They are either unwilling or unable to translate a parent-child relationship into an adult-adult relationship that's a very good point Leo.
"We Donate" are they legitimate?
Gransnet forums
Estrangement
Reconciliation may have brought some answers, but no closure
(126 Posts)I feel like my relationship with my daughter since she reached out is tenous. All trust is gone with me, but she reached out because she personally and professionally burned bridges. We were receptive, she is our daughter. She made some devestatingly bad decisions that had severe consequences. She appeared to have it all and now must start over. She used people, discarded them and repeated the cycle. Then she did it to the wrong people. I think professionally she may not recover at all. She will be able to work and make a living. But she won't be living in a mansion again anytime soon.
So it's like living with a ghost. I am her mother so even though I don't feel she has any love or warmth towards me or any of her former family and friends that she dumped, I know she's at her lowest so I am supportive. Her father and I worry she will commit suicide as she has alluded to. But she is careful to always say she doesn't have a plan and it was yesterday's thoughts so we don't send in the troops. And she has started therapy. But unfortunately with a therapist who tells her that her entitled behavior is not a bad thing. This entitled behavior is what helped get her in this mess to begin with.
Her father and I agonized over what parenting mistakes we made to cause such a drastic personality change in her mid to late 20's. We were a close family. Lots of fun, lots of laughs, we never abused her. We were her biggest supporters in life. But she dumped us, and most of her friends and family who weren't wealthy and ambitious.
I learned that the prescription stimulants use she dabbled in during college was not a fleeting thing. She never stopped taking them. She did confide in me at that time that she was using them to get through finals and how easy it was to find an online doctor to prescribe them. She does not and never had ADHD. So it was and is prescription drug abuse I believe that changed her. I disapproved of course, but gently. She was an adult at that time and she could talk to me about anything. We were close like that so I was blindsided when she dumped us and created a life with corporate sharks and what we believed to be very selfish people.
She acted so much like my mother and sister who many people call narcissists that I believed it was genetics. I still think that has a part, but I think abusing prescription stimulants which can cause impulsivity and lack of empathy was perhaps the main reason for her personality change. And drinking wine at night to come down from it all to sleep. Now she takes prescription sleeping pills to do this. And still drinks wine as well.
My daughter still takes no accountability for her actions and how they hurt other people. I hope in time she views things differently. She doesn't understand why she could not walk back into everyone's lives after years of absence and not be welcomed back with open arms. Everyone is cordial but they don't trust her and have moved on.
She takes shots at me because whe believes I am the barrier that keeps her old friends and family from inviting her over. I've never said a harsh word about her and these people have come to their own decisions about having a relationship with her.
She told me she was cruel to me, and I think that is the best she can do to address the way she demonized and lied about her childhood. She lost a lot of friends when she started that because they knew the truth and thought she had changed. It's not an apology but at least it shows some self reflection.
I really hoped hitting rock bottom would help her change back into being an empathatic and caring person. But as long as she abuses prescription drugs and alcohol I don't think it will. And I don't think her therapist or anyone in the medical community will address this issue because she has a prescription.
Thanks for listening to my story. I live on the edge of being supportive to a daughter who is not the daughter I know, while worrying about her still. Hubby and I talk about it and we agree to accept that she is not fully with us in heart and spirit, and acts like she is only interested in herself that she still needs support.
I miss the daughter I raised and loved for decades. I don't like the person she has become. But if ever a person needed the love of a mother and father she is the one. So it's hard. But we at least know that if and when she creates a new tribe of like minded people she will dump us again and we are okay with that while still sad about it. Just gotta get her through this part of her life.
Whiff
Leo the posters name is I AmAI it's not a real person but a form of trolling ignore them . What they write will be designed to annoy and upset people .
Yes, I understand; thank you. But I have been seeking insight into the thought process of children who estrange their parents. A while back, my son stated “you will always be the parent and I will always be the child.” At the time I thought it was just a very strange comment. This troll has helped me understand that this was right out of the playbook. They are either unwilling or unable to translate a parent-child relationship into an adult-adult relationship.
Allsorts I reported I AmAI glad to see they have been deleted. Lot of new names on this thread so strongly suspect they are trolls as well.
