people have experiences I never had but then again no one has lived my life and how I have had to deal with some of my experiences and how I got through things . And how I get through each day.

Whiff I do understand, it is just that I am a MHN, Mental Health Nurse so my experience of suicidal ideation is potentially quite different indeed. Even so, I would not find myself equipped to know whether talks of suicide were looking for attention or a serious cry for help on my own. So I would advise it were taken seriously and reported on. Especially as the families involved, no matter how strained the relationship, would need to know they did the right thing.

Luminance you know more because it's your career and can speak from your experience. As you deal with people with mental health problems everyday .
I am talking from my view and experience.

In your career you are equipped to see sights of of how bad a person's mental health is . And may be able to pin point those who will commit suicide or self harm and no doubt you help people daily .

But you must also know people who use the threat of suicide just to hurt their loved . And also know of cases where you never thought that person would take their own life and not leave a letter explaining why.

Yours is not an easy career and it must be heart breaking at times. But you must also have times where you get joy from helping people live a full life with mental health problems and how to manage them .

Whiff yes I do of course know that but I also know that people will go a long way in manipulation as well and make an attempt they seek help for that causes serious long term damage. It's a threat that must be taken rather seriously. Were someone to call and say they made an attempt then an ambulance would need to be sent were it for attention or not. People will go too far just for attention. Aside from that, there is a marked difference between people who have suffered long term metal health issues and feel the world would be better without them and people who have hit rock bottom in life and cannot see a way out. The second type are more likely to disclose.

Whiff I very much appreciate you saying that too. Thank you, so kind to say. I know you have been through much yourself and you should be proud.

Hope you are enjoying your holiday Whiff in such beautiful weather.
In every case of suicide I know of, not one had mentioned suicidal thoughts, no letter, nothing. They were all young. Seemingly happy and popular. The repercussions on family and close friends devastating. That is not to say that is always the case and of course if mentioned should be taken seriously.
However, if it is used to manipulate how would we know.

Morning everyone.

Hope you're enjoying your holiday Whiff and spending time with your aunt and uncle.

I can't remember if it was last year or the year before Allsorts but BBC breakfast covered this. In London I think, there was a large outside area with walkways through photographs of people smiling and laughing but everyone had taken their own lives and family who were interviewed, had no idea how desperately unhappy they were.

Difficult to know in any circumstances and even more problematic if there's a history of manipulation and control.

I remember that Smileless, it is hard to look at those young faces and know that there was that moment when they felt they had no choice but take their own life. I don't know how people cope, losing a loved one to suicide, When it's a young life just starting how does a parent cope? I have felt so desperate that I wished I were not here, one of them was when my d estranged me, I felt as if I had no one, no one cared, the moment passed, rational thought kicked in. I have family that love me and friends that do but at that moment you are not thinking straight, you feel there is no answer, it is when that moment doesn't pass they take their own life. . We don't know what goes on in someone's head. Women tend to talk more freely, men not so, my two grandsons although grown men and I don't get to see them as much as I want as they are living theirs, have in the past come to me about a problem, , we talked it out, my love won't waver, there's not a lot I haven't heard or gone through. Things are changing, I never thought I would see the day that young men would hug each other openly, relish in their friendships as girls do. They now talk to each other.
I am so pleased now I have accepted things, that my d is happy, she is alive and well and that is enough for me. My problem was I couldn't accept it as it was so so alien to me. What I wanted wasn't right for her.

It was a shock to know they'd all taken their own lives because every photograph was of someone who appeared to be happy Allsorts .

You never cope Allsorts, it takes one minute at a time until you find yourself able day to day moving forward.
The torment is akin to estrangement...no answers, the not knowing why.

💐 Bridie, I know how hard you find it, as did I. Do you know if your child is well at least? If so, you must put yourself first, it is their decision to estrange and they might hopefully one day come to you. If not there is nothing to be done and no amount of crying or reflection will help, it’s out of your hands. You owe it to yourself to move on. You have to accept the things we can’t change.

I'm sure our DS would tell us if his brother wasn't OK.

I still cry occasionally but we exhausted self reflection years ago, going around in ever decreasing circles did more harm than good.

It does get easier Bridie but it will never be easy, if you see what I mean .

You have to accept the things we can't change yes we do Allsorts, it's the only thing we can do.

It's a very difficult thing. I have had people disclose to me that they do not want to be here any longer and I have also supported family members who have had that disclosed to them. The reasons are varied. Undoubtedly those who show sudden signs of peace and happiness may not have recovered and have simply formulated their plans. This is something to watch for. However those who disclose may do the same thing. It cannot be used as a manipulation tactic should it be passed on to relevant authorities to handle. Rather a better approach than hearing it and doing nothing in any case.

My post was alluding to coping with suicide, many years on , still not knowing why, as with my estrangement by AC, not knowing why, I feel I'm always looking for whys?
I know I have to cope and I do, as we all do here, best way we can.

Why can't it be used as a manipulation tactic if passed on to relevant authorities? Who are the relevant authorities and what power do they have to stop someone manipulating others with talk of suicide?

I'm sorry Bridie, I didn't realise.

No need for apologies Smileless, we all here are coping with our demons in the best way we can, whilst embracing the good we still have in life x

You're a sweetie Bridie x

Bridie, if you have experienced someone very close taking their own life it does haunt you. No one who hasn't experienced it can comprehend. That on top of estrangement is incomprehensible. Just know we are always here for you.