Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Thankyou Babs. I'm sorry to hear your family story. It's all so sad and unnecessary - life's too short 😪

Yes sadly it affects the whole family. My family suffered a split, with relatives I was close to, including my sister and nephews, turning against us because of our estranged daughter, it was messy and painful. To cut a long story short, 12 years later, and one nervous breakdown, those relatives are now also estranged from our daughter and wanting to make amends. But too much was said and done. And my other daughters who were estranged from their eldest sibling also were similarly treated badly by relatives which I can never forgive.
Your daughter is the eye of the storm, and may be forcing relatives to take sides. Don’t give in to this, you made the right decision to take turns on this Christmas walk, make light of it and say that everyone should enjoy it and you will join them next time. Your estranged daughter’s siblings will find this hard, but you are doing the right thing telling them it is ok to carry on seeing their sister, I insisted the same to my other daughters but they estranged from her before we did and have never changed their minds. Just keep your distance and bide your time, showing that you are not the problem here.
Wishing you all the best 🙏🏾🌹

Thanks too for your response Allsorts.
If it's ok to do so, could I ask any of you how this affected the wider family?
Every year, my husband and I meet up with my 4 siblings and my nieces and nephews for a Christmas walk. It caused a lot of upset last year about who should go. We went, but that really antagonised my daughter as she then said she couldn't go because of me. Now it's the same again this year only I have already said we won't go so that she can. But my brothers and sisters are put in a difficult situation and the whole thing might now never happen because of the estrangement so it's starting to affect everyone. I have already told my siblings that I still wanted them to keep in contact with my D if they wanted to, but they are finding the situation quite difficult.
It is also affecting my younger daughter badly too.

Hello and welcome Debbie, no one understands estrangement from their own child, whatever age they are, unless you have experienced it. Now it's talked about in the media and on platforms like this. I see my grandson, who is estranged from his parents too, it has affected him. As someone long estranged who tried everything to reach out, I was told she considered her friends family, not to contract her again, you can't have it straighter than that. She left all of us behind, that is unusual and most estrangements heal after about four years, meanwhile come on here as we all support each other, have bad days and good ones, many reconciled come back to check in as well. The main thing is we understand and you are not alone.

As Babs has said Debbie it was brave of you to post here. I'm sure we all remember how nervous we were when we did so for the first time, and the relief we felt to be understood by the only ones who can truly understand, other estranged parents.

I'm so sorry you've had a bad day today but knowing that you are not alone has helped. There's always someone here who will respond so there's no need for you to feel alone again .

Thanks Smileless and Babs for your kind words. It is a relief to be in communication with people who really understand the pain and who offer advice based on the knowledge of how devastating it is to live with this grief. I've had a bad day today but seeing your replies has helped.
I try to talk to my husband, who is not her father, but as he has never had children himself, he cannot possibly understand how I feel. I don't feel quite so alone now. Thankyou.

Welcome Debbie, I think you are already quite brave for posting on here, I know it is never easy to post about a grown child turning against the person who loves her most and will always love her despite everything. Is such a feeling of betrayal and hurt as well anger that your own child could say such things and stop you seeing your GCs.
Smileless is right sending anything could just make matters worse. And I also think your GCs must have very fond memories of you and those won’t be forgotten.
Two years might seem like an eternity but is not that long compared to some other estrangements, so there could be hope of a reconciliation but that has to come from your daughter, for now think of your well-being and keep busy with things you enjoy.
Christmas will be over as soon as it has begun, is a time we all just grit our teeth and get on with.
Sending hugs 🤗🌹

I'm sure you'll get your credits Yogin but understand you'll be a little worried until you do.

Good news from the dentist, they took an x ray and everything's OK. She thinks it's this cold that's lingering that is causing the discomfort.

Horrible day here. Our dogs haven't had a walk this afternoon because it keeps throwing it down and is bitter cold. They wouldn't thank us for taking them out in it despite having their new Christmas jumpers to wear.

Spoiled!!!! of course not

Hello Debbie and a warm welcome to the support thread. We're always glad when someone finds us but sad that that's because they're also living with the pain of estrangement.

So your GC were 12 and 15 when their mother estranged you. They know you and no doubt have fond memories of their GM which wont go away.

I'm sure they know how much you love them as you were so close, so try not to worry that they'll have been poisoned against you, it's more likely that they don't want to antagonise their mum and are doing what she says by not contacting you.

With that in mind, it might be better not to send them anything for Christmas as it could make things difficult for them with their mum.

I think Christmas is the hardest time of the year for those who have been estranged, regardless of how long it's been and 2 years isn't that long.

You're not alone in thinking you could never forgive your D or be back in her life, I feel the same about our ES and we aren't the only ones.

I know you'll find support and friendship here Debbie and as Christmas looms ever closer and we all struggle, we're here for one another and here for you too .