Omg same old.
Leo the posters name is I AmAI it's not a real person but a form of trolling ignore them . What they write will be designed to annoy and upset people .
I AmAI wrote “ You brought them into this world, against their volition, so it's your responsibility, your duty, to be an unwavering source of unconditional love, comfort and support for them until you (or they) die.”
Sorry, I just can’t agree with this. Once they are adults (not just legal age, but like my son, who is 42, surely a fully grown adult), this is no longer a parent-child relationship, but rather now a relationship between two adults. Like any adult relationship, both parties have responsibilities if the relationship is to continue. If you think that you can treat your parents like crap and they are obligated to continue being loving and supportive until death do you part, that belies an unbelievably entitled mentality.
Thanks for the insight: I now see that one reason estrangement is so common these days is that we somehow taught our kids that they are owed everything and they have no responsibility in turn.
Yes, being able to acknowledge and accept responsibility is as you say HUGE Starfire and great news for Portrait and her family 
.
And really, to me, I wouldn't need an apology. Just the idea of accepting the responsibility for her actions and acknowledging them, that's HUGE! How wonderful.
Portrait
Happy Father's Day to all the dad's out there. I know it is hard for many who are estranged and hoping there is some joy to your day.
A brief update. We are still talking and I am trying to be supportive. She has shared with me that she's learned a lot with therapy. She has told me that she knows the things she did to us were wrong. She says she looks back and sees how she was cruel and unwarrented. She has named specific events. She hasn't apologized to any of us but that's okay. I'm just glad she is getting help to learn how to make better decisions on how she treats people and herself.
She told me that she was able to justify her behavior because she had goals, and the people in her life, her family and old friends didn't seem important to her. She said she would turn harmless comments into big deals in her mind so that she could create reasons to let go of people because she preferred the new people in her life. She said she is working on not doing that in the present and the future.
I worry about her and so does her father. There seems to be a big gap between what she knows and what she feels. I think perhaps the prescription drugs may have affected her emotionally. She told me she has stopped drinking and that is good thing.
It's still hard because I hate seeing her suffer from making bad decisions and encourage her to not dwell on this and look towards the future. I remind her we have all made bad decisions, every one of us and every person she knows. To not compare herself to other people. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.
Oh my, this is very uplifting and so happy for you! I think you are in for a happy ending here.
Portrait what a wonderful update, thank you for sharing with us
It's lovely to see your post Portrait and to read that your D's accepting and coming to terms with her past behaviour.
The gap between what she knows and what she feels may take some time for her to close but this is all good news.
Creating reasons to let go of people because she preferred the new people in her life really resonated with me and I'm sure it will resonate with others too. It makes a lot of sense and throws some light onto what many of us experience with our adult children.
I hope that with time apologies will be forthcoming and wish you, your D and your husband well 
.
Happy Father's Day to all the dad's out there. I know it is hard for many who are estranged and hoping there is some joy to your day.
A brief update. We are still talking and I am trying to be supportive. She has shared with me that she's learned a lot with therapy. She has told me that she knows the things she did to us were wrong. She says she looks back and sees how she was cruel and unwarrented. She has named specific events. She hasn't apologized to any of us but that's okay. I'm just glad she is getting help to learn how to make better decisions on how she treats people and herself.
She told me that she was able to justify her behavior because she had goals, and the people in her life, her family and old friends didn't seem important to her. She said she would turn harmless comments into big deals in her mind so that she could create reasons to let go of people because she preferred the new people in her life. She said she is working on not doing that in the present and the future.
I worry about her and so does her father. There seems to be a big gap between what she knows and what she feels. I think perhaps the prescription drugs may have affected her emotionally. She told me she has stopped drinking and that is good thing.
It's still hard because I hate seeing her suffer from making bad decisions and encourage her to not dwell on this and look towards the future. I remind her we have all made bad decisions, every one of us and every person she knows. To not compare herself to other people. Everyone has skeletons in their closet.
Another post taken over. Its relentless.
Maybe those who can't take that responsibility become the next generation of emotionally ignorant parents... Thus the cycle continues
Some people will never take responsibility for themselves. Yes, your parents might have done some things wrong that result in bad patterns, but using them to blame your own toxic traits forever is a cop out. I once told someone (in their 50s) it was time they stopped blaming their parents and took responsibility for their own healing and life.
