Vile abuse from adult daughter

Hello, that is just an awful situation for you. I agree that for your own health you need to just "stop". I totally know that it will be horrible for you to have to do this, because you obviously love your daughter and grandkids very much, but to continue on the way you are will do no one any good if you collapse. Just tell your daughter firmly that you are not going to be able to help out in the future. Let her know you will give her some time (and make it a definite deadline) to pick up the slack your not being able to do anymore will cause but you are done. You do not owe her any more than what you have done. I know you will feel guilty, so you will probably need a good therapist to help you realize that you deserve better than this. In addition, it may force your daughter to get help and better professional care for her children than you are able to offer. Everyone will be better off if you put a stop to this now.

What M0nica said

jenpax if your daughter says she cannot cope with out all your help (is that really true or just a ploy?) then you have her over a barrel just tell her your help is dependent on her good behaviour, and that the moment she starts bad mouthing you, you will be out of the door for the rest of the day.

Personally, I think she is trying to manipulate you entirely to her advantage. She knows exactly what knobs to turn to keep you in subjection and has fine tuned her performance.

Quite frankly you might just as well still be living with her. I don't see that there's much difference, except you now have the added exhaustion and hassle of travelling early in the morning and late at night.to receive your daily quota of abuse. You're going to have to stop being a martyr before you drive yourself into the grave or have a nervous breakdown. Your daughter won't care one bit and your grandchildren will soon forget all the help you gave them. Trust me, they'll soon find another way to survive if you disappeared. Your daughter will have to find a part time job to fit around her children and claim universal credit or whatever to top up. She'd hardly be the only single parent to adjust her life accordingly. You are enabling her not helping her and you are damaging yourself in the process. It's ridiculous!

M0nica

jenpax if your daughter says she cannot cope with out all your help (is that really true or just a ploy?) then you have her over a barrel just tell her your help is dependent on her good behaviour, and that the moment she starts bad mouthing you, you will be out of the door for the rest of the day.

Personally, I think she is trying to manipulate you entirely to her advantage. She knows exactly what knobs to turn to keep you in subjection and has fine tuned her performance.

I agree with this.

Babs is correct, ' listen ' to her - she has experience. Take her up on the suggestion you pm her - you need support. Your GC have issues and it seems so does your DD. Remember if the powers that be see you ' manage' you will be left to manage! SS will step in when there is a crisis so pull back , minimize the help you give your DD , walk out of her house immediately the abuse starts. I recognize how hard it will be to do that but if you don't the consequences for you do not bear thinking about! When you withdraw help the situation will collapse because she knows she can not cope without you. When the collapse happens - and it will , that is not such a bad thing because SS will step in , don't hesitate to call them or confide in your GCs teachers in school and they will do what is necessary.
Things are coming to a head whether you withdraw help or not because if you continue as you are it is you that will collapse ( in every sense of the word) so take action now before that happens - in the long run you will be doing the family a massive favour.
It is very clear you are well and truly at the end of your tether and you do not deserve this! Please do what's is necessary to protect yourself and preserve your sanity - you count and you matter so hard as it is you must put yourself first. Be strong and keep posting. 💐💐💐

I think you are enabling her . She is an adult and needs to take more responsibility for her actions. Back off and leave her to it I know it sounds harsh but you have your own life to lead and what good will it be if you end up chronically ill or worse ?

Remember …..if you always do what you ve always done you ll always get what you always got
Take that little saying onboard only you can change this your daughter doesn’t have the need or want to change it, this way she is always the winner and if she has a personality disorder she must keep it well in check to be working and keeping a job so she can obviously keep things stable and polite when she wants to

Very wise words from BlueBelle
I would have nipped in the bud the verbal abuse at the very start. No way would I let my daughter speak to me like that.
Stop going round to your daughters house and when she gets on the phone to you wondering where you are, tell her that when she can talk to you civilly you'll go back round under your terms and no evenings.
Whenever she gets nasty just walk away. Abuse on the phone, end the call. She will get the message eventually. You've got to get the upper hand.
You're too easy. Get strong and get control.
People will treat you how you allow them to treat you. You've allowed it for far too long.

Musicgirl

I don’t have any words of advice, but remember that it is your daughter who is the problem, not you. However, it’s something that feels hollow when it is your daughter, isn’t it? You have done nothing to be ashamed of and are going above and beyond to help her with her challenging children. You mention that she was always difficult, even as a child. Could it be that she has PDA herself? She obviously has big issues, but she should not be taking them out on you. Is the children’s father in the picture, or her own father? If so, what is their take on the situation? You are anonymous here and among friends. You will find many listening ears here. 💐

Musicgirl I totally agree with you.

