Over The Pond

eddiecat78

You know only 2 things about me - I have a daughter and had a father.Your conclusions about me are therefore meaningless.
Keep your derogatory comments for people you actually know

I missed this comment. Atta girl!!

As long as we aren't using it to argue or hurt each other, I think it's ok, we don't have to agree with it but I think it's ok to look for hope or understanding because it makes it easier to live with.

I know from my own therapy that my mother is probably the way she is for a reason. It gives that small hope she could get better and if she doesn't it allows me to have a little understanding for her and not hate her for what she did. It might have taken me a bit longer than those with normal upbringings but I made it in the end

Starfire57 it's difficult because technically a lot of what people say about their family members when discussing the causes of estrangement is armchair psychology. I think I am one of the lucky ones having done therapy.

I think we sort of do need to allow that, we need to allow people to search for and find that understanding of what potentially destroyed the foundations of these important relationships.

Everyone does do it, here at least, it doesn't matter what side of estrangement we are on. If we have read an article and shared it or read a book and shared it or we think our estranged other has mental health issues, false memories, depression or pretty much anything, that's armchair psychology too.

NiceDream

It's honestly the truth.

Psychology pulled me out of despair. That sounds dramatic but I am not a dramatic person, I was just so completely unhappy.

Psychology has a place

It does have a place. If only it would stay there.

People do twist it. Use it against others. As we have seen in many posts from now banned posters. An that's a big part of the problem it is indeed Starfire.

If the articles and things you find online are written by psychologists it is probably quite safe to read if you see your situation in it. I'm not too sure on books and things written by those in the situation.

Smileless2012

I agree Starfire about the problems social media causes and you make a good point about those lists. We end up with 'armchair psychologists' putting labels on everyone with no real understanding of what those labels actually mean, and that most of the time they're simply wrong.

Pyschology has an important role in the hands of those who are trained but in the hands of amateurs can cause a lot of damage.

Agreed. Armchair psychologists are really just an evolution holier than thou gossips and condemnation.

User138562

Well that's not what psychology is at all. That's a self-serving interpretation of psychology. You're welcome to think what you will, but factually speaking you're incorrect. I'm not inclined to convince you but I wanted to point it out for anyone reading this who doesn't know better.

Just like anything else, people twist psychology to fit what they want and need. Popular psychology is problematic, mostly because the average person doesn't know how to interpret research so they draw conclusions that make sense to them but aren't based in reality. That doesn't represent the actual field though.

I'm an expert in the field, so I see this a lot.

People do twist it. Use it against others. As we have seen in many posts from now banned posters. And that's a big part of the problem.

I agree Starfire about the problems social media causes and you make a good point about those lists. We end up with 'armchair psychologists' putting labels on everyone with no real understanding of what those labels actually mean, and that most of the time they're simply wrong.

Pyschology has an important role in the hands of those who are trained but in the hands of amateurs can cause a lot of damage.

It's honestly the truth.

Psychology pulled me out of despair. That sounds dramatic but I am not a dramatic person, I was just so completely unhappy.

Psychology has a place

Well that's not what psychology is at all. That's a self-serving interpretation of psychology. You're welcome to think what you will, but factually speaking you're incorrect. I'm not inclined to convince you but I wanted to point it out for anyone reading this who doesn't know better.

Just like anything else, people twist psychology to fit what they want and need. Popular psychology is problematic, mostly because the average person doesn't know how to interpret research so they draw conclusions that make sense to them but aren't based in reality. That doesn't represent the actual field though.

I'm an expert in the field, so I see this a lot.

mum2three

I think social media has a lot to answer for. Self-pity is encouraged and I think people actually look for reasons to feel sorry for themselves, and blame their parents for anything that has gone wrong in their lives.

YES. Social media.

And modern psychology......if you read enough, you start to realize a lot of disorders, labels of narcissism, toxic behavior, etc. have so called symptoms that not only overlap but it seems almost everyone at one time or another do or act like some of the behaviors on the lists.