When their parent died they were very sad. It's very final then, but everyone involved made their choices.
What happens when their parents die perhaps they find someone else to take their place as their whipping boy Starfire.
I think for estranged children like myself, part of healing is taking responsibility. For all my mother has done and all the pain she caused that left me broken, it's up to me to fix myself and be responsible now. I know I wasn't strong enough to do that with her in my life and I'm so proud of who I am now.
Yes, whipping boy is a relevant term indeed. And the things the adult child does, telling the parents they are always doing wrong, wanting attention, wanting the parent to only consider their needs over their own, wanting to change the parent into their way or the highway, withdrawing love or presence when they don't get what they want, etc. are ironically, very controlling, almost narcissistic.
What happens when their parents die, well, I guess they simply don't care, because it's always been about them. They might care about any money left behind, is about all and when a parent who has been whipped enough doesn't reward that behavior with an inheritance, then the parent is considered vindictive.
How perfect is that? Always the parent, not the child.
Well, I guess I would rather be considered vindictive than reward bad behavior like a chump. So one of mine might get a surprise down the road...those are the breaks.
My post was meant for those who come on forums and blame their parents for everything in their life that is not good.
There are no laws to stop any of us working as a Therapist but someone trained they certainly would not approve any entitled ir abusive behaviour.
My sympathies are largely with those whose lives are wrecked, through no fault if their own, with adult children, who do know right from wrong, who disappear for years, wring money out of them, yell and shout and and alienate everyone, these parents are not whipping boys they have to in the end reclaim their lives? What happens when parents die?
chocolatepeanuts
Starfire57
Yes, I think the addiction subject got started because the OP's daughter is addicted to the amphetamines she decided to use for studies and the subsequent alcohol use that usuallly comes with that in order to sleep. On top of the alcohol, the OP said the daughter also now has to take sleeping pills with the alcohol to sleep. Pretty dangerous, actually.
I have a family member on stimulants for ADHD. They are not addictive and they neutralise the effect of alcohol (though you can still get alcohol poisoning if you drink too much). All this as described by their doctor before they started the medication.
There are two types of addiction, psychological and physical.
The physical is mostly referred to as dependancy, and is down played quite a bit. But, it can actually be worse when the brain becomes adapted to the drug to the point where if you stop it, all hell breaks loose.
When people decide to stop the meds, there are withdrawal symptoms that are physical and mental.
Psychological addiction is different, it is pleasure seeking, wanting the highs. The body can do without it, but the person remembers and wants that special feeling.
But it sounds like the OP's daughter is abusing the meds. Stimulants do interfer with sleep, so alcohol is a way to come down for sleep. Uppers and downers, I think thats how Judy Garland died, among many others I assume.
So, my post was accurate. When someone is on controlled dosages, like with a doctor, the chances of addiction are less, but the potential is there.
So are issues with tolerance...when the brain adapts and there are no longer any benefits at the current dose.
My brother in law's son was diagnoised with ADD and was assured a low dose would be all he needed, thus no worry of severe side effects. Well, my nephew did have side effects, of course this varies by the person.
When they got bad, and it seemed the medication good effects were fading, my brother in law went back to the doctor and the doctor's answer was to up the dosage, something my brother in law was leary of because he was told lower dose would be all that was needed, period.
So, he chose to stop giving my nephew the medication. They chose other ways to deal with the ADD, thru special education.
Today my nephew is healthy and working a job in a hospital and also as an EMT. He seemed to do fine in life without the meds. I feel they are really just a bandaid for larger educational and personality problems in society.
I don't think it is unusual to hope that a family member who is making very bad choices has some sort of experience or event that gives them some sort of epiphany towards positive change. Sometimes you can't help someone or they won't let you help them, so they only way you can see for them to change tack is if something external motivates it.
It's not that uncommon for people with undiagnosed neurodiversity to self-medicate in various ways. If someone is neurodiverse, chances are the parents, or certainly one, are as well, so they may not see the traits of their child as outside normal. It's much easier to get ND diagnosed these days (though still harder for females) but we have whole generations, including the current young adults, where it was often missed. This led to distress, depression and anxiety, self-medication. If a ND person finds the social connection that is harder for them in a group of people that use drugs, they are more likely to go that way. Or they might find other groups to serve that purpose.