Thank you for all your support and wise words. I am thinking hard about this. I have spoken to the little children's school and the head teacher is lovely and checked in with me this morning. My other two daughters both express very similar views about holding back help. One of my daughters is a social work manager and she has been very clear that I need to step back. I have tried to start changes by moving back into my own house but its been hard. I am aware that my DD probably has mental health issues (we all agree) but she will not acknowledge them other than attending standard counselling which seems not to have helped her in any way. My concern is that the children's father is quite adversarial and there have already been two court battles over child arrangements so I am concerned if I withdraw that the children will end up with him and would be even worse off. There was emotional and psychological DV in their relationship and although he treats the children ok when they are with him he will not make any accommodations for ND behaviours and stresses the middle child out as not feeling heard or understood.

I think the children would be better off with their father.

If you do what you've always done
You get what you've always got

eazybee

I think the children would be better off with their father.

You speak without knowing him

As I recall the daughter was struggling with a nursing degree and there were serious money problems, which is why the grandmother moved out of the shared house. But she is doing as much childcare as she did previously, snd receiving the same abuse, which is not going to stop until the connection is broken.
I assume the daughter is leaving early for work so JP gives the children breakfast (the packed lunches should be made the previous night by mother and children), takes the children to school and collects them and returns them home. That should be the end of her involvement, She doesn't eat with the children, and as for settling them to sleep, until 11 0'clock: ridiculous. There is a lot of play on Special Needs, more likely behaviour problems from poor parenting.
The situation has to change, and the OP seems unable to detach herself, which is why I think the father, who appears to want contact should be allowed more access.
The present situation is not doing anyone any good.

eazybee

As I recall the daughter was struggling with a nursing degree and there were serious money problems, which is why the grandmother moved out of the shared house. But she is doing as much childcare as she did previously, snd receiving the same abuse, which is not going to stop until the connection is broken.
I assume the daughter is leaving early for work so JP gives the children breakfast (the packed lunches should be made the previous night by mother and children), takes the children to school and collects them and returns them home. That should be the end of her involvement, She doesn't eat with the children, and as for settling them to sleep, until 11 0'clock: ridiculous. There is a lot of play on Special Needs, more likely behaviour problems from poor parenting.
The situation has to change, and the OP seems unable to detach herself, which is why I think the father, who appears to want contact should be allowed more access.
The present situation is not doing anyone any good.

Poor parenting is not at play here. Father has as much contact as he wants the row was over travel as he lives in another county. The middle ASD child struggles with getting to sleep hence trouble getting away in time. I resent the “play” on SEN comment it is very disparaging!!

You have posted on this subject before and although you don’t live with her things really don’t seem to be much different , high time for tough love I would have done it and very very long time ago, while you are helping her she’s not helping herself, she’s a adult, I couldn’t even imagine any of my adult children speaking to me this way, she’s going to continue to do this as she is already doing until you say enough is enough for your own sanity, you are worth more

jenpax

eazybee

As I recall the daughter was struggling with a nursing degree and there were serious money problems, which is why the grandmother moved out of the shared house. But she is doing as much childcare as she did previously, snd receiving the same abuse, which is not going to stop until the connection is broken.
I assume the daughter is leaving early for work so JP gives the children breakfast (the packed lunches should be made the previous night by mother and children), takes the children to school and collects them and returns them home. That should be the end of her involvement, She doesn't eat with the children, and as for settling them to sleep, until 11 0'clock: ridiculous. There is a lot of play on Special Needs, more likely behaviour problems from poor parenting.
The situation has to change, and the OP seems unable to detach herself, which is why I think the father, who appears to want contact should be allowed more access.
The present situation is not doing anyone any good.

Poor parenting is not at play here. Father has as much contact as he wants the row was over travel as he lives in another county. The middle ASD child struggles with getting to sleep hence trouble getting away in time. I resent the “play” on SEN comment it is very disparaging!!

