Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

TBH Yogin we are reluctant to repeat. It was never really an issue when we always went with them to the Italian on the next door site, but that's closed down.

It's a bit of a dilemma because we always go out as a foursome when they're here and have done so since we moved in .

Went to the lovely Minster in the town just 5 miles from here to see an exhibition of tapestries depicting the Creation through to the Resurrection.

Those on show were one third of the total Jacqie Parkinson has done and they're stunning. The entire collection took 10 years to complete with a total of 25 million stitches!!!

Morning all

Just read Smiles post and no time to read more, will do tomorrow. Sorry to read about your embarrassing meal, I would feel the same, think you may be reluctant to repeat.

Whiff glad you had such a good time at the panto, my youngest GD has one at the end of this month that I'm going to, it's Robin hood, she was hoping for the part of Maid Marion, but think she is a frog .

I only have pics of my GDs in my life, not purposely done, just when I moved, I didn't unpack all my pics, so still in the packing box. Strangely, on my FB page they are there on the left side as family, lovely picture of when I last saw them. Saw a post this morning of a friend's GD who was born on the same week as my Laila, I just looked in wonder at how my estGD must be the same.

Must dash.......

Smiles you are like me have no patience for bad behaviour. It's annoying but also embarrassing not necessarily for you but for the waiting staff. As you said they where very busy. I never mind waiting for my food especially if I know it's freshly cooked. Luckily my 2 GN friends are like me and we chatter while waiting .

Spring you are so right about estrangement. I have a favourite photo of my son and mom dancing at my daughter's wedding. They are both laughing but it's in a cupboard this will sound strange but if I had it out I would feel my son is mocking me .

My sister in law's son's may contact her on birthday,mother's day and Christmas but not always . She hasn't got any photos of them up. Even though my brother has an excellent relationship with his children he hasn't got any photos of them up either . But I am sure there will be lots of their grandchild when I go in July . And I will have photos of my great niece or nephew up here.

I have videos on my phone of my 2 grandsons I know but I can't watch them as I can hear my son and in one see and hear when my daughter in law was pregnant with their 3rd son.But I can't erase them just can't do it.

I didn't see the estrangement coming but I put up with a lot of things I wouldn't have if I lived where I do know . Because I only saw them occasionally where I used to live I was just happy to see them. Plus looking after my parents and mother in law took all my time and energy.

But I am happy my son isn't in my life sounds awful but I have no tolerance for bad behaviour. It's why I left the craft group I had been a member of for 5 years . And let them know exactly why I left I didn't mince my words.

I don't have any photos of my son up as a child simple reason my grandson's would ask questions and they don't know their mom has a brother. My daughter and I haven't spoken about him since the unopened crushed presents ,cards and that letter arrived in August 2020.

That's the great thing about all of you we can say how we really feel and know everyone understands.. 💞

I too have a photo of EC on the wall aged about 7 - and like you Hilltop it reminds me of happier times. I feel ok about it. I think Smiles is spot on when she says we have to do just the things we feel ok about, and lay down the things that are upsetting. Is so much with estrangement we have no control over (triggers coming out of the blue). Seems only to make good sense then to take action where we can to help ourselves stay in a good/stable place. I don’t think I ever before fully appreciated all a peaceful life means. I know I don’t socialise as much as before the estrangement because I’m so tired of those awkward conversations when folk ask about children/gc. And that’s ok. The peace is by far more preferable. I know is different for others but it works for me.

Whiff, lovely flowers, l was once confused by silk flowers. Looked very realistic.
Smileless, what an embarrassing meal out. I would hate that sort of upset.
About photos. Am l unusual in that l still have a photo on my wall of my ES. I got rid of any that show him as an adult, but this one shows him on holiday About seven years old. It just makes me think of the happy times we once had.

just be as certain as you can be that by offering an explanation and requesting a smaller photograph, you wont be offending them Spring.

Estrangement is a bloody nightmare isn't it and we end up questioning and second guessing situations we'd never have thought of it hadn't happened.

Well I'm hoping they wont be coming this weekend Debbie so we can have a relaxed and peaceful evening out, just the two of us.

Sorry to hear about your awkward night out Smiles. I don't think I would want to go out with them again. Making you feeling uncomfortable like that is not ok. It's one thing to complain if the service isn't good but it should be done gracefully, but to make everyone in your party feel uncomfortable about it is inconsiderate and rude. I avoid those situations!

Lovely flowers Whiff - what a nice gesture!

Sorry about your night out Smiles! I’d definitely offer to cook next time 😊
The issue with the photos is we’ve been offered a large framed photo of the non estranged grandchildren professionally taken. It seems (perhaps unreasonably) in my head to diminish the estranged gc, even though we don’t see them. I think putting it up will feel upsetting. Maybe I just explain this and see if it can be changed for a smaller one. An awkward but not impossible conversation. Estrangement really is the ‘gift’ that keeps on giving isn’t it ☹️

No not a drink problem Whiff more of a lack of patience problem and TBH it has put me off going out with them and I think Mr. S. found it rather stressful wondering if I'd be able 'to keep my powder dry' .

It may come as a surprise to you all that I'm not usually backward at coming forward .

Beautiful flowers .

Flowers I got my friend

Smiles and Mr S sorry you had such a horrible experience with that couple. Has the woman got a drink problem if she kept going to the bar?
I take it wouldn't be going out for a meal again with them .

Glad I made you smile . I must have ESP and thought Smiles needs a boost this morning 🤣🤣🤣.

Hopefully this will also make you smile I may have already written but I can't be bothered to read my rambles 😁.
My friend who was in Cinderella is my youngest friend nearly 16. She has health problems so joining the am dram group has boost her confidence. So I wanted to get her some flowers . Anyway decided to buy silk ones from Etsy . I was really happy with them . She loved them and went to put them in water until someone told her they where silk. But they look just like real flowers plus they came in cellophane like from a florists . Never seen such life like flowers. She gave me a big hug and her mom and dad did to . To me it was just a little thing but seeing her face light up was precious. I had put in a card. I don't buy cards for words unless it's a special occasion. The card I gave her had a young woman on a horse riding away. To me it symbolised her journey into going to college and her confidence that she will beable achieve what she wants.

Oh dear that does sound very hairy fairy like I say I am weird.

I meet 2 friends on GN who live in the next 2 towns from me. We meet once a month on a Friday. Last time it was my choice a vegan restaurant but they both loved it . My daughter has taken me there a few times. We pay for our meals separately as it's the easiest way. In January one if my friends had to send her meal back as the meat was very fatty inside. But it wasn't a problem and the chef made sure she had a lean piece which she loved.

Who ever eats out with me knows of my problems as I am upfront about it . As I need my meal cutting up in the kitchen I haven't been able to use a dinner knife for years. And eat with spoon and fork plus plenty of napkins as I can drop food down me . But I have had no problems here or when on holiday.

Morning everyone.

Glad you enjoyed Cinderella Whiff; I can just see you booing, shouting and laughing .

us on chariots led by Smiles fake fur capes flying behind us with sword and spears at the ready that made me Whiff which I needed this morning, after a difficult night out last night.

Two friends we've made since moving here aren't here every weekend and when they are, we always go out for a meal on Saturday evening. The lovely Italian on the site next to ours has closed down so we booked for us all to go to an India last night.

We knew it would be busy and slow and said so but she just made the evening tense and awkward. We'd only been sat down a few minutes when she was up to go to the bar because we hadn't been able to order drinks. It's not as if we were the only ones there and it was obvious that those already seated didn't have drinks.

When they eventually brought our food, they came with the main courses and had forgotten we hadn't had our starters. As I was explaining this to the young waiter, she was asking her husband to move so she could get out and go to order more drinks!!!

Mr. S. had to ask them to take his curry away and reheat it because it was luke warm so it wasn't the best experience but the food was as usual very nice.

When the bills came, she started complaining that they'd been charged for a main course of her chicken tikka when she'd asked for a starter portion. I said he'd obviously got confused because she'd wanted it as a main and when it was brought to the table it was clearly bigger than it would have been had it been a starter size.

I couldn't believe it when she complained saying she wanted £4 knocked off the bill, especially as she'd eaten every bit of it!!! I was flabbergasted and kept repeating to myself what my gran used to say about keeping one's powder dry.

We got a message from the manager of the Italian the night before Valentine's that it was closing and knowing how busy everywhere would be, I said I'd do a meal for us rather than going out. They said they'd try and book somewhere, which they did and it was quite frankly awful.

A very busy and noisy pub with mediocre food which TBH was a waste of money but did we moan and complain? No, because I wouldn't want to make anyone feel uncomfortable when they'd gone to the trouble of booking somewhere for us to go.

I was just relieved when we got home and I could release the annoyance that had been set to burst out of me.

Rant over

Our ES's boys are the only GC we have Spring and none of the few photo's we have of the eldest are of him more than 8 months old, which neither of us derive any pleasure from seeing.

You need to do what's right for you so if having pictures of the GC you're estranged from on show brings you pleasure then do so. If this upsets you then put them away.

As you and Debbie say; it isn't their fault but this isn't about fault, it's about doing whatever makes day to day life living with estrangement that little bit easier because let's be honest, it's anything but easy isn't it.

for you both.

Debbie no nasty posters on this thread. Though we have had them and trolls but we band together behind Smiles and get rid of them . It's other threads on this forum. Ever time a new one appears it turns nasty and posters get deleted and occasionally the whole thread is deleted . You can tell who the trouble makers are also if posters change their username they are found out as they post the same garbage they always do .

This thread if I remember correctly has been running over 13 years Smiles or Yogin will put me right . Many have tried to get rid of it but it's still here for those who need it . An old poster who reconnected with her child can't remember what sex called us Warrior Queens I liked that but some didn't.

Me being me had this vision of us on chariots led by Smiles fake fur capes flying behind us with sword and spears at the ready. 😂. But you have noticed I am weird . But a nice weird.

Spring last time I saw my son's eldest 2 boys they where 4&2. I have the last photo of them in a frame in my living room. Along with lots of photos of the my daughter's boys and other family photos. Many years ago my eldest grandson with my daughter asked about the boys so I told him their names and asked me if I play with them I said no and he nor his brother has never asked. I would never tell them they are my grandsons and their cousins and they have another cousin and aunt and uncle . As far as they are concerned they only have 2 cousins and aunt and uncle my son in law's sisters family . But they know about their great uncle and aunt and their 2 nd cousins soon their will be a 3rd cousin. My oldest niece and her husband are expecting beginning of April so expecting news in few weeks I am a great auntie .

In my bedroom have a frame ironically that my son and daughter in law brought me which they put pictures of their eldest 2 my last Christmas I saw them in 2019. I changed the photos and put in my favourite ones of them . All pictures that contain my son and daughter in law are in a cupboard and I never look at the photo albums of my son and family. I imagine their youngest looked like they did at 4&2. It doesn't make me sad having the photos out because that's the time I knew them .

But of course they won't remember me know . And knowing my daughter in law if they asked anything about if they have another nannie she would have told them I am dead or I don't care about them .

But as I have said my son is now a stranger so are my grandsons. I am not the mom him knew. And I have no room in my life for him not that he will ever contact me every again. If my grandsons do find me then I won't hold back about what their parents put me through before and after the estrangement. I like my life as it is and have no tolerance for bad behaviour from anyone .

I do love my son but the son I had for 32 years not who he is now at neatly 39 . Love my grandsons because they are part of my husband and family . But I don't love them like my grandsons I know and have watched them grow up .

It's an awful thing when you have to protect yourself from your own child . But I made my decision to do just that in 2023 . And to be honest I don't want to see my son . As I know I would slap his face . I can not forgive or forget and he betrayed my trust . Also he broke a promise to me and that is unforgivable.

Yes I have that dilemma too. I still have photos of my two est granddaughters around the house, but to be perfectly honest, at the moment its quite painful looking at them But it doesn’t seem right to take them down - its not their fault.

Sorry the letter wasn’t what you hoped for Debbie - but the advice on here spot on as usual. Estrangement does seem to follow a similar pattern…..mostly hard line cutting folk off rather than being willing to work towards any reconciliation or mutually acceptable interaction. And it seems once a few years have passed even less so.
But I have a question - those of you with children not estranged, what do you do about photos of gc? Knowing we have gc we’ve never met, I feel uncomfortable only having photos of the gc we do interact with around our home. It feels like we are erasing the estranged gcs existence…even though our lack of relationship with them isn’t by choice. And not their fault.

Whiff, so glad you enjoyed Cinderella. Isn’t it lovely watching the young ones thrive? I am seeing my 6 year GD in her dance show on 21st and am so looking forward to it.
I didn’t see any nasty posts on here - have they been taken down? It s a very good website if they are recognised and deleted straight away.

Went to see Cinderella last night my young friend was in it. It was amazing we booed,shouted and laughed. The acting,singing and dancing was better than professionals as they did for the love of it. Sets and costumes where wonderful and all made possible with the back ground members. The atmosphere in the hall was electric all ages where there. They have 2 performances today and last one tomorrow night.

Sat by one of my Womble friends and she gave me a lift home . And I got to meet my young friends dad . She loved the silk flowers I had brought her from Etsy they looked so real went to put them in water. She has over come a lot of health problems. It was her first time on stage she was so confident and funny . So glad I went . Will have to look out for there next production which will probably be in the autumn .

Oh dear the latest threads on this forum are getting nasty . Names coming out of the woodwork haven't seen before and the usual trouble makers are at it . I really don't see the point of people taking pleasure in hurting others . They must live very sad lives .

Morning all, lovely day again.

Madam Butterly was really good, so sad! Had subtitles above, but it was all in the original Japanese dialogue, so not appropriate for our culture & times. For instance, Madam Butterfly was only 15yrs old!

Booked to go to the theatre again this Saturday [The Dualers] & next Friday [an Irish band] with my friend who has just got back from her Xmas visit to her son in Oz.

Have a nice day all xx

Morning everyone.

When it first happens, you simply can't imagine that you'll be estranged for ever can you Hilltop . I lost count of the number of well meaning relatives and friends telling us not to worry he'll be back and yet here we are, more than 13 years later.

That final email I sent our ES did help bring some closure Debbie because I told him that although I loved him and always would, I wouldn't be contacting him again. It had been his decision to estrange but it was mine, not to chase after him.

It's great that you're happy with, and benefiting from having a cleaner Whiff. Even if they're places you can't actually see, you sound like me needing to know that they're clean.

It's such a common ice breaking question isn't it Allsorts; do you have children and GC and I think now that we're estranged, I can see that it isn't always a welcomed one.

I say we have a son in Aus. whose divorced and no children. That seems to work rather well because as far as I can remember, I've never been asked if we have any others. I suppose people just assume he's an only child which to all intents and purposes, he is now.

Can't wait to hear about what you thought of 'Madam Butterfly' Yogin, I hope you really enjoyed it.

It was such a beautiful warm and sunny day here yesterday that it's rather disappointing to be back to an overcast and chilly one today. A little touch of spring yesterday and can't wait for more.

Whiff that spread looks fantastic, it makes me laugh thinking of Wobble Guerrillas let loose with you at the helm. Hope your young friend enjoys her first acting role, it will be good for her
and help her develop more confidence
As a now long term estranged parent, i think of life before that initial blow as BE, before estrangement, another life, I like Whiff don't know her anymore. Life gets so much easier when you finally accept it is what it is. If anyone asks how many children I have I still say two, if rarely I am asked if i see her much I just say no and change the subject. No one new pushes it.

Hilltop nearly 7 years for you how the time flies by . Be 6 for me this year . All we can do is love and care for the people who care and love us. The past is gone we have to live for the now and future. I have to laugh when I look at my calender and see what my week is like . I have things even booked in October .

My cleaner is brilliant but I went with a company that is a care company it was recommended to me by a friend who has someone help her have a shower. I don't need that just a cleaner . Because of my world working through routine and planning when my usual cleaner can't come I know someone else will come.
And they do exactly what I want doing . She comes for hour and half plus we chat . Time flies by and happy with how my home looks afterwards. Mind you yesterday she said mine is the cleanest home she works it . But I know what needs cleaning and I can't do it . I do vac when needed during the week and keep kitchen and shower room as clean as I can . But she reaches bits I can't . Which makes me happy and well worth the money .

Big hi to Smiles ,Allsorts and Madgran. As you can see got control over my finger today 🤣🤣🤣

Yogin hope you had a lovely meal and enjoyed Madame Butterfly.

I am going to see my youngest friend she's nearly 16 in Cinderella her first on stage performance. Forgot what part she is playing but she had overcome life long health problems and just been diagnosed with Dyslexia but not the usual sort like me she has to be different. Funny enough some of her neurological problems are like mine. She is home schooled but will be going to college having the diagnosis means she will get the help she needs while studying. She and her family are Wombles and another Womble is also going to see her tonight so arranged to meet outside so we can sit together. She like all my friends understands my need to sit in a certain place and will be taking my ear plugs with me just in case. Being a member of the am dram group have her the confidence to read a passage out of the bible on Sunday her mom was ready to take over if she couldn't but she did it.

Debbie I am so sorry but unfortunately it's what after my years on here it's what estranged children do. They never take responsibility for their actions and put the blame on you .

