Sharing something a friend told me

Smarter I don't understand why you are so very set against boundaries when what you are describing has nothing in common with them? People can seize on any word they like. It doesn't make healthy boundaries in any way wrong or overused. All relationships benefit from healthy boundaries. It is simply the truth that those who cannot respect them naturally, may need to be told what they are by those being negatively impacted by their behaviour.

I ve got a headache ☹️

"I have bigger issues with my daughter. Boundries are the least of it. I mean, just imagine someone always critisizing you, putting down anything you do or say or trying to put distance between grandkids because she doesn't want them to be close to you or think you are a good person."

If the parent(s) don't think you're a good person, than that's that. They are responsible for their children and it's their right to choose who their child has access to.

Constantly being criticized, put down and distanced isn't automatically bad, as long as its valid.

Your daughter knows you better than any of us here, and she has deemed you not a good person. You refuse to go into specifics or details about actual grievances between you and your daughter (and complaining that she complains about you isn't an actual grievance), so I'm going go into my default position and say that the parents, and no-one else, knows what is best for their kid.

If your daughter says you're a bad person, than you're a bad person to her, and she's the one responsible for your grandchildren. So, tough break I guess.

Luminance

Smarter I don't understand why you are so very set against boundaries when what you are describing has nothing in common with them? People can seize on any word they like. It doesn't make healthy boundaries in any way wrong or overused. All relationships benefit from healthy boundaries. It is simply the truth that those who cannot respect them naturally, may need to be told what they are by those being negatively impacted by their behaviour.

I am not set against boundries, I thought I already mentioned that. It's the glorification of them. It's the misuse of them, I've seen it done. And of course they can become very one sided .

Some people take good things and run them into bad. It happens. That's human.

Smarter

BeepBoop

I'm not reading all of that Smarter. The fact you think you're entitled to continue giving unwanted advice speaks volumes about your character. I don't really know how to make any more points to convince you, so I'm going to use a semi-extreme analogy to drive my point home.

Imagine an adult child is gay and has been steadily-married for decades now. Their parent hates same-sex marriage and has been offering "advice" (i.e., "don't be gay") ever since they have met their child's partner.

Do you really think the child is obligated to continue to listen to their parent's nonsensical dribble that at best does nothing, and at worst, erodes at your own sense of self and may fill you with guilt (molding you from an individual into their vision of you, their doll).

I actually can't comprehend how you can contend my point with "the only alternative (to enforcing boundaries) being forced to hear something you don't want to until one of you dies", but as mentioned earlier. It's impossible to discuss this earnestly when emotionally attached to the situation.

I imagine it's difficult to fall out with your own child, but I believe that's all the more reason to work towards maturity and clarity (instead of unreasonable justifications).

Excuse me, you may be confused.

It's been other posters who started using the giving of unsolicited advice as an example of boundries. I never said that was the problem with my situation.

I do not give unsolicited advice to any of my kids. If they mention a problem or quandry, I am usually just listening or sometime will throw out a hey, do you think this would work? Have you tried this?

I am more of a hands on mom, there to possibly give them an idea they might have not thought of. And vise versa, they have given me ideas at times.

Not sure why you decided to judge me based on unsolicited advice when that's not really my thing. My problem lies with a dominiating kid, who think I basically know nothing and have failed at everything, and are to blame for everything that ever happened to her.

I wish the problem with me was with giving unsolicited advice. It would be a much easier problem to solve than I have.

I'm not confused. Your earlier comment:

"I disagree. Keeping someone from speaking is quite controlling and also, quite a mistake. The boundry should be yes, you can give an opinion but I can either take it or leave it.

That's the real boundry we all have; we can listen to others, let them speak but our power lies in our actions, whether or not we do what they say.

To compell others to silence is control.

And in my opinion, someone who tries to control like that is a fool. Because we need input, all of us because we are not perfect and can make mistakes.

It can happen that out of all those misguided advices, one or two might actually help, or even make a big difference in one's life. So many people say "if only I knew", but if they were afraid to tell you, that's on you."

made me write that about unwanted advice.

BeepBoop

"I have bigger issues with my daughter. Boundries are the least of it. I mean, just imagine someone always critisizing you, putting down anything you do or say or trying to put distance between grandkids because she doesn't want them to be close to you or think you are a good person."

If the parent(s) don't think you're a good person, than that's that. They are responsible for their children and it's their right to choose who their child has access to.

Constantly being criticized, put down and distanced isn't automatically bad, as long as its valid.

Your daughter knows you better than any of us here, and she has deemed you not a good person. You refuse to go into specifics or details about actual grievances between you and your daughter (and complaining that she complains about you isn't an actual grievance), so I'm going go into my default position and say that the parents, and no-one else, knows what is best for their kid.

If your daughter says you're a bad person, than you're a bad person to her, and she's the one responsible for your grandchildren. So, tough break I guess.

What on earth makes you think the put downs are valid? Have your intimate knowledge of my relationships btw?

What she has deemed true was not even true to her, only a few years ago. We got along fantastic. Her marriage failed and she has changed, I have not.

