Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Mr. S. likes his steak medium rare Yogin and that's bad enough.

I don't eat any read meat, so not good for me when buying my son's steaks all bloody, my sister & her H like rare steaks, yuk!
I eat chicken now, since my son moved back and fish.

Sorry to read that Hilltop

Thank you Allsorts easier said than done to move, when I win the lotto I'll be off like a shot. Sad to read about your GD bedroom you made all nice for her, heartbreaking! I dreamt about my estD last night, not a nice dream, she was calling out from below a bridge I was standing on, then her H picked her up and dragged her into the river, she went under but then resurfaced and was ok, woke up then .

Morning all

Said to rain all day, so should have dropped everything and taken Joey walkies, will do soon.

Mr.S steak reminds me of when my H&I were first in Africa, in a really posh restaurant where they cook the food at your table. My H ordered 'steak tartare'; the chef came to our table with all the ingredients, in went an egg, mixed into a patty, then served raw! . We looked at each other, I told my H to ask for it to be cooked, but he wouldn't and ended up eating most of my chicken dinner I'll never forget that, so funny.

Sending that email was cruel and cowardly Hilltop and although we never stop loving them, there does and I think has to come a time to accept that the relationship is over .

I'm the same Allsorts which is why I had to ask the waitress to take it away. It looked revolting.

Hilltop, you do what you think is best. I think the cards will eventually stop in due course. It's a very bitter pill to swallow knowing they just don't care, we don't exist anymore and it's their choice, it took many years for me to realise. Like bereavement you get used to living round the space in our hearts.
I would not want my parents to estrange from their loved grandson because I am, at least I would know they are ok. When you' are kept away from gc for years parents have to justify their actions and we are not going to be shown in a good light.
I am sorry about your neighbours noise Yoga but as the children get older it will lesson and you get on in other ways. My neighbour is a bully, he won't ever change. I want to leave but cannot find anywhere.
Whiff, your little ones will get bigger than you soon, they grow sonfast, I still have books and toys and a new big doll etc although why I do is crazy, The bedroom I did for her, only used once, I leave the same, in fact I repainted it all last year.
Smileless I can't eat any meat with a trace of blood in it and finding myself eating more veggie now. OI hope you get your retail unit rented out soon.

Hi Whiff, thank you, l appreciated your hello. I always thought I would reconcile with my ES as we very very occasionally exchanged fairly reasonable emails, though no way would he communicate any other way. But after the last one l realise it's all over now. It was meant to upset me --and it did. We got on very well until his second marriage. Time to change my Will (again).

Morning everyone.

I'm sorry that you're having neighbour problems Allsorts, hopefully things will improve when they get moved in because as Yogin says, good neighbours are important. Bad ones can really impact on the quality of everyday life.

I have the same issue with my bust, if I lose weight there's little or no reduction but I've yet to topple over .

The start of a new year and weather that keeps us indoors more are good motivations to get sorted Debbie.

It must be awkward for Brooklyn's GP's having contact with him when he's treating his parents so badly. I'm not sure how I would feel about seeing my GS knowing that he refuses any contact with my son or daughter.

It does I suppose give them the opportunity to be 'the voice of reason' and may enable them to see ways of resolving their problems but then again, maybe there's a concern that they'll be estranged if they do say anything so stay silent.

It does sound as if there isn't sufficient noise insulation between you and the flat above Yogin so it's good that your neighbour has made an effort to keep the children's noise down.

Spent a lot of time yesterday with admin., getting rid of paperwork we no longer need and working out a budget for the coming year. Still no luck with our retail unit so as well as not getting any rent, we're now faced with paying rates; fingers crossed that we get a tenant at some point this year.

Went to a new tapas restaurant on Saturday. Great food and cocktails apart from a steak dish we ordered. Mr. S. likes his steak medium rare but this was barely blue . Neither of us could eat it and as there was no clue on the menu that it would be virtually raw, I asked the waitress to take it away said we didn't want to have to pay for it.

She was excellent, explained that that's how it's served but if we want to order it in the future we can specify how well we want it cooked. She came back a few minutes later and said it would be deducted from our bill.

We thanked the manager as we left for the great food and service and have another lovely restaurant to enjoy.

Morning all

I sympathise Allsorts neighbours are so important. Have you tried talking to him and his workers? If not, you need to. As I've already said, the noise upstairs is unbearable, think the Xmas hols made it bad with them and myself at home, normally they are out a great deal of the time, and I am out 3 nights per week and then it's my GC making noise on Fridays when they come for dinner & the evening.