But if the children witness any of the abusive behaviour from your daughter towards you that is actually poor parenting

crazyH

Glad you are no longer living with this vile daughter.
I am also glad that you are still involved with the children.
Others may feel different.
So I shall just wish you good luck and see what the other GNetters have to say

The DD seems to have ND problems as well as her kids.What a situation for you jenpax.
I don’t think you should stay at the house for so long in the evening as it sounds exhausting in every way.
When the kids aren’t around sit your DD down and tell her that tho you love both her and family you won’t be doing much in future if she doesn’t stop with all the bad mouthing.
I think in this case you have to be very direct, black/ white so she really gets the message.Wishing you luck.

Jenpax, I read your reply about the social services being unable to help out.

Do the children get on okay with their mother? If so is there still a good enough reason for someone such as yourself to do the evening duties?

The younger children need to be in bed by 8PM, and the oldest child in bed by 9 at the latest. Does their mother understand parenting or not?

If you were to speak briefly and sternly to your daughter when she abuses you would she listen? Are you afraid of her?

I thinķ you need to see your GP. Tell them the whole situation.
Exactly how you feel at your worst and how long it's been going on.
All the best.

Whatever you decide to do you cannot allow your daughter to continue to abuse you or you are simply enabling her behaviour, I totally understand that you want to help and fear for the GCs and think your daughter has mental health issues, but you cannot cope with all of this, it is too much for just one person. And the abuse has to stop. The simple fact of the matter is that pretty soon you will be in no fit condition to help anyone, least of all yourself.
Tell your daughter you cannot carry on helping her and the GCs whilst she continues to abuse you so you are taking a break and giving her space to consider her attitude towards you. Don't let her berate you for this just walk away after saying it and don't look back. Toughest thing you will do but the way I see it you have no choice. If you really want to help your GCs you need to be strong mentally to do so.
I know that you already know this and others have told you to do this too.
All the best xxxx

It cannot be repeated too often, your daaughter behves as she does because you permit her to. You must assert yourself and make it clear to her that any help from you is dependent on her acting with courtesy towards you.

You are doing positive harm to yourself, your daughter or your grandchildren by permitting her to behave as she does towards you in front of children who have problems enough already.

Shelflife

Babs is correct, ' listen ' to her - she has experience. Take her up on the suggestion you pm her - you need support. Your GC have issues and it seems so does your DD. Remember if the powers that be see you ' manage' you will be left to manage! SS will step in when there is a crisis so pull back , minimize the help you give your DD , walk out of her house immediately the abuse starts. I recognize how hard it will be to do that but if you don't the consequences for you do not bear thinking about! When you withdraw help the situation will collapse because she knows she can not cope without you. When the collapse happens - and it will , that is not such a bad thing because SS will step in , don't hesitate to call them or confide in your GCs teachers in school and they will do what is necessary.
Things are coming to a head whether you withdraw help or not because if you continue as you are it is you that will collapse ( in every sense of the word) so take action now before that happens - in the long run you will be doing the family a massive favour.
It is very clear you are well and truly at the end of your tether and you do not deserve this! Please do what's is necessary to protect yourself and preserve your sanity - you count and you matter so hard as it is you must put yourself first. Be strong and keep posting. 💐💐💐

I agree with this. Social Services or other services will not intervene as long as you are there propping it all up.

By all means compromise and say do mornings only if you cant bear to withdraw completely ie as you say

" I am over at 7 am to dress them, get their pack lunches and breakfast and do the school run."

Please get some help, a supportive counsellor x

Caleo

Jenpax, I read your reply about the social services being unable to help out.

Do the children get on okay with their mother? If so is there still a good enough reason for someone such as yourself to do the evening duties?

The younger children need to be in bed by 8PM, and the oldest child in bed by 9 at the latest. Does their mother understand parenting or not?

If you were to speak briefly and sternly to your daughter when she abuses you would she listen? Are you afraid of her?

Yes I am sorry to say I am afraid of her! I have tried being firm about the abusive comments (which are usually said via whatsapp or when the children are at school!) and am aware that the children (if not actually witnessing) are most probably getting the idea that it is OK to treat others with contempt. I try as best I can to foster empathy and kindness in them as I worry that with both their parents being selfish and or narcissistic they will only have poor role modelling and I worry for them with only this to look to as they grow up. The oldest (15 yr old) is already challenging their mother in the way she speaks to both her father and myself and I know she is going to find tricky times ahead with their relationship going forward. It all feels so over whelming and I struggle to make the right choices. I clearly didnt get my parenting of her right and I am terrified that I will make similar mistakes as a grandparent. I know that the children are not my responsibility but it is difficult to step away when I can see problems developing.