I have said before what hurt me most was realising my son is a cruel coward. He should have told me on my birthday he I would never see or speak to him again . Instead an email 4 days later. But it's not just he has cut me out of his life be all over side of the family. My daughter didn't care as I only found out after he sent the email to me and one to her they hadn't spoken for 5 years only when we where all together. But my daughter and daughter in law took an instead dislike to eachother when they meet in 2005 when my son brought her home to meet us.

I love my son but the kind loving son I had for 32 years. He will be 39 this year he is a stranger but I am not the same mom he knew. I have no room in my life for him as my life is full and I am happy . I don't think of him or my grandsons everyday since 2003. Sounds hard hearted but I can never forgive or forget what my son and daughter in law put me through for years before the estrangement and because I didn't see them often living over 100 miles away. I trusted my son he killed that trust . He did something when his dad had cancer before he was terminal I told him never make me feel ashamed of him being my son ever again he promised he wouldn't. He broke that promise.

There is no going back for us . As much as I have 3 grandson's we are strangers and to be honest I don't want a relationship with them . As I wouldn't hold back about their parents . My foolish son thinks the email he sent me has disappeared as he put a 5 year time limit on it plus I have the letter he sent putting the nail on the coffin if our relationship.
From 2020 to 2023 I text him 3 times twice out of necessity and the last to seal the end of our relationship. I decided if I got silence or abuse we are over. I had abuse . So I closed that chapter in my life .

I have learnt since if I hadn't have had him them my HPX wouldn't have caused me to have limb jerks for 32 years and 4 bad seizures. But I don't regret having him it's what we wanted 2 children.

But if people ask I do say I have 2 children and 5 grandson's if they ask if I see them all I tell them the truth. And found so many people are estranged from children, grandchildren or siblings .

I don't talk about my son unless anyone asks in real life . Just talk about my daughter and family .

Funny thing I never liked my brother's second wife and my husband hated the sight of her but she was family and never treated badly . I hated my in laws and they hated me . I hated my mother in law for 40 years she outlived her son by 11 years . Even though she denied he never existed or had 2 grandchildren and refused to go too their weddings . I still looked after her . It's how I was brought up she was still family .

It's easy to abandon people but I have never done anything the easy way. Being brought up in a large extended family never knew I was different as in disabled until high school and bullied for 5 years.

But I think we are tougher breed no one ever gave us anything what we wanted we worked ,saved and made sacrifices to get. I hate the phase bank of mom and dad.

I am proud both couples brought their own houses and paid for their own wedding with no financial help from me .

We bring our children up to be adults and have to let them fly who they fall in love with it's down to them . If they make mistakes in their lives unless they ask our opinion we have to stay silence.

Debbie if you do write that final letter I hope you never post it . A letter won't bring you closure only deciding it's over will and letting go of your daughter for good . Sounds harsh but don't hurt yourself more and never blame yourself . Your daughter made her choice and that doesn't include you in her life. Only by accepting that will you come to terms with it yes it will hurt but it won't hurt forever. But I made the decision in 2023 I am done with my son it wasn't easy but for my physical and mental health I had to .

I cut him out of my will in 2020 left nothing to my grandsons . My daughter is the only beneficiary unless she dies before me then her son's will inherit. I took out both powers of attorney at the same time and my daughter and son in law are my attorneys I trust my son in law as much as I trust my daughter .

Bad behaviour does not get rewarded as a child so would an estranged child expect to inherit . Plus my son will never know when I die .

Estrangement doesn't just cause emotional distress but you also have to think of the practical side of things as well. Some choose to leave their estranged child or children in their wills and leave something to the grandchildren. My husband and I never believed grandchildren inherit from grandparents but their parents .
If my daughter gives her boys something from my estate that's her choice . But I am not planning on dieing anytime soon . I have already decided when I end up in a wheelchair which will happen but I will fight that hopefully I have 10+ years before that happens I am having an all terrain one.

Debbie, I'm so sorry that the reply was not good.
After nearly seven years of being estranged, but very occasionally l would send an email to which l would get varying replies, l have recently sent my ES the last one l will send. I've left it up to him now, l know he will not contact me. I know we would have reconciled if his wife was different, as Smileless said of her son, it would not have happened anyway but for her.
Like you l cherish my relationship with my daughter and her family. And l understand how upsetting this has been for you.

Whiff, l love reading your posts. I'm pleased you have a cleaner, l think l should get one too.