I did complain once about the C jumping game, jumping off the settee over & over, the noise was unbearable, went right through my bones and the room shock, so I had to say something. Now it's like the smaller ones are thumping their feet on the floor, over & over, don't know if it's because I complained, but the mum was very good about it and has stopped their jumping game. They are a nice family, so I don't want to keep complaining and I understand it's not possible to keep little ones quiet. Now we are all back to work/school I hope it will be less.

Sorry to hear about your neighbour. Hopefully when the building works stop it will be easier, and as you say when the weather improves, you should be able to get out and away from it fir a bit.
My Mum had a similar problem, and she decided to move house because of it. But by the time the move came through the neighbour was up for sale too, so she could have stayed put!
Like you, I am finding it a good opportunity to clean and sort out and am also looking to do some alterations to the clothes that don't fit me, so that they do! All to pass the time before we have better weather.
I heard that Brooklyn Beckham is still in touch with his Grandparents. He must be a caring man. Made me wonder if my GD's (from my estD) might think about me if and when they hear this.

Hope everyone is ok in this snow in. I have major problems with new neighbours not yet moved in. He is a bully and giving me enormous problems. Cannot go into details but I cannot live next door to him. Where to go that's the problem.
I am praying the snow goes soon as being trapped in here on my own makes everything worse. His workmen treat my place as if it were his. Sorry for the moan won’t do it again.
One thing with this weather and in 24/7 the place has never been so clean in years, realise lots needs replacing, but what i have I an calking shabby chic as its back in fashion, had a clear out of clothes as well that do not suit me anymore although new or newish. Although I am a bit overweight my shape has changed without me noticing, If i did lose a stone I would be slim again but my bust wouldn't reduce so i might topple over.
Exciting day today I am taking all light fittings down for a clean, it might save on the electric bill.

Another very cold day here. We did brave the elements and went into our local town for a change of scenery and to go to the bank; no banking on line for us.

Had to change our lunch venue as the coffee machine had broken down and I didn't want to risk their instant coffee, and can only drink tea with skimmed milk, so went to a Costa.

Not some where we usually go but we did enjoy it but my cappuccino was so big I could have bathed in it so didn't manage to drink it all.

How frustrating for you Allsorts not being able to make your doctor's appointment; have you been able to reschedule?

The Serenity prayer is my favourite Allsorts; appropriate for so many of the dilemmas life throws at us.

Just waiting for our evening meal to be ready. Cottage pie made from the cold beef left over from Sunday's roast. One of Mr. S.'s favourites .

Forgot to say; met my sister in Bluewater shopping centre last Friday, got there and back without a problem and had a lovely 3course meal, lots to chat about.

Fingers crossed for you Whiff that your club gets the Kings award.

Sooooo cold outside, slowly getting the Xmas deco down, all outside done, aside from the outside lights, which my son will have to do. Had my GDs staying Sun-Mon, so couldn't do anything before today.

Smiles glad you got your Disney decorations. I brought new ones for my tree including 3 gothic ones. My daughter's reaction was you are weird . They have historical figures on their tree made from felt and embroidery. Henry VII and 6 wives , Sherlock Holmes, Shakespeare and other ones. Along with usual things including some I made .

Hilltop sorry this has happened but hopefully now you can have some peace . I decided in 2023 to give up hope and have felt better for it . Past is gone live for the now and future . I can never forgive or forget what my son and daughter in law have said. I still haven't forgiven my brother for something that happened over 30 years ago caused by his second wife lying and I had 3 witnesses to what I said . He didn't speak or see us for 2 years can't remember how it was resolved probably my husband sorted them out. But know I understand how hurt my parents where but didn't at the time.

At cuppa and chat yesterday because I am open about my son the woman seating next to me told me about her sister . Had a vile text from her so she replied asking what she was on about . Had silence back. Her sister has a downs son who her grandchildren love spending time with . So she did ask if she could have him on a date her sister said no as it wasn't convenient. So she sent a list of dates and her sister picked one for this year but can only have him for 2.5 hours. The lady I sat by sees her grandchildren once a month as they live distance away . And they miss him . My youngest uncle had Downs but we saw all the family both sides every Saturday after we moved out of the area where we lived when I was 6. Before I went to school we saw our grandparents most days and mom took us to help our great aunt do the washing from when we where babies. on a Monday our great uncle died at 46 leaving our great aunt with 9 children. Remember they had big drain and we played boats in it .

