Over The Pond

These forums just get people more entrenched in their personal views, no matter the “side”. That’s pretty much true of any two “groups” with opposing views. Most people are seeking the echo chamber, not the opposing perspective. I honestly think long term use of those type of forums is almost a guarantee to remain estranged for that very reason. Every family’s situation is its own. You could believe you have all the parallels in the world to others in the comment section, but no one will ever know the parties involved well enough to provide the validation most people seek. Family conflict is almost never as simple so as to be fixed by a few comments on a thread. People are complicated, relationships are complicated. Therefore, the solutions won’t be as simple as the neat little package of comments these forums deliver.

What I am saying is, reading the other perspectives may provide some insight to anyone actually open to another perspective, but specific answers and solutions to a family’s issues will likely be found offline—if the goal is actually to find solutions and healing.

I'm a member of estranged child forums and typically what is easy to notice is that they will point out unhealthy behaviour to each other. They do not justify each others bad behaviour.

They may have come together under the same set of characteristics displayed by parents who are toxic to their wellbeing but there is very little sugar coating for those who show toxic behaviours themselves. They are told, clearly, that's an emotionally unhealthy response.

As much as people are there seeking validation because they have done a thing that is against a child's instincts to do and distanced or estranged an abusive parent they also want support to do better themselves.

In amongst the threads asking "is this abuse?" There are those asking "How do I respond to this in a healthy way?" Or How do I heal and become a better person in my own relationships with my own children?".

They are places of education and understanding where people come confused and angry and leave with the tools they need to cope. There is almost always growth except those poor people who cannot break the cycle.

This may not be every group for abused children but it is every place I have visited. There is no understanding for those who are entitled or greedy and mistreating a parent unfairly. Just empathy for those who genuinely need it.

Well nothing much is actually solved on any message board, any more than it is by psycho babble pods, sites, links, counselling papers etc.🤷‍♀️

It’s more about support.🤷‍♀️

Really depends on the person and what they are open to, in the same way you can educate yourself about how to look after a plant online, you can educate yourself on how to look after your mind and body. Plenty of worthwhile reading on healthy relationships that doesn't focus on anyone or any situation in particular too.

They usually give outdated, toxic advice that never solve estrangements (if anything, it makes them worse). Then they mistakenly assume no one else can achieve anything meaningful either on forums, thinking it's only good for shallow support.

Having immature parents is a tremendous burden on children, so any resource (even something as simple as an online forum) that can help you handle that reality is incredibly valuable.

I agree DL for many it's the support that's important and knowing that you're not the only one.

Sadly a lot of estrangement is due to a narcissist parent or parents.
No narcissist will accept criticism or responsibility they will always put the blame on the child.
It just goes round in circles.

I think as parents we need to recognise that our children are not born this way.
Clearly something has happened during childhood to develop this.
As parents we owe our children unconditional love and understanding. We chose to have them. They do not owe us that and we need to acknowledge any harm we have caused even if inadvertently

Peace34

I think as parents we need to recognise that our children are not born this way.
Clearly something has happened during childhood to develop this.
As parents we owe our children unconditional love and understanding. We chose to have them. They do not owe us that and we need to acknowledge any harm we have caused even if inadvertently

Yes, key word, inadvertently. So the story is always the parent doesn't acknowledge or apologise. But, there are stories of parents, who meant no harm, still, feeling bad for the adult child, will indeed apologize and acknowledge.

Yet this doesn't always solve the issue, as some adult children feel they must beat the dead horse. Constantly critisizing the parents, alienating them from grandkids, etc.

The parents continue to apologize, out of fear because they have no idea why they are being put under a microscope.

They try to listen and adjust their behaviors, which may help temporarily but in the end, the adult child just wants to get revenge as it seems, or simply finally gets what they wanted from the parent and then dumps them like an old newspaper.

These are many of the stories out there. And yes, parents may not know why, because perhaps there really isn't a reason after all.

I want to add......I notice too, when things go wrong in an adult childs life, if it's tragic or severe enough, they start wondering why they are the way they are, how is it they failed so miserably in life or marriage, why are they like they are? And for some reason, it falls back on the parents, because surely it was them, the way they raised them.

Nobody takes into account the formative years are just that.....formative. Learning right from wrong, going to school. learning rules and being a kid. It's after that, when they get older, where they form ideas of their own, or sometimes those of peers.

This is why, parents are never completely to blame for how their kids lives turn out. Kids become adults, form their own ideas, ideas of others, make their own dumb decisions. But personal responsibility is lacking in some of them and they cannot blame themselves, it has to be their parents to take the hit.

Disclaimer here, this is not cases of actual abuse or neglect to which I am referring to. This is when the adult child estranges no matter how good their parents were.

Because in my opinion, the best way to escape being you is to leave behind your past. Your parents represent that, completely, because, they made you.

However, as we know, the past never really goes away. And running from it never changes what disappointments in life happened to you or who you really are.

It's a facade. And karma tends to catch up, eventually.

Sago

Sadly a lot of estrangement is due to a narcissist parent or parents.
No narcissist will accept criticism or responsibility they will always put the blame on the child.
It just goes round in circles.

While this can be true, it also can be true that the child is to blame.

Both scenarios are equally possible, yet it seems society always points the finger at the parents. I wonder why. You can raise your child one way and sometimes they go the complete opposite. I've known kids from non alcoholic, non drug families become heavy drinkers and drug users....this is one example of how you cannot blame a parent on how a kid turns out.

Sometimes, it's just luck. We do our best, and sometimes it sticks, other times, it does not.

And really, here's another thought.......why do people think it's always the parent who is being unreasonable, uncooperative, unapologetic, etc.? Are adult children saints, and if so, when was that appointment made by the church?

Here is my question, if a parent can be a narcissist, can an adult child be one, or are they somehow exempt from human flaws? You know, gates can open paths in two opposite directions, and we all walk through.

Two excellent posts Starfire .

I think one reason why parents are so often deemed responsible for being estranged is because if it can happen to parents who aren't to blame, it can happen to anyone which of course it can.

It isn't as you say just because of their childhood, there are many influences that are out of parental control; peer pressure and the adult relationships they enter into for example.

My experience of sharing with other EP's Peace is that the overwhelming majority do love their EAC unconditionally. Unconditional love is loving in spite of what the person has said or done.

You can dislike the behaviour of your EAC and dislike the person they've become but your love for them never dies. A poster on this forum recently described the love they have for their EAC as muted which I think is an excellent description.

I hope the estranged parents on here realize one day that actual (true) apologies and love are much more than a string of pretty words. They are actions.

You can apologize till the cows come home, but it won't actually mean anything unless you change your behavior through actions.

Same with love. It's a verb more than a word. It's easy to say you unconditionally love your child, until it comes time to actually unconditionally love them.

What I think is more often the case than not, is that estranged parents love an idea of their child, rather than the actual child itself.

Also, this is where the outdated ideas come in. Parenting has evolved waaaay past: roof over head, food on table, clothes on back. After having done studies and even brain scans, we realized our level of ignorance.

So what you don't consider to be abuse (spanking, yelling, silent treatment, etc.) is now (rightfully) deemed as abuse.

Even so far as missing your child's ADHD, OCD, Depression, etc., is now deemed as neglectful parenting.

Not to mention, the entire notion that the parents aren't by and large, fully responsible for how their child turns out. To think that only drug addicted/alcoholic families can churn out drug addicts and alcoholics shows your true level of ignorance on parenting (sadly, giving birth doesn't automatically qualify you to parent properly).
Straight-edged families can leave an emotional (or even physical) hole in their children that can make drugs and alcohol a very enticing escape from the awful hand the kids were dealt in life.

Every child that isn't stuck living under a rock experiences peer pressure. From my personal experience, only the ones with not good enough families/parents end up abusing drugs in the long term. It's not rocket science.

It would be extremely convenient to blame your (parenting) failures on things outside of your control (peer pressure, adult choices, personal responsibility), as it absolves you of any blame that could be keeping you up at night.

Sadly, that is exactly the kind of immature mindset that should abstain from ever procreating.

I read your username on both posts before realising I didn’t need to read further…nice try!

Same old, same old Pantglas. It would be nice to be able to have sensible and mature discussions on these threads but I'm not holding my breath.