I am new to GN and have been dipping in and out of conversations. You are all quite brave about your estrangements and I can see many people have struggled with this for years. I am 2 years into estrangement with my daughter and I am still really struggling, especially with Christmas looming. All those happy family ads and movies! I don't think I could ever forgive my daughter and not sure we could ever be back in each others lives' in the same way after some of the brutal things she has said to me. But it's not seeing my Grandchildren that is killing me. We were so close. They are 14 and 17 now and I think they have been poisoned against me. I desperately want them to know how much I love them and want to be there for them and want to send them a gift for Christmas. But I think it would antagonise my daughter and make things difficult for them.
Part of me thinks at least my GDs will see I still care and I don't care if my D comes back with more abuse! But the other part of me says to do what she wants and don't send any gifts.

Morning all

Sorry to hear you and Mr.S have been ill for so long Smiles.
Mine was 8days and took another week to fully recover, but to normal now. Yes, got my sessions completed from the Webinar on Saturday, so fingers crossed they are pleased with it, and I get my credits to keep my membership going for another year. I keep wondering when I should fully retire but feel my life will be empty without my yoga teaching.

Whiff hope you are over your trauma of seeing your estranged son, looking like your DH. It was my estD birthday yesterday, 36yrs. I've said nothing to my other AC, my DD&GDs are coming round at 10am, as the girls have a teaching training day off and my DD has to work, so I'm looking after them till about 3pm.

I'll see if my S&D can guess what day it was yesterday, I would think my DD would. My son's off for the week, so he is going to surprise them when they knock on the door .

Morning everyone, hope you all had a good weekend.

Hope you've completed your paperwork Yogin. With so much red tape nowadays, it's not easy being self employed or running a business.

It's been over 7 years since Mr. S. retired and we often say how relieved we are not to be running a business anymore.

It's a blessing to be a couple and have someone with you on a daily basis to share with Whiff, but the downside is that you witness their pain and there have been times when I've found witnessing Mr. S's., harder to deal with than my own.

You're right about Mr. S., the only DIY he can't turn his hand too is plumbing and I know how lucky I am to have such a handy and hard working husband.

We popped into the shop on Friday and the difference is amazing. Still some painting to do and then it will be down to me, 'a mean lean cleaning machine' to do my thing .

We're still not fully over this cold we've had, Mr. S. for 3 weeks and me for two . I had stomach ache on Saturday until mid afternoon and was relieved that it went as we were going out with friends for a meal.

Enjoyed my starter but when my main arrived I couldn't eat it because my stomach ache had returned. It's one of my favourites so I got them to box up the meat and I had it yesterday for my lunch.

Mr. S. now has tooth ache which must be pretty bad because he's cancelled his bowls match this afternoon so he can go to the dentist; not like him at all. Fingers crossed it isn't anything too serious.

Smiles Mr S can turn his hand to anything . Remember when my husband put re did our kitchen in old house cabinets went in fine and worktops . He then started tiling . I had to stop him as something was very wrong . The butcher we used knew a tiler . Who came and said sorry mate these have to come off . Good job we had brought box extra of tiles as my husband was a klutz and knew he would break some and cut himself. He could paint and the garden was always beautiful. Thinking about Mr S remembered in our first house the walls needed replastering after the wood chip paper was removed. We brought an old tin bath to mix it in and he put the first lot on the wall turned round and heard a splat as it fell off the wall . But he got the mix right in the end . Still can see his face and saying don't laugh which if cause I did . Typical of him he didn't bread the ratio of plaster to water.

In business life my husband had everything prefect and was excellent at his job . But at home another matter . If I didn't pack the cases for holiday he would never have clean clothes.

Mr S sounds as if he was good at his job and good at DIY . My daughter married a man like her dad excellent at his job but she refuses to pack for him .

Bridie unfortunately no magic wands for estrangement. I never regret having my son but my daughter always said from her early teens she was the bestest child . Turned out she was right.

Babs glad you and Yogin got together and you saw Joey.

Forgot to say happy birthday Mr S 🥂🎂.

Yogin this is a mammoth ramble . Really must read and respond quicker . I don't know where the times goes .

As usual getting a page behind no idea where the time goes. Thank you for your support. Like I said it was seeing my son looking like his dad that upset. I know I am a fool to myself. But I can't help but check and see if they are still together. Like I check Rightmove to see if they have moved house. Idiotic I know . But if my son has been how he looked last time then it wouldn't have bothered me .

Anyway better read this page .

bohemian you are not a wicked mother you are a mom who has been hurt beyond measure. Your daughter's have destroyed the trust you had in them which is only natural. I know if my son ever wanted back in my life I can never forgive or forget and he has destroyed the trust I had in him . He never will want back in but to be honest I am happy with that . I am stubborn and have one hell of a temper which I haven't let go since my husband died, apart from at myself if I can't do something I want to do . This might give you a smile at move it or lose exercise class found I can't pop the bubbles on bubble wrap or shut a clothes peg. We where using them for finger exercises. No matter how hard I tried couldn't do it . In my head I swearing fit to burst 😂.

I never talk to my daughter or brother about my son or how I feel . I can talk to strangers but not them . I just find it's sad my son's boys don't know they have an aunt ,uncle ,2 cousins and great aunt and uncle . And my daughter's son's don't know they have another aunt and uncle and 3 more cousins .
But my son made his choice but karma is a bitch and one day he will reap what he has sown .

Babs my son dumped all our side of the family so it just wasn't me . But he hurt my brother very much as he said what the xxxx did I ever do to him . He was there for us all after my husband died but my son could talk to his uncle about things he didn't want me to worry about . He wanted to go round and sort him out but I said no it's done .

The ironic thing is my brother's second wife the mother of his 3 kids was and still is an absolute bitch. I blame her for my nephew's mental health problems and my brother should have protected him . But she did things when he wasn't around . I only know because my nephew could always talk to me and having a grown man crying in your arms because of his mom just made me detest her more.

My brother meet and married my wonderful sister in law and his kids took to her straight away . But his ex wife and her husband if they where all together completely ignored her which suits my sister in law . But I do thing it's funny my ex sister in law is green with jealousy that my brother found the other half of himself. As her marriage is rocky. ( Evil laugh 😂) .
Allsorts you are right his dad would be ashamed of him but then again he wouldn't have done it if he was alive as he would have been round like a shot and had it out with him . That's the sort of man he was .

I know Smiles and Mr S where badly hurt what there son did Babs and Mr B where badly hurt what their daughter did .
And don't know if it's harder on couples or those of us on our own . But the pain of a children turning against you is bad for all parents . Plus the never knowing why. They make but bullshit reasons but they are lies and in my case realising my son is a cruel coward was the hardest thing . Plus never facing me so I can have my say . Because he knows his wrong .

But the best thing we can do is live our lives to the full and be happy . Yes I still love my son and grandsons but not my daughter in law she killed that love . But I don't like my son he is a stranger but then again I am a stranger to him as I am not the mom he knew.

SparklyGrandma you put an imagine of your cats having a conversation with the birds in your garden . Funny enough had a black and white cat in my garden yesterday only the second time I have seen a cat in the 6 years I have lived here. Most people are dog owners .

Thanks Babs did my second one yesterday, doing the 3rd and last today. First one was interesting [a bit], second one boring, it's just promoting Cimspa and asking us to be their ambassadors. When we first had to become a member, it was called REPS [register of exercise professionals].

I and a couple of other yoga teachers refused to join, saying it was just a money-making scheme, which I still believe it is, but in the end, we had to join, otherwise we would not be employed by the Leisure centres or gyms! We also have to have insurance, plus a music licence, so quite a lot to pay out of our small income and being freelance, no sick or holiday pay. So, a job you do for the love of it, not for the wages.

You will nail it Yogi!
Wishing you luck 🍀

Can't put it off any longer; have to do a 3hr webinar for my Cimspa membership, which I have to have to work in the gyms. When I had Covid I got my renewal notice for it, too ill to complete it. When I recovered and went to renewal, they said they had tec. probs. but not to worry the membership would carry on till they fixed things. That didn't happen and I had to do renewal as a new member, uploading all my certs. etc. which had all been deleted by their system automatically . My laptop crashed 2yrs ago, losing all my saved docs. All I had was my Yoga teacher certificate, which I sent a pic of and as that was from 2003, they said I now have to complete the 3hr webinar with Q&A. . I did the first hour yesterday, will do the second hour today and the 3rd tomorrow. Fingers X I get it right.

You are very welcome Babs you needed a little bit of cheer. Get those packers in to help your move be lighter, they are excellent and really make things so much easier.

Thanks for reply Boheminan Long time estranged then. xx

}}}Hugs{{{ back to you Sparkly Your cat has a look on her face to say; don't mess with me!

Morning all, cold one today!

Happy birthday to Mr.S & your youngest GS; bittersweet!
I came back from Africa to buy a property here in UK, we had an agency manging it, who assured us they would vet the renters. On our return, years later, we found out they had rented it out to 3 young guys that worked in the local Pizza hut, they showered in a way that almost brought the ceiling underneath in the kitchen down! . You're giving Whiff a run for her money with your long posts S .

Thanks Stripey 🌹

but of course our other DDs and GCs deserve a good Christmas after the year we have all had

You deserve a break, a rest, some nice food and so on too.

We all do, we are all of value.

Thanks for that Smileless 🌹
And a big thanks to Yogi for treating me to coffee and cake and to Joey for just being super cute 😁

I wish I could too Bridie. I've got a Prof. Dumbledore wand I bought a few years ago in Florida but it doesn't work .

So I've been thinking about how much this thread has helped me; how we have and continue to help one another and how many we've helped over the years on this thread and others where people open up about their estrangements and in the absence of that magic wand, I think we do pretty well.

You're amazing Babs x