Not fully estranged but gaining depth into what it is

Thank you Eugenia - I’m so pleased that you still have your grandchildren, they truly are a joy and a privilege to spend time with. I wish you well x

Thank you Eugenia .

YEEEESH

Get help.

Quit relying on your grandkids as emotional crutches.

And quit seeing your abusive daughter. For her sake and yours.

Are you still here? The movies over, go home.

Eugenia

Smileless2012

After more than 12 years, I think we'd both drop down dead of shock if that happened to us Eugenia!!!

It's difficult not to get angry sometimes but if it helps, I try to see the nastiness as a projection of their own pain, an assumption that because they had awful parents and estranged them, all EP's must be awful.

Somehow, circumstances change things yes they do.

Oh my! Well don't do that, dead people can't celebrate now can they? With life, you never know though. I'm worried about the grandkids and I do feel if I got fully estranged someday that luckily I could afford to go to court. I know that is no guarentee, but at least the grandkids would know I cared. I would never just give up. I really feel the law should protect grandparents more, just like the law protects parents rights to shared custody as well.

But how wonderful it would be if my daughter decided she cared about me again like she used to! I would almost drop dead too!!

And I know most likely it is not possible, but if by any chance it is, I pray that someday it will happen for you.....!!! I really do.

Smileless2012

After more than 12 years, I think we'd both drop down dead of shock if that happened to us Eugenia!!!

It's difficult not to get angry sometimes but if it helps, I try to see the nastiness as a projection of their own pain, an assumption that because they had awful parents and estranged them, all EP's must be awful.

Somehow, circumstances change things yes they do.

Oh my! Well don't do that, dead people can't celebrate now can they? With life, you never know though. I'm worried about the grandkids and I do feel if I got fully estranged someday that luckily I could afford to go to court. I know that is no guarentee, but at least the grandkids would know I cared. I would never just give up. I really feel the law should protect grandparents more, just like the law protects parents rights to shared custody as well.

But how wonderful it would be if my daughter decided she cared about me again like she used to! I would almost drop dead too!!

stillawipp

Thank you Smileless2012, any perceived ’virtue signalling’ is, of course, entirely unintentional and merely an attempt to suggest an alternative scenario.
I have every sympathy for EP’s - I was one too, don’t forget!
Just one point though - if I “ appear to not believe anyone who says they don't know why they've been estranged, or did nothing to bring it about.”, I apologise, I obviously haven’t been clear enough on this - I definitely don’t believe it. I once did, when I was in denial about my part of things, but I now don’t. I hope that clears that up.

I think it's just natural. It feels good to not be estranged, and with anything that feels good or feels like an accomplishment sometimes makes us feel a bit like we know better. We just might, then again, could just be circumstances.

I am beginning to see when things fall apart, it tends to be caused by a bad circumstance here and there. Sort of destiny, but not in a good way. More like dropping the ball when you thought you had a grip. Not remembering to count a full three seconds before starting from a stop light to make a right turn and one day a cop is sitting there. Just bad luck. And misunderstanding about intentions, even facts....that's a big one.

I say 90% of any issue I had with my daughter was wrong assumption of either what was said, what was done, etc. Or what any of it was intended to accomplish. Misunderstandings lead to wrong judgements and then it seems, there is no turning back. More mistakes are born from trying to make sure misunderstandings of intent or actions don't happen again, and somehow this just causes more of the same!!

It keeps happening to me and it's like trying to dig out of a hole while someone is pouring dirt back in! Because for some strange and unknown reason, it builds on itself. Do one thing, oops, try not to do again, mb don't do again but then do something else and ah ha well because you did the one thing, you purposely did the other and the whole cycle continues.

I will never do right by her, not for lack of wanting to, but because it is virtually impossible. I could be Mary Poppins in the flesh and I'd still not get most of it right.

This is part of the reason I have just given up on her and focus on the grandkids, the less and less it seems she wants my in their lives, I still at least have some time with them. I will not keep quiet, I will always respectfully ask for whatever I think I can get. I won't let them drift away like the stories I hear about how gradually some estrangements happened.

As long as my grandkids love me, I won't give up.

Thank you for your response stillawipp.