We'll have to end . Move it or lose it this morning and snow is still frozen so slow walk to get to it .. Taken 2 hours to write this. A member of the slow types club 🤣 One day I will catch up 🤷🤔

Debbie sorry missed the page where you says you had your purse stolen. Hopefully you don't have to pay or get the money back if they have been used from you bank and credit card companies. My mom had her purse stolen years ago . Mind you they would have been disappointed as it only had her house keys in but nothing with her address. As she was with my dad he had the money in his wallet . But dad had the locks changed on the house to be on the safe side.

My nan got tricked by 2 woman saying they where from the council decades ago and while one talked to my nan the other asked to use the loo and stolen nans purse which had her pension money in . Nan was unset about the money but more so as I had saved my pocket money yo buy her the purse. The family replaced the money for nan and my dad reported them to the police and the local post office nan got her pension and they put a notice in the window warning people not to let strangers into their homes.

Allsorts my dad made Christmas puddings and his own mincemeat. Mom made the Christmas cake but dad decorated it . We always had dad's sausage rolls made with rough puff pastry and mince pies for breakfast Christmas morning . No idea why . Once married we always had croissants for breakfast. After he died my son only came for Christmas 2004 after that he can for 3 days over new year . My daughter came on 23rd and home on 27th and we had croissants for breakfast . Only had one Christmas day on my own but I had been prepared for being on my own after my husband died . I didn't expect the children to come . My daughter and son in law had the keys to their first house 6 weeks before Christmas and busy decorating. Had text over the Christmas/ new year to say just painted your room green . So usually my daughter fetched me the 23rd and my son usually brought me home on 27th.

The year I had Christmas on my own my brother invited me to their's but said no . He was with his second wife who I tolerated but I couldn't have stood being with a houseful. So had a lovely time on my own .

Christmas for me is just like another day for me only difference is the presents . But it's not been the same since my husband died. He loved Christmas he was a big kid . Just had a thought probably have already said that in another post . Oh well that's me I repeat myself in real life . 🤣.

Debbie sorry about your friend's son 27 far to young to died. On the bereavement forum on several of the threads their are parents who had children die young some through illness ,accident or by their own hand . The worst grief of all. My mom was fond of saying no parent should outlive their child . Unfortunately it happens far to often .

Before I moved it never bothered me not seeing my grandsons the ones that had been born often. I was busy looking after others . I am lucky I see 2 of my grandsons . In away I do missed my other 3 but it doesn't hurt as the oldest where 4&2 and don't know their brother. I am a stranger to me and doubt they remember me or even know I exist . I rarely talk about them only to friends I see if they ask ..Since my son sent the emails and the returned cards , presents and final letter . Have never talked to my daughter about them . She just gets cross. When the boys want to know about family I never mention I have a son or their mom has a brother . They think I only have her. When they ask about the photos of my other 2 grandsons I have pictures up and if they ask their names I tell them and they ask if I play with them I say no and they don't ask anymore questions. It's up to my daughter and son in law when the boys are a lot older if they want them to know they have 3 other cousins and another aunt and uncle. I will never say anything.

They do love hearing stories about mom and dad especially my dad's war time but dad only talked about funny things . I spilt dad's photos from his time in the army between me and my brother but gave mine to my grandsons last year as the eldest asked about places he went .

When they came the weekend we sorted out the 3 toys boxes and now down to just the largest one as they have put grown most of the toys . So plenty to take to my favourite charity shop . They took all the books home including my husband's Supercar ,Captain Scarlet and Stingray annuals and a copy of Treasure Island which must have been his sister's . She died when she was 12 and my husband 5. Lots of very colourful illustrations..

Whiff I am envious, been trapped in for days, snow on top of frozen ice makes side roads so dangerous, I had a doctors appointment and to get one is nothing short of a miracle here but just couldn't get there. Just have to wait it out. I would like to have seen that programme but I never put on TV in the day. However well done both groups.
Glad everyone is ok despite the weather, this is the worst I have known it for years.
Smileless, I just think that serenity poem is so true, give me the grace to accept that we cannot change, we can fight against it, try everything but in the end it takes two.

Days behind again . But I must tell you this before I read your posts. A group I a member off has been awarded The Kings Award For Voluntary Services. And last autumn they where interviewed and filmed by the BBC and it was shown on BBC morning programme yesterday . It was in their new slot about community projects . I don't do the litter picking as I would fall over but my grandsons do. The group is also in the running for a Keep Britain Tidy Award. Fingers and toes crossed they win one .