I will not sit here and list out all the grievances. But here is one doozy:

Claiming to me that her excessive drinking and subsequent ulcer had more to do with being given desserts after dinner in her childhood than her actual alcohol abuse! So, my fault!

In that case my son should have an ulcer too. He doesn't. Maybe she shouldn't have drank whiskey like she did at 18 and not even hint that she liked alcohol at all. She hid it until the ulcer came out.

She's gone daft. She has had a broken marriage and gone completely daft. We did have a good relationship and I was that mom her friends even liked. They would invite me to all sorts of things. Except one friend, unfortuately her best friend.

Who also has a drinking problem and weighs close to 300 lbs. Yeah, a real winner.

My daughter has had to stop the drinking because of her ulcer. I thank god for that. Her friend contiues to guzzle and while she didn't get an ulcer, she got excessive weight gain instead.

And you judge and then on top of that......tough break? Do you realize you are on a "support board"? Dear, you must be lost. Perhaps a political board where you can judge peoples' political affiliation might be what you were looking for, or some debate board. Your in the wrong forum.

BeepBoop

Smarter

BeepBoop

I'm not reading all of that Smarter. The fact you think you're entitled to continue giving unwanted advice speaks volumes about your character. I don't really know how to make any more points to convince you, so I'm going to use a semi-extreme analogy to drive my point home.

Imagine an adult child is gay and has been steadily-married for decades now. Their parent hates same-sex marriage and has been offering "advice" (i.e., "don't be gay") ever since they have met their child's partner.

Do you really think the child is obligated to continue to listen to their parent's nonsensical dribble that at best does nothing, and at worst, erodes at your own sense of self and may fill you with guilt (molding you from an individual into their vision of you, their doll).

I actually can't comprehend how you can contend my point with "the only alternative (to enforcing boundaries) being forced to hear something you don't want to until one of you dies", but as mentioned earlier. It's impossible to discuss this earnestly when emotionally attached to the situation.

I imagine it's difficult to fall out with your own child, but I believe that's all the more reason to work towards maturity and clarity (instead of unreasonable justifications).

Excuse me, you may be confused.

It's been other posters who started using the giving of unsolicited advice as an example of boundries. I never said that was the problem with my situation.

I do not give unsolicited advice to any of my kids. If they mention a problem or quandry, I am usually just listening or sometime will throw out a hey, do you think this would work? Have you tried this?

I am more of a hands on mom, there to possibly give them an idea they might have not thought of. And vise versa, they have given me ideas at times.

Not sure why you decided to judge me based on unsolicited advice when that's not really my thing. My problem lies with a dominiating kid, who think I basically know nothing and have failed at everything, and are to blame for everything that ever happened to her.

I wish the problem with me was with giving unsolicited advice. It would be a much easier problem to solve than I have.

I'm not confused. Your earlier comment:

"I disagree. Keeping someone from speaking is quite controlling and also, quite a mistake. The boundry should be yes, you can give an opinion but I can either take it or leave it.

That's the real boundry we all have; we can listen to others, let them speak but our power lies in our actions, whether or not we do what they say.

To compell others to silence is control.

And in my opinion, someone who tries to control like that is a fool. Because we need input, all of us because we are not perfect and can make mistakes.

It can happen that out of all those misguided advices, one or two might actually help, or even make a big difference in one's life. So many people say "if only I knew", but if they were afraid to tell you, that's on you."

made me write that about unwanted advice.

Ok, yah, again, you are confused.

You read my "opinon" about being compelled to not speak.......not that I myself actually have constantly given unwanted advice to my kids.

My "opinon" stands. Although I was never one to force any unsolicited advice to my kids, I believe a parent has a right to express how they feel, offer help if it's possible. That is not saying some parents push too hard, but I'm not referring to those cases.

And I do believe any parent who is so stubborn not to seek out alternatives and ideas when there is a problem, not just from parents but anyone, will risk opening themselves up to regret someday.

Ok, so, I think I've explained enough and if you simply can't read what is written correctly, know the difference between what I said as opinion vs. what I actually do with my children, then I guess we are done here.

Lovetopaint037

I ve got a headache ☹️

Me too! It seems an opinion cannot be expressed without it automatically meaning you are guilty of doing whatever is deemed bad in the other's opinions.

My opinions are my thoughts, my actions do not always reflect them. So to be accused of something that I believe is right, but not necessary do because of avoiding conflict, is really kinda weird and pretty dumb too.

Like, what are these support boards supposed to help exactly again? I think like one or two people actually try to help on any thread I actually have read so far.

But I'm not kidding, I actually do have a headache from all this. Not healthy this place....

Ok, so why are you on a crusade against boundaries than?

The dessert-ulcer may have been a reach, but can you give some credence to the notion that you are likely responsible for at least some of the problems your adult daughter now faces, given that you were in charge of raising her.

Have you made any concessions or progress towards understanding her viewpoint, or are you just focusing on the weakest (most easily dismissed) points she has made (or tried to make)?