None of that has anything to do with the parents who didn't know the child had needs around neurodiversity. The child may have been fine while young and mostly in the family home, but eventually they are expected to join the workplace and wider society. That is when the struggle kicks in and it can begin a downward spiral for some.
Starfire57
Yes, I think the addiction subject got started because the OP's daughter is addicted to the amphetamines she decided to use for studies and the subsequent alcohol use that usuallly comes with that in order to sleep. On top of the alcohol, the OP said the daughter also now has to take sleeping pills with the alcohol to sleep. Pretty dangerous, actually.
I have a family member on stimulants for ADHD. They are not addictive and they neutralise the effect of alcohol (though you can still get alcohol poisoning if you drink too much). All this as described by their doctor before they started the medication.
0neLastNote
Portrait
IamAI- your pain is palpable. You've responded nine times to my post and you've never asked a question. It seems like you have put yourself into my story. I'm truly sorry your caregivers wish bad on you. That's horrific.
For what it's worth I never said what you are accusing me of. Please read my post again. I said my daughter hit rock bottom and contacted me. I hope that she learns from this. We all hope that when we suffer from bad decisions we grow from them. That helps us make better decisions as we go forward. And when we hurt people we tend to empathize more with them when we ourselves have experienced that pain. So we can learn from that as well even if it's after the fact and we self reflect. That is what I hope for her.
I was just going to leave this post but your pain is so evident that I decided to respond. There are very good reasons to go no contact with your family. If your family wishes bad on you, wishes you hit rock bottom, has no empathy for your struggles then your family dynamic is one of them. I don't know any of your story, but I truly feel your pain. You deserve better. You deserve parents who care about you, care if you live or die, want you to succeed and want people in your life who truly love you. I'm sorry you are not getting that. You absolutely deserve that. As a person, parent or not I wish better for you.
You may or may not believe me and I am not going to take your statements against me personally. I just wish you peace and a good life.
Take care of yourself.I appreciate your kind words and they do show me that you aren't too similar to my parents (though since that bar is very low, it shouldn't be used as a litmus test for good enough parenting).
I can imagine how painful your situation is and so I understand why you feel the way you do about good things happening to your daughter.
But you should try to imagine how your daughter would feel if she saw your post/realized that you couldn't simply be happy for her without getting upset. Without focusing on the pain it brings you instead of the joy it brings her.
I know it may seem like an unfair ask, but children (adult or not) need selfless parents who relentlessly prioritize their needs over their own.
" I know it may seem like an unfair ask, but children (adult or not) need selfless parents who relentlessly prioritize their needs over their own."
I agree with Allsorts
It's terribly unfair to ask. You want selfless parents yet want to estrange, abandon them. So which is it, you want them or not? Or just have your cake and eat it too, as they say.
Well, life doesn't work like that.
Even a loving parent will finally give up. You cannot hurt, abandon someone for years then expect them to forget all that. Love can still exist but survival instincts may ignore that.
I'm actually surprised the OP is helping the daughter, who clearly is a selfish user. I wouldn't. I am not physically estranged, but I am telling you right now, if ever one of my kids threw me away like that, and came back with no regrets, no love or apology, continuing to blame me, as the OP has mentioned, then they'd have no place to come back to.
To accept such abuse, abandonment, such disregard, such clearly unloving, uncaring behavior from anyone, especially one's own child, would be akin to masochistic behavior.
There is unconditional love in the heart, but not the mind.
There is just so much a person can bear, just so many tears one can shed until they run dry.
There is no cake left to eat.
Portrait's daughter shows how easy it is to inadvertently become addicted and the downward spiral it can result in; very sad 
.
Yes, I think the addiction subject got started because the OP's daughter is addicted to the amphetamines she decided to use for studies and the subsequent alcohol use that usuallly comes with that in order to sleep. On top of the alcohol, the OP said the daughter also now has to take sleeping pills with the alcohol to sleep. Pretty dangerous, actually.
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