I literally saw a few things on lists that I could say my family does, and also me. Not everything on the list, but enough I suppose to be able to point fingers!

Lists are so typical/vague and cover a lot, which makes it hard if you ask me, how anyone would avoid such behaviors now and then. I feel like almost everyone i have ever run across has their moments of these "behaviors".

Which would mean, what?? We are all disordered, I guess.

No wonder people are so self centered.

Modern psychology is about finding flaws in everyone to the point nobody can just relax and be themselves....meanings get twisted into psychology's version, which never takes in account something called INTENT.

Saying somthing can have different meanings and intentions, and interpreting them because you read a psychology blog that attempts to define everything and everyone.

When those definitions really are not correct to the person's real intentions and meaning, this is how misunderstandings and judgments happen. Then everyone is estranged.

Smileless2012

That's the rub isn't it Starfire it's only after the event when we look back, we can see what was happening.

Our ES's wife had a chip on her shoulder but we never thought it would be a problem for us; how wrong we were

I agree that social media has a lot to answer for mum2three. One of the things we teach our children is cause and effect but that seems to be forgotten in some cases when instead of accepting responsibility, it's easier to play the blame game.

If only we knew and could somehow intercept the issue before it was too late. That is, if we had the power to and our efforts would be accepted........

NiceDream

Starfire57 yes, I would

These mother child relationships are so very important and it's so awful when they are not what they should be. I'll always wish I had a loving mother

I thought so.

I wish you did too.

That's the rub isn't it Starfire it's only after the event when we look back, we can see what was happening.

Our ES's wife had a chip on her shoulder but we never thought it would be a problem for us; how wrong we were

I agree that social media has a lot to answer for mum2three. One of the things we teach our children is cause and effect but that seems to be forgotten in some cases when instead of accepting responsibility, it's easier to play the blame game.

Starfire57 yes, I would

These mother child relationships are so very important and it's so awful when they are not what they should be. I'll always wish I had a loving mother

I think social media has a lot to answer for. Self-pity is encouraged and I think people actually look for reasons to feel sorry for themselves, and blame their parents for anything that has gone wrong in their lives.

It seems there is a poster with many names on here, the style and content all the same as is the length, so really this thread is best left to them along with other threads in exactly same vein. They are so long who has the time anyway.

Smileless2012

Just as we must fight against anger controlling us Starfire, we also need to fight against being controlled by our pain and despair as that can be just as damaging to ourselves and our families.

There do appear to be too many coincidences regarding your D's friend and the problem with coercive control is that we're not aware of what's happening in a loved one's life, until it's been going on for sometime.

Talk to us here when if things are getting too much as getting it out of your system with us, will help you keep that cool and calm head .

You know plenty Sparkly which your comprehensive list and the contributions you make to this forum demonstrate . We learn from one another; we see how others have had our experiences and the different experiences of others, so we know that 'one size doesn't fit all' and that sweeping generalisations are pointless.

rewriting the past through the lens of blame a great summary of what can happen Gina.

Yes, I didn't know it was going on for a long time. When I finally realized, I could look back at a few confusing incidents in the past and suddenly see it so clearly!

I should have realized something was off . The friend always acted like she had a chip on her shoulder. Another family member noticed it way before I did, mentioned it to me, but all I did was brush it off....after all, moms' are supposed to be supportive of the friends their kids have, right? Ehhh.....

I give too much benefit of the doubt to people; so I don't always see their flaws. I think I'm going to start listening to the family members I have that do seem to see things before I do!

Of course, I had no idea that chip on her shoulder would be a problem for me. Ugh.

Thank you for the offer of support anytime I need to cool off.

NiceDream

I think I would fall under lack of love from my mother. This showed in lots of ways.

Jealousy
Neglect of basic needs
Speaking badly about me
Eroding my confidence
Deliberate cruelty
Favouritism between grandchildren
Favouritism with siblings

And she never once validated my feelings if I protested about any of those things and would lie to others to cover it up.

