I am just gonna get real about this whole estrangement thing...

Our experience doesn't chime with that either Babs and as you say the OP isn't estranged.

MaggsMcG

I don't have an estrangement but I nearly did and that person blamed me. Not my husband, at least not as much. She didn't acknowledge the accusations snd horrid things she said on the phone about me and to me and about two other members of the family. This,was 85% due to alcohol. Now sober, it's still mostly my fault, but the nasty comments are less and a bit snide now. So she must just have that type of character. No idea,where it comes from, jealousy I think. So I also think it's a bit unfair that all the sympathy goes to the ACs and no one wants to believe the parents side.

THIS!

If you think we are Commonground contact GNHQ and tell them about your concerns.

'Far from uncommon' isn't a sweeping generalisation Luminance. Now if I'd posted 'EAC always criticise their EP's to family and friends' that would be a sweeping generalisation.

You didn't refer to ir Luminance I put your name instead of Lathryus' in my response which I acknowledged as soon as I noticed my error in my subsequent post.

We've just finished our dinner Lathyrus,; spaghetti bolognese and it was rather delicious even if I do say so myself. Hope you've enjoyed yours .

I'm afraid I can't shake the feeling we're being trolled.

I don't think I referred to that part.

Smileless2012

Of course it's wrong if EP's criticising their EAC to family and friends Luminance, for me that goes without saying and as I was responding to Maggs and Babs it wasn't relevant.

As for Eugenia, she's expressing her feelings on an online forum using a pseudonym not to other family members and friends.

Smiles is correct.

On-line talking is perfectly acceptable. Not to other family.

Well yes, but she has told us in some detail (this thread or the other one?) about her many discussions with family and friends and how they all agree with the things she has posted here about her daughter.
I’d be equally shocked if it it was her daughter saying similar things about her mother.

I was just making an observation really about my granny experiences. With a bit of tongue in cheek I suppose. Sorry.

Must be dinner time again😬

"Far from uncommon" I believe was the reference point

There is a belief held by many who are not EPs that EPs don’t ever question their parenting, or reflect upon it, and believe they are always right. My experience doesn’t chime with this. We questioned everything, went through our parenting with a fine tooth comb, blamed each other, blamed ourselves, reflected and tore our lives apart in search for a way to make things right, we apologised for anything and everything, became completely cowed and reduced to the point we couldn’t go out, in my case I could no longer work or function. And even now after 11 years we question ourselves, as do other EPs we know.
And am sick and tired of hearing this old chestnut being levelled against all EPs.
Also the OP is neither estranged nor imho very well right now. So comparing this particular case with other EPs is just weird.

I'm astonished that you're astonished Luminance as I haven't made a sweeping generalisation; I referred as I always do to some EAC not all of them.

Apologies Lathyrus my post is in response to you not Luminance.

Smileless2012

That's not always been my experience of the estrangement forum here on GN Luminance even though Each of us have the power to read and see where the issues reside.

I'm sorry that you're still on the receiving end of nasty comments even if they're fewer Maggs but that is a starting point as is the fact that your D is now sober.

Your experience is far from uncommon Babs and one wonders why there's a need for some EAC to criticise the parents they've estranged to other family members and friends.

I would have to say I am rather astonished that would be raised as an issue in one breath, then followed by a sweeping generation about "EAC". Which we then find on a discussion built on the premise of sweeping generalisations about estranged parents that itself then goes on to make sweeping generalisations about "EAC". My family is touched by estrangement but I am not personally estranged from anyone so I rather feel that the problems arise with those making sweeping generalisations about anyone else at all.

Of course it's wrong if EP's criticising their EAC to family and friends Luminance, for me that goes without saying and as I was responding to Maggs and Babs it wasn't relevant.

As for Eugenia, she's expressing her feelings on an online forum using a pseudonym not to other family members and friends.

I know quite a few people who are estranged parents, sometimes with all their children, sometimes with just one of their children. One thing that is blinding obvious is that they often have either a sense of entitlement by virtue of being the parent or they seem unable to accept that there was anything wrong with their parenting or the way they treat their children as adults. Obviously there are lots of estranged parents who find themselves in a situation where they are totally bewildered. It is often difficult to see on a forum where the problem lies.
One parent I know went on a Conflict Resolution course which cost thousands and when her children heard this, they cautiously tried a reconciliation. When I heard the email she sent when things went wrong I just thought, "Well that was money completely wasted." Some people just don't realise how difficult they are to be in a relationship with.

Or to be fair, Smileless, for parents to badmouth their adult children either, as Eugenia has done of her daughter to an extent that’s shocked many of us.

I’ve sat in social groups and family gatherings and heard loads and loads of criticism from my peers about what their children are doing, especially in regard to grandchildren!

It seems to be an acceptable topic of conversation amongst grannies😱 Some of the comments are really personal and quite nasty.

I don’t think they really mean anything by it actually. But it’s by no means a one way street😬

That's not always been my experience of the estrangement forum here on GN Luminance even though Each of us have the power to read and see where the issues reside.

I'm sorry that you're still on the receiving end of nasty comments even if they're fewer Maggs but that is a starting point as is the fact that your D is now sober.

Your experience is far from uncommon Babs and one wonders why there's a need for some EAC to criticise the parents they've estranged to other family members and friends.

Correction…their taking sides.

MaggsMcG

I don't have an estrangement but I nearly did and that person blamed me. Not my husband, at least not as much. She didn't acknowledge the accusations snd horrid things she said on the phone about me and to me and about two other members of the family. This,was 85% due to alcohol. Now sober, it's still mostly my fault, but the nasty comments are less and a bit snide now. So she must just have that type of character. No idea,where it comes from, jealousy I think. So I also think it's a bit unfair that all the sympathy goes to the ACs and no one wants to believe the parents side.

I hear what you are saying.
My eldest daughter estranged us and badmouthed us on social media and to many on my side of the family who then also became estranged from us. 11 years later and many who estranged from us on my side of the family have now also cut off from my eldest daughter. Seems the scales have fallen from their eyes but for us is too late, cannot forget what they said or how they behaved, nor the damage that they’re taking sides caused.
We have the love of three other daughters who estranged from their eldest sister before we did. That is enough.

I think the sympathy would usually go where it is deserved? Each of us have the power to read and see where the issues reside.

I don't have an estrangement but I nearly did and that person blamed me. Not my husband, at least not as much. She didn't acknowledge the accusations snd horrid things she said on the phone about me and to me and about two other members of the family. This,was 85% due to alcohol. Now sober, it's still mostly my fault, but the nasty comments are less and a bit snide now. So she must just have that type of character. No idea,where it comes from, jealousy I think. So I also think it's a bit unfair that all the sympathy goes to the ACs and no one wants to believe the parents side.

Smileless2012

Yes Luminance when I read the link I could see the study was from the perspective of EAC. Nothing wrong with that of course, but in your post you said it was the the largest research done into estrangement so I was expecting it to be from both perspectives.

Those of us who say they don't know why they've been estranged have never been told why, so whether or not the reasons given in the article would be pertinent to them is questionable.

Those reasons that are so very unknown? I don't understand what it is meant by this; are you implying that those of us who say we don't know are lying?

Rather simply, you asked for a statement another person made to be backed up statistically so I let my curiosity get the better of me and looked. The statistical information we do have access too shows that they were right in their comment that you questioned, that mismatched expectations of family roles do come in to play in the majority of cases. I believe I would be rather right in saying that that was a much larger instance of study than we could achieve amongst the few here so it would be a fair argument to put forth in discussion.

Smileless2012

Good post Seajaye

Ditto 👍

Good post Seajaye

It was Freud who first linked childhood upbringing to psychological issues in adulthood but estrangement is not a modern concept. Many young women who became single mothers in the 1950 or 1960 were estranged By the families due to perceived shame.

.I think the reason we have more incidents of alleged toxic family relationships and estrangements is down to increasing issues with adult mental health and the widening of the gap between those whose opportunities in adult have been enhanced by parental help and those that have received no adult help at all and the use of social media to portray lifestyles. Life's not fair, never has been, but the idea that blame can be placed on parental upbringing is a sweeping generalisation and not fair on those the majority of people who did there very best for their children in their circumstances even if it wasn't perfect. However there are also incidents of abuse and coercion, or even enabling over entitlement and selfishness within families..
It's possible that family counselling might help some families who recognise developing issues early enough.