After more than 12 years, I think we'd both drop down dead of shock if that happened to us Eugenia!!!

It's difficult not to get angry sometimes but if it helps, I try to see the nastiness as a projection of their own pain, an assumption that because they had awful parents and estranged them, all EP's must be awful.

Somehow, circumstances change things yes they do.

(Sorry, I meant to add - eg you know why you were estranged, ie the jealousy of your daughter-in-law. )

Thank you Smileless2012, any perceived ’virtue signalling’ is, of course, entirely unintentional and merely an attempt to suggest an alternative scenario.
I have every sympathy for EP’s - I was one too, don’t forget!
Just one point though - if I “ appear to not believe anyone who says they don't know why they've been estranged, or did nothing to bring it about.”, I apologise, I obviously haven’t been clear enough on this - I definitely don’t believe it. I once did, when I was in denial about my part of things, but I now don’t. I hope that clears that up.

Get help.

Quit relying on your grandkids as emotional crutches.

And quit seeing your abusive daughter. For her sake and yours.

Smileless2012

You don't get squashed down stillawipp you are disagreed with at times which is power for the course on open forums.

It might be an idea to read some of your posts from the perspective of an EP. For me, you have a tendency to virtue signal because you have managed to reconcile with your son. Perhaps unintentionally you make EP's feel they are somehow lacking and majorly at fault because they remain estranged.

Because you are aware of your contribution to your estrangement you appear to not believe anyone who says they don't know why they've been estranged, or did nothing to bring it about.

You seem to ignore the fact that one key ingredient is the willingness of both parties to achieve this.

Hearing from those who have reconciled will always give hope to some but not for all because for some of us there is no hope.
Believe me that's a hard enough realisation to live with, without being made to feel you are somehow lacking because you remain estranged.

Again, you have hit on something. And yet you are still being understand of why someone might virtue signal.

Personally, if my daughter came tomorrow and said mom, I've been difficult and may still be at times, but I do love you, I might be tempted to shout out to others see, this is how I did it!

That's why it's good to be reminded, that sort of thing can hurt people who don't deserve it. You and many others here do not deserve it. I know I don't and have been told that by the few people in my life that I have confided in about this.

Somehow, circumstances cause things. I know my daughter did not deserve to be left by her husband......she was a completely different person than she is now, I miss that person so much.

That person was sweet, loving to all and he should not have done what he did to her. But.....men. They do love the young ones. They don't always get the opportunity, but my son in law did, unfortunately.

YEEEESH

I just finished reading your post.

It's an actual travesty that you were allowed to breed. You had no right to create and raise whole new human beings when your emotional maturity is so heavily stunted!

Wish they had a maturity test before they allow you to parent. Would save so much misery in this world.

Would save alot too if there were not people like you troll. Just give up, your ploy to make me feel like a bad mom, or person, it's just not working. I know what I am. I know good people get stepped on and painted all the wrong colors by others who are either jealous, insecure or narcissists. I have narcisssists in my family and was unaware of it until it was pointed out to me. This included my daughter. So I know what to look for now and fight back. Never, ever did when I was younger. Better to learn late than never.

All you are accomplishing is literally nothing. I'm not even that mad, only somewhat. But I'm just laughing at your lame attempt. Did you think you could make me cry by your lousy judgements? Ha ahahah well I feel bad for others you might hurt by your opinions and I hope Gransnet kicks you out before you do hurt someone.

You don't get squashed down stillawipp you are disagreed with at times which is power for the course on open forums.

It might be an idea to read some of your posts from the perspective of an EP. For me, you have a tendency to virtue signal because you have managed to reconcile with your son. Perhaps unintentionally you make EP's feel they are somehow lacking and majorly at fault because they remain estranged.

Because you are aware of your contribution to your estrangement you appear to not believe anyone who says they don't know why they've been estranged, or did nothing to bring it about.

You seem to ignore the fact that one key ingredient is the willingness of both parties to achieve this.

Hearing from those who have reconciled will always give hope to some but not for all because for some of us there is no hope.
Believe me that's a hard enough realisation to live with, without being made to feel you are somehow lacking because you remain estranged.

Smileless2012

Wish there was a maturity test before people are allowed to post on here YEEEESH but hey ho.