It took me so long to find the strength to walk away and of course I took my children with me because I couldn't let them be around an abusive person.

I think she knows full well too what she did but probably doesn't know why. She has built a while house of cards around appearances and looking like a good person with a crazy daughter. If anyone threatens a breeze against them, they become the enemy and she stops talking to them.

UGH, that is a terrible list. Parents should be instilling confidence, so needed to be able to pursue things in life. I tried to do that, and balance it with we all have limitations or are not good at some thing, let's just find out what we are good at and if we like it, go for it!

Both my kids have pursuits that resulted in pure success. I was not the kind of parent who wouldn't, once in awhile, sign them out of school for something important or needed, like my husband didn't approve of.

I wanted them to be productive, but not feel pressured. It seems to have worked out. Of course, people are either cut out for something or not, we can't control it all.

Again, I'm so sorry you didn't have a mom who treated you nice or fairly. It does makes sense you estranged. And I'm betting if she realized, confessed and asked forgiveness, you would be kind enough to consider forgiveness, since you seem very empathetic to others here.

I just don't get how it all happens; the bad parents get good kids and the good parents get bad ones.

Oh sure, it can go the other paths too, Good with good and bad with bad, but at least those make sense!

It took until I became a parent myself to really see the difference between a loving parent and an abusive one. Of course we do get things wrong as parents but some parents get things wrong on purpose and they don't ever take a moment to feel bad about that sadly.

Just as we must fight against anger controlling us Starfire, we also need to fight against being controlled by our pain and despair as that can be just as damaging to ourselves and our families.

There do appear to be too many coincidences regarding your D's friend and the problem with coercive control is that we're not aware of what's happening in a loved one's life, until it's been going on for sometime.

Talk to us here when if things are getting too much as getting it out of your system with us, will help you keep that cool and calm head .

You know plenty Sparkly which your comprehensive list and the contributions you make to this forum demonstrate . We learn from one another; we see how others have had our experiences and the different experiences of others, so we know that 'one size doesn't fit all' and that sweeping generalisations are pointless.

rewriting the past through the lens of blame a great summary of what can happen Gina.

NiceDream

I think I would fall under lack of love from my mother. This showed in lots of ways.

Jealousy
Neglect of basic needs
Speaking badly about me
Eroding my confidence
Deliberate cruelty
Favouritism between grandchildren
Favouritism with siblings

And she never once validated my feelings if I protested about any of those things and would lie to others to cover it up.

It took me so long to find the strength to walk away and of course I took my children with me because I couldn't let them be around an abusive person.

I think she knows full well too what she did but probably doesn't know why. She has built a while house of cards around appearances and looking like a good person with a crazy daughter. If anyone threatens a breeze against them, they become the enemy and she stops talking to them.

Well, I’m sorry it was so rough for you, truly. Everyone’s experiences and perceptions are valid, but sometimes I honestly really do wonder where some children get the audacity to say such harsh, one-sided things. Especially about their own mother.

There is no such thing as a perfect parent. Mistakes will always happen. But painting someone as entirely cruel or abusive, without mentioning their intentions, struggles, or context feels incredibly unfair and narrow-minded.

It’s easy to judge once you're grown and start rewriting the past through the lens of blame. But rarely are the parents struggles considered. No one wants to think that maybe the so-called “abuse” was just discipline, or that “favoritism” is a perception, not fact.

I think I would fall under lack of love from my mother. This showed in lots of ways.

Jealousy
Neglect of basic needs
Speaking badly about me
Eroding my confidence
Deliberate cruelty
Favouritism between grandchildren
Favouritism with siblings

And she never once validated my feelings if I protested about any of those things and would lie to others to cover it up.

It took me so long to find the strength to walk away and of course I took my children with me because I couldn't let them be around an abusive person.

I think she knows full well too what she did but probably doesn't know why. She has built a while house of cards around appearances and looking like a good person with a crazy daughter. If anyone threatens a breeze against them, they become the enemy and she stops talking to them.

Yup. To each his/her own.