It would be wonderful if everyone who had children was a perfect parent. But that is virtually impossible because they are human beings. Alongside raising a child they will have multiple other things going on which the child is unaware of. They may have health or money problems or their marriage may be in trouble, they may be caring for a elderly relative - all whilst also having a full-time job. For most parents the child will be their number one priority and they really will do their best for the child. But expecting all parents to be perfect is just not humanly possible.
Most children grow up and realise what their parents were up against - and stop blaming them for everything

eddiecat78

It would be wonderful if everyone who had children was a perfect parent. But that is virtually impossible because they are human beings. Alongside raising a child they will have multiple other things going on which the child is unaware of. They may have health or money problems or their marriage may be in trouble, they may be caring for a elderly relative - all whilst also having a full-time job. For most parents the child will be their number one priority and they really will do their best for the child. But expecting all parents to be perfect is just not humanly possible.
Most children grow up and realise what their parents were up against - and stop blaming them for everything

"It would be wonderful if everyone who had children was a perfect parent... But expecting all parents to be perfect is just not humanly possible."

No, no-one is perfect nor does anyone require perfection. Children simply require good enough parenting.

"Alongside raising a child they will have multiple other things going on which the child is unaware of. They may have health or money problems or their marriage may be in trouble, they may be caring for a elderly relative - all whilst also having a full-time job."

This makes it seem like having children is some random, inevitable occurrence in families and not a well-thought out decision (and if it's not well-thought out, what are you doing parenting to begin with?).

"Most children grow up and realise what their parents were up against - and stop blaming them for everything"

As with everything, you are only partially correct.

Most children do (hopefully) grow up and realize what their parents were up against, AND also recognize what their parents put them up against. It's not about blaming, but acknowledging the real damage done (to both your parents and yourself; and even down the line, your own children).

A healthy or emotionally mature parent would want their child to understand their struggles without using that understanding to dismiss or minimize their child’s pain.

Saying “stop blaming me for everything” only shuts down dialogue—*it signals defensiveness, not growth.*

The last thing you would want in a parent.

For most parents having children is a very well thought out decision but real life has a nasty habit of throwing up unexpected things. Eg nobody plans to get ill or be made redundant.You are being very naive if you can't see that

In your example of " caring for a elderly relative" (as in, someone "getting ill"), you shouldn't be sacrificing your children's priorities and needs in favor of your parents, ill or not.

If you know there's no-one else or no resources in the family to take care of them if they got ill, than don't have children if you're going to end up sacrificing their health in order to preserve your parents'.

And if you're just talking about parents themselves becoming ill and unable to take care of children, that is a whole separate tragedy than from being an immature parents. Both are (about) equally unfortunate and have (about) similar consequences for the child, but they aren't the same forms of grief.

One is grief over what was lost, the other is grief over something that never existed.

Although I am no longer estranged from my adult child I do wonder what these adult children will feel when their own child turns round and accuses them of being a terrible parent?

I do think they believe it will never happen to them...but it will, and then they will be wondering what they did wrong.

I think if I were estranged by a child I would be doing more than wondering what I did wrong, I'd want to know what I did wrong. I am not a perfect parent at all, just a normal person with normal struggles.

So when I look at my reasons for estranging and the heartbreak and fallout it caused me, that's the absolute last position I would ever want any of my children to be in.

I have always been able to be accountable and listen to others perspectives so I would like to hope that if problems arise I would be able to navigate them in a healthy way.

I want to be told if I am getting something wrong or if my children have issues in the relationship and I have tried to make sure that they know that this relationship is both of us and a place we both need to feel loved and respected.

That's all I can realistically do isn't it?

keepingquiet

Although I am no longer estranged from my adult child I do wonder what these adult children will feel when their own child turns round and accuses them of being a terrible parent?

I do think they believe it will never happen to them...but it will, and then they will be wondering what they did wrong.

It's really telling that your first thought isn’t hope for healing or growth, but a kind of quiet satisfaction at the idea of your children being hurt the same way. That’s not parental concern — that’s just a selfish wish for your pain to be passed down.

The fundamental difference you’re missing is that healthy parents don’t hope their children suffer to understand them.

They try their hardest to break the cycle and don't act defensive when faced with their child's first-hand experiences.

Some even never have children to begin with, as they realize the generational damage in their bloodline is so great and vast that the only winning move is to not continue it (as in, have any kids).

Please have a good, hard look in the mirror. Your thinking was genuinely disturbing to see.