I was at the cuppa and chat morning yesterday we meet once a month . I did say should ask for their autographs .

Morning everyone, I hope you're all managing to keep warm during this cold weather. It was -5 here last night!!!

Our decs came down as usual on New Years day and despite enjoying the run up to Christmas at long last, and having a lovely Christmas, it is nice to get back into a 'normal' routine.

While we're wrapping up in multiple layers when going out including our dogs, DS is spending his school summer holiday lounging on the beach in Aus. and snorkelling.

Yes Allsorts it is up to us, not just too move on with our own lives but to help one another move on with theirs.

When it first happens it doesn't seem possible to recover and find peace and happiness again and then there are those who live in fear of estrangement. Who are watching their relationship with their AC gradually deteriorate and unable to stop it.

It was all so quick for us that we never saw it coming and it took some time for us to understand that even if we had, there was nothing we could have done to stop it.

Counselling is a lucrative business, constant rehashing is pointless, we all have bad things happen but its pointless re opening a healing sore. You do what you can to put things right but it takes two, can’t be done alone, so build on what you have, plan things for yourself, not everyone has close family to help or would want them to if they were there so its up to us, What is helpful is not feeling alone with it as I and many did initially, for years a shameful secret, now there are forums like this and its in the papers every day, public estrangements being played out. Of course there are bad times but they pass.

Hello everyone. Yes Whiff I got the Disney 'Villain' baubles and they'll be out all the time. We have a display unit where my treasured Disney ornaments are kept and Mr. S. fastened some small brass hooks on the underside of 3 of the shelves for me to hang them on.

He'd wondered what I was going to do with them when we bought them but I of course already knew .

TBH Debbie I don't think that even with a definitive diagnosis of autism, that in itself would explain why some AC estrange their parent(s).

There is an awful lot of labelling these days and that's not necessarily a good thing either IMO. Abusive, toxic and narcissistic are often labels attributed to EP's and the reason(s) given for estrangement when such behaviour only accounts for a % of estrangements.

I also think that estrangement is being normalised. There are online sites where information on how to estrange is readily available. Going 'no contact' is too often the go to 'resolution' if there's even the smallest of issues, especially it seems if there's an issue between a wife and her m.i.l.

Over the years here on GN I don't think I've ever come across an EP who hasn't considered every conceivable reason why their AC has estranged them so no, you're not going totally mad, it just feels sometimes as if you are .

I was so sad to hear your story Whiff. How could your son and daughter in law be so unkind to you? But your daughter sounds really kind and supportive so I am pleased that you have her and her family in your life.
I have been trying to make sense of all this estrangement stuff. I find it really hard to understand why our much loved children can turn on their mothers this way. To me it doesn’t feel like normal behaviour. Which has made me think, “has my ED got a ‘condition’?
It seems today that everyone is talking about autism and ADHD and listening to the traits of these, I am now wondering whether my estD might be autistic. It could explain her behaviour, but then maybe I am just desperately looking for a reason why? I know I wasn’t perfect, but its not like I was abusive, or had an addiction problem or abandoned her, but maybe its something she thinks I should have spotted in her childhood? She has had both my GDs tested and one is autistic and the other has ADHD. Not that you’d know it, so why do they all seem to need to have a label these days!
Have any of you ever thought about this? Or am I going totally mad?

Smiles you saying Mr S serenaded you . I remembered our first dance at our wedding my husband sang one twice, three times a lady to me . Like me he was tone deaf.

Hope you did got those Disney decorations. Putting up my tree 1st December decided not to have some of the ornaments on. I always put the breakable ones on and my grandsons put rest on. Brought lots of new ones last couple of years . But like my daughter said most where over 30 years old brought from the first Ye Olde Christmas shoppe in Edinburgh. Taking the tree down yesterday put a lot to take to the charity shop in the autumn. Since moving here my daughter has brought me one every year . The angel on the top she brought the first Christmas after her dad died as I didn't want the star . It's not a cute angel but it's always the last thing to go on the tree and first thing off.

