Estrangement

No, it's actually rather fair for everyone.

I did BlessedArt, thank you

It is not for you to decide what can and cannot be shared with any credibility Luminance.

You are telling someone you don't know that they can't possibly know the reason for the estrangements of people you don't know either; it's ridiculous.

BlessedArt as did I but perhaps I gave more credit than was due.

Luminance

What I can say is that, my sister and her daughter are estranged. I know the best of them and the worst of them but could I safely assign a line of fault? No I could not. Both have their own ideas of what has caused this and those ideas are completely opposed. So no, no one can share such anecdotal thoughts about the relationships of friends and acquaintances with any credibility. And trying to do so as an argument in a discussion is at best, rather short sighted and not worthy of a place here.

You had the energy I lacked. Though, this should be common sense.

You enjoy your night, Smileless! I mean that

What I can say is that, my sister and her daughter are estranged. I know the best of them and the worst of them but could I safely assign a line of fault? No I could not. Both have their own ideas of what has caused this and those ideas are completely opposed. So no, no one can share such anecdotal thoughts about the relationships of friends and acquaintances with any credibility. And trying to do so as an argument in a discussion is at best, rather short sighted and not worthy of a place here.

You've said she doesn't have intimate knowledge of those involved so I'll ask again, how do you know? It's a simple enough question and has nothing to do with me missing your point.

I'm simply asking you what evidence you have to substantiate your claim.

How do I know? Really? There goes that arguing for the sake of arguing again…

Smileless, it’s not my responsibility to explain things every single time you miss my point. It would be one thing if you asked for clarification but you see the letters DIL and rage-respond, so you can have at it. This conversation between us is going nowhere lol

She doesn't have intimate knowledge of those involved doesn't she BlessedArt? How do you know how well she knows them, have you asked her?

Well at least you're now acknowledging that the poster was only referring to her estranged friends d's.i.l. and not all d's.i.l. which is a start.

Nor bring peace of mind.

Marg75

Interestingly I had a very controlling m.i.l., my DH being an only child. She said on our engagement that 'it won't last', we've been married for 57 years. Because of this I was very careful not to be. Our problems were down to my d.i.l.s childhood and our relationship was doomed from the start. She went out of her way, and was very successful, in convincing our ES that he was the same as her, two very badly treated people. In the case of our ES, nothing if further from the truth.

All I can say is that blaming one’s family issues on another family’s issues are not likely to yield a positive outcome.

Smileless2012

No one knows both sides of the story BlessedArt unless they have an intimate knowledge of all those involved.

The friends of an EAC only have their side, as do the friends of the EP.

We don't know how well pascal knows the friends she referred too but because a d.i.l. being a major player when a son estranges his parents doesn't suit your narrative, whenever it's mentioned you always argue against it, and you accuse me of being selective!!!

Maybe you should self-reflect a bit on some of the posts you make.

What’s your point?

That she is correct in her assertion that all the DILs are to blame?

She doesn’t have intimate knowledge of all those involved, ergo she doesn’t know who is to blame. That’s my point. You paraphrased it and still are finding a reason to rebut. Maybe ask yourself why this particular hill is something you’re planting your flag on because that is a ‘you’ problem, not a ‘me’ problem.

You’re arguing for the sake of arguing now.

It's not my intention either Madgran. I just don't think that what has actually been written by a poster should be twisted to the extent that they are accused of saying something they haven't said.

Allsorts

All this back and forth nit picking is not helping anyone.

I'm not sure it is nit picking Allsorts. That is certainly not my intention anyway; I can't speak for others

All this back and forth nit picking is not helping anyone.

Madgran77

*Perhaps maing no more comments for reaction, rather self reflecting may be nice? I always advocate for a bit of decent self reflection*

I'm not sure why you have quoted myself question to Luminance here Norah to be honest. Both my queries to Luminance have been related to trying to understand her points and certainly not "for reaction" She has explained her perspective to me in both cases which I appreciate.

Apologies. Misquote.

I do believe estrangement may be emotive, though I know not why. And I do think people would be well served self reflecting.

Luminance

Good point. I am wondering myself how I got so drawn in. Very distasteful.

Thankyou.

It's interesting to hear different perspectives and discuss them.

Perhaps maing no more comments for reaction, rather self reflecting may be nice? I always advocate for a bit of decent self reflection

I'm not sure why you have quoted myself question to Luminance here Norah to be honest. Both my queries to Luminance have been related to trying to understand her points and certainly not "for reaction" She has explained her perspective to me in both cases which I appreciate.

Good point. I am wondering myself how I got so drawn in. Very distasteful.

Madgran77

Luminance

The comment was made to cause the reaction it did. I deal with facts and not conjecture, especially conjecture designed for offence thank you very much.

Again I dont understand this point Luminance. Surely it is conjecture to say that the comment was made to cause the reaction it got. Only the person who wrote it knows why the comment was made surely.

For whatever reason estrangement is an emotive subject.

Perhaps maing no more comments for reaction, rather self reflecting may be nice? I always advocate for a bit of decent self reflection.

Just an observation, It's all so terribly combative and unnecessary and blaming that on one of the apparent "factions" here is rather short sighted. 6 of one and half a dozen of the other I'd say although I do rather expect better from my generation.

Luminance

The comment was made to cause the reaction it did. I deal with facts and not conjecture, especially conjecture designed for offence thank you very much.

Again I dont understand this point Luminance. Surely it is conjecture to say that the comment was made to cause the reaction it got. Only the person who wrote it knows why the comment was made surely.

I do hope so.

Whose been hurt Luminance? and if anyone has, how could they possibly be hurt by pascal's post unless they happen to be one of her estranged friend's d's.i.l. which is extremely unlikely.

This has become so ridiculous that I wont be commenting on this particular aspect of this discussion again.

For what it may be worth, all I know is that it has never been the prerogative of the person saying 'whatever it was' to decide if another should be hurt by it. That is their responsibility when speaking and they must do with that information as they will.