BeepBoop

Ok, so why are you on a crusade against boundaries than?

The dessert-ulcer may have been a reach, but can you give some credence to the notion that you are likely responsible for at least some of the problems your adult daughter now faces, given that you were in charge of raising her.

Have you made any concessions or progress towards understanding her viewpoint, or are you just focusing on the weakest (most easily dismissed) points she has made (or tried to make)?

"The dessert-ulcer may be a reach"

You think? Well that is the nature of all her grievances. That one is just a sample.

I have tried to treat her with respect despite the clearly outrageous notions she gets to prove I was a crappy mom.

Anyone else who would try that, most likely I would laugh in their face and tell them how ignorant they are for such unfounded and unscientific rubbish.

With her I calmly brought up common knowledge that alcohol causes ulcers.

To this day I feel she still doesn't believe it.

It's hard not to focus on the weak points when the others are pretty much just as weak.

That makes it pretty hard to make progress with so little to go on.

So if you're main grievance is that she blames you for ridiculous things, why are you upset about her boundaries?

To me, boundaries often boil down to, “If you choose to do X, I will do y.”

Example: If you choose to criticize my parenting, I will end the visit.

It’s not controlling to choose not to listen just because someone wants to talk. As much as people are free to give their unsolicited opinions and advice, nobody is obligated to stick around and provide the audience for it.

My confusion was due to the setting, you see, teaching about healthy boundaries, what they look like and when they need to be placed would be very beneficial on an estrangement forum.

I highly advise anyone feeling physically ill from participating in this forum to stop participating. No one is changing minds here. There are endless examples of the same fruitless arguments going back for years and years. Often with the exact same participants making the exact same arguments over and over.

What's the point really? This is exactly why estrangement is necessary. People can't listen and understand each other anymore.

Exactly User

Goodness yes.

User138562

I highly advise anyone feeling physically ill from participating in this forum to stop participating. No one is changing minds here. There are endless examples of the same fruitless arguments going back for years and years. Often with the exact same participants making the exact same arguments over and over.

What's the point really? This is exactly why estrangement is necessary. People can't listen and understand each other anymore.

Lol

Too many people these days throw “therapy speak” or psychobabble around despite no training or education in psychology.
Instead of saying someone is a pain in the bum, , they now say he’s a narcissist.
Instead of saying I’m overthinking, they now say I’m obsessing.
Instead of saying they are sad, they say they’re depressed.
Instead of saying she’s nervous, they say she has anxiety.
Instead of saying I don’t like or agree with you, they say you’re gaslighting me and triggering me.
A difference of opinion is now leveled up so they are impossible to have a conversation with.
Instead of mutual respect they talk about “boundaries”
Labelling everything makes it so that they don’t have to deal with the person.
Ironically it creates more isolation and fragmentation.
I generally try to avoid threads like this - OP asks profound?
I don’t think so.

Back in my day, PTSD was just called Shell Shock. Why the complex psychobabble, the soldiers are just a lil shook from the shells?

Newer generations understand mental health better and have made words to describe the new concepts they have discovered.

You shouldn't disparage progress just because you don't fully understand it.

Oh there are all sorts of new medical terms, not just for mental health but also for diseases and life threatening illness. This is because progress has moved towards treatment for said medical issues. Quite a lot of newer medical terms mean people no longer die from them or have their lives so negatively impacted from them. Rather brilliant I would say.

You shouldn't disparage progress just because you don't fully understand it
My point is that too many people bandy these terms around which they don’t understand.
Please don’t tell me that I don’t, you know nothing of my background, training or experience.

The person who initiates and keeps up estrangement holds the cards. You can only reconnect if there is a mutual desire. If after trying to put things right you might have done, you hold no power and have no option but accept and make a dufferent life. You can say the person estranging has had their feelings hurt to make that final decision. Its complex.

I think those who are impacted by those things tend to understand what the words mean very well. The same is true of boundaries. People tend to know what the word boundaries means because they had issues with people stomping over them.

RosieandherMaw

Too many people these days throw “therapy speak” or psychobabble around despite no training or education in psychology.
Instead of saying someone is a pain in the bum, , they now say he’s a narcissist.
Instead of saying I’m overthinking, they now say I’m obsessing.
Instead of saying they are sad, they say they’re depressed.
Instead of saying she’s nervous, they say she has anxiety.
Instead of saying I don’t like or agree with you, they say you’re gaslighting me and triggering me.
A difference of opinion is now leveled up so they are impossible to have a conversation with.
Instead of mutual respect they talk about “boundaries”
Labelling everything makes it so that they don’t have to deal with the person.
Ironically it creates more isolation and fragmentation.
I generally try to avoid threads like this - OP asks profound?
I don’t think so.

Well ...........everything you just said. Bravo.

RosieandherMaw

^You shouldn't disparage progress just because you don't fully understand it^
My point is that too many people bandy these terms around which they don’t understand.
Please don’t tell me that I don’t, you know nothing of my background, training or experience.

Have you seen people misusing these terms in this thread RosieandherMaw?