Yes, and he or she just caught me on a bad day. But I know this kind of person's intent. Just wish I wouldn't get so angry, doesn't really solve anything.

YEEEESH

No you're right. I don't have a degree, so that makes you a paragon of motherhood. A role model for every mom to aspire to!

Calling their children witches.

Well if you had just half a brain, witches wasn't the word . And the way she is acting, anyone else would say it. If the shoe fits...

Eugenia

YEEEESH

"My grandkids, both of them, show my more love to me then she could even care to, that's why they are more important now"

You....you really just said the quiet part out loud.

I don't know if that makes you a bad mom, but you certainly aren't a good one given that their love is unconditional. Especially not conditional on how much parenting (love) they offer you. Grow up!

Like you know squat. Where did you get your degree Einstein?

I never said I stopped loving her, dip===. In fact , far from the truth, but if you think that means I'm going to praise her as a daughter, not hate her for her treatment of me, understand her sickened mind and put up with her garbage, you got another thing coming. That is masochistic, nobody loves that kind of pain unless you are.

Unconditional love doesn't mean you let people walk all over you. I'll always love the daughter I had. I don't have that one anymore.

But I am not about to give up my loving grandkids too over her. That's why I still am trying. Maybe someday, in my dreams I guess, she'll feel love for me again, perhaps stop taking out her bad experiences on me and if she did, I would be on her side again like nothing happened.....that is called forgiveness and unconditional love buddy!!! Go smoke that in your pipe, might give you a heart or at least some new brain cells. Or keep smoking what you are and be the miserable person you are, trying to make strangers feel bad for kicks. Your'e a sick weirdo.

Wish there was a maturity test before people are allowed to post on here YEEEESH but hey ho.

BlessedArt

@stillawip: My sister is working herself into a true estrangement as we speak because she cannot fathom that her son is actively choosing not to allow her interference in his marriage and child rearing with his wife. One thing she has said nearly verbatim is that their relationship was perfectly fine before the influence of his wife. Maybe in her eyes it was, but objectively speaking her level of involvement in the personal affairs of her adult son was not going to smoothly translate over once he became a married father. She views her unsolicited advice as help, but truly it was quite undermining because she and his wife simply had very different ideas about how to raise babies. Your story resonates with me due to my wanting and hoping for your level of self-reflection for my sister so that my family may begin to heal. I just wanted to say that reading your posts gives me hope for her. She’s not a terrible person. She is stubborn and a little self-centered. I appreciate reading that all is not lost in these situations. Thank you sharing your experience

Thank you so much for this BlessedArt - now that our estrangement is behind us, I have no motivation to post on here every now & then apart from trying to offer some hope to those who may be newly estranged and feeling that everything is hopeless.
To be honest, it can sometimes feel like banging my head against a brick wall as I get squashed down by those who are still estranged or who have never even experienced estrangement themselves, but to know that I may be successful in giving just one person hope is so wonderful to hear & enough for me to keep going! With you as support
I'm sure your sister will get there. Thank you

No you're right. I don't have a degree, so that makes you a paragon of motherhood. A role model for every mom to aspire to!

Calling their children witches.

I just finished reading your post.

It's an actual travesty that you were allowed to breed. You had no right to create and raise whole new human beings when your emotional maturity is so heavily stunted!

Wish they had a maturity test before they allow you to parent. Would save so much misery in this world.

YEEEESH

"My grandkids, both of them, show my more love to me then she could even care to, that's why they are more important now"

You....you really just said the quiet part out loud.

I don't know if that makes you a bad mom, but you certainly aren't a good one given that their love is unconditional. Especially not conditional on how much parenting (love) they offer you. Grow up!

Like you know squat. Where did you get your degree Einstein?

"My grandkids, both of them, show my more love to me then she could even care to, that's why they are more important now"

You....you really just said the quiet part out loud.

I don't know if that makes you a bad mom, but you certainly aren't a good one given that their love is unconditional. Especially not conditional on how much parenting (love) they offer you. Grow up!

Oh my GOSH eugenia! You should no longer see your abusive daughter, grandkids or not! Do it for your own sake, she sounds really dangerous!

anger helps more that resonates with me Eugenia .