Debbie as my grandsons with my son where 4&2 I don't think they will remember me . If they have asked why they have only one nannie I imagine my daughter in law has told them I don't care or am dead . She estranged her dad when her parents broke up but he and her brother and sister live the other side of the world . Her parents decided to go back to the country her dad was born and she was when she was 18 she didn't want to go her brother and sister where 14&13. She moved to live by my son when he went to uni . The worst thing is she treated me like a mom and cried in my arms many times as she missed her mom and brother and sister. She blamed her dad for taking them away from her. Her parents marriage ended 10 years ago and her mom lives with them . I was told it was temporary until she brought her own place . But she is still with them .
She is a nice woman and I always got on with her. But it really annoys the hell out of me my 3 grandson's are having to share a room while she is still there. They have 3 double bed rooms . I do sometimes wonder if she gloats she is the favoured mom or in fear of putting a foot wrong . She was always allowed to feed ,change nappies etc.

I would never live with my daughter . I decided after my husband died I would never live with my children. I am very independent and after my mom lived with me the last 18 months of her life with cancer and dementia. I will never put my daughter through that. I told her when I took out both powers of attorney and changed my will in 2020 . She is never to look after me and if I get dementia and go into a home she is never to visit me . She said she would .
Things have changed I have already got a plan I am never going to go through what my mom did and never want my daughter to have my memories. Took me a year to think of mom as she used to be before the dementia changed her . Memories I wish I never had nor the scars I still have from my mom .

Once quality of life has gone then quantity does not count . My mom would have hated what she became . Mom died 4 months before her body . I would never wish that on anyone .

Not a good place to be end but losing control over my fingerrr.

As usual days behind. But I get myself so involved with not just GN but other sites I am . So many people hurting and needing help and support but I only go by my own experiences . Also it's taking longer to control my hands to type which is very annoying.

Smiles, Allsorts is right don't know what is worse getting to know your grandchildren or not . I should have realised something was up when my first grandson was born and I came up to see him . We where in John Lewis and my son said do you want to push the pram . It was one of those ones that grew with the child not like when my 2 where born had a second hand Silver cross coach built pram . We had it off friends who after having their son after years of trying and many miscarriages where told not to have any more children as our friend nearly died having him . Lost touch after my husband died. He would be nearly 44 now. Veered off again .

I hit one of the stands and my daughter in law grabbed the pram off me. My son had to grab me so I didn't fall and got my stick off the pram handle for me . Never allowed to push either of their 2 eldest again .

When my daughter had her first funny enough in John Lewis and she said push him mom as it's safer for you . I hit a stand and thought she would take him off me but she just said it's ok mom I keep doing that .

That's the big difference my daughter and son in law have always trusted me with their boys . Their eldest will be 8 this month and when he was born and until January 2020 I had limb jerks since 1988. When my daughter was 4 and son 6 months old . But they trusted me to feed him ,change his nappy and when he was older played with him at bath time while my daughter did other jobs. I never put him in or got him out of the bath in case I dropped him . I even baby sat him so they could go out one night each time I stayed with them . But sat in my room incase he needed me as I wouldn't have been able to get up the stairs quick enough.

When I was at my son and daughter in law's house when it was bath time never asked if I wanted to help or watch . All the things my daughter and son in law trusted me to do with their boys ,my son and daughter in law never did. I wasn't even left alone with them in a room in their house.

When I moved here my son came every week for 7 months with both boys for lunch and play . He told me when they realised especially the oldest used to get excited when realised they where coming here . But even in my own home he watched when I played with them . Both used to love playing monster in my bed . A mad cap game I started with them . My son used to stand in the door way. Still never allowed to help . My eldest grandson was born in winter 2016 his brother summed 2018 and their brother summer 2020.
My daughter's boys winter 2018 and winter 2020.
In age order my daughter's are 2nd and 5th. Son's 1st,3rd and 4th.

They are close in age and last time I saw my son's boys they where 4&2 and don't even know the name of their brother or date of birth. Know when he was due so I wish him happy birthday to the air on that date .
When the estrangement happened I did tell my daughter they never trusted me with my grandsons and thanked her for trusting me . She said silly billy mom you never harm us . Even though my disability got worse I was always hands on mom only thing I didn't do was carry my son up and down the stairs but he learnt to climb them early . And I couldn't go out by myself for years so never took them to school or my son to play school. But thanks to my husband and dad never missed anything they did . And even though I wasn't a school gate mom I still knew all my children's friends parents . Also those parents trusted me with their children when they had play day at our house .

Happy and healthy new year to everyone on here, new or old. 👍🍾

Let’s all hope for a good year. 😉👍🥂xxx