Support and friendship for those whose lives have been affected by estrangement.

Morning everyone.

So pleased that the nightmares have stopped Whiff and you're getting a peaceful night's sleep.

For me it's age and experience that has tarnished my tolerance for bad behaviour and it was the message from my cousin just before Christmas, giving me at his request contact details for my brother, that brought home to me just how much my tolerance has diminished.

Relationships are a two way street, whether or not they're personal and IMO there needs to be something positive, something to be gained from all concerned for that relationship to not only be viable, but worth having.

Looking back at the build up to my brother's estrangement of me, I could see that to resume contact would be a world of pain all over again which is why I didn't contact him and is why we don't want contact with our ES.

You said Whiff that your post sounds harsh; I disagree. No doubt to some my post sounds selfish but it's no more selfish than the act of estrangement was in our case.

We often see/hear how EAC do what they do to protect their mental health which I'm sure some do and if this is acceptable, it should also be acceptable for any EP to protect their mental health by not attempting to initiate reconciliation, or refusing to engage with an EAC who decides this is what they want to do.

Because of what we went through, because what our son did almost broke us, moving on without him isn't and never was a choice, it was and remains a necessity. So much so that we have never tried to reconnect with him.

The complete opposite to you, my dear friend Yogin which we often say don't we because after 6 years of trying to reconcile, and trying to see the GD you'd had such a special bond with because she and your D lived with you for the first years of her life, you remain estranged .

We always keep everything crossed for anyone reaching out to their EAC, and wait with bated breath to know if they get a reply and if it's the reply they hope for.

Some need to know that at least they tried. I've never had that need.

I’m sorry you’re angry - where did I imply you did that, rather than just offer an alternative scenario to those saying not to write?

Stillawipp your post made me feel angry. 6yrs of my trying to reconcile, police sent to my home with me having to sign a document of harassment, death threats to me & my little dog, the courts denying me visitation rights to my beloved GC. My first GD lived with me [& her mum, my D] we had a very special bond. When her stepdad started the campaign to cut me out, due to jealousy, I was highly suicidal. So, for you to imply I was happy to walk away, with you doing the right thing, couldn't be further from the truth.

Good to hear the nightmares have stopped Whiff. I agree with all your points on your above posts. Bringing your C up and letting them spread their wings and fly the nest, doesn't mean never seeing them again. I have a wonderful relationship with my AD&S, as it should be.

Good luck Debbie. 13plus years NC is the norm on here. I've read all the books, but most are not written by estranged ones, so no first-hand understanding.

Debbie I hope you get the result you want . But hope you have prepared yourself if it back fires.

There have been past posters who have reconciled with their estranged child but they had to walk on egg shells to do it and protect themselves. Can't remember who it was but something to do with a rope . Never understood what it had to with it . Been a couple of years since she posted .

We are all different and what we want out of life . Estrangement wasn't our choice but we can choose if we want to try and reconnect. I choose not too after I tried in 2023 and had an abusive text . So I decided to give up hope and live my own life . I never denign I have a son and 3 grandson's. Unlike my mother in law who denign she ever had a son after he died or had 2 grandchildren who always bothered with her . And refused to go too their weddings .

We all have to decide how much we will tolerate from our children. As I have gotten older and health problems has eroded any tolerance for bad behaviour. So I am not bothered if I ever see ot hear from my son ever again . Sounds harsh but I have my limits and reached the end .

DebbieJP I really hope your letter brings a positive response, and if not you can take comfort in the fact that at least you tried. I too tried to reach out every few months but then our EC said they didn’t want any contact from us. We are respectful people and so went along with their wishes….but it makes it really hard after a lengthy period of time, knowing if we should try again. Our EC went through a troubled patch but has managed to now build a good settled life for themselves. We are so relieved and happy about this, even though we’re not a part of it. I really don’t want to do anything to throw them off course, which is why I’m not sure we can/should reach out again. No easy answer for us I’m afraid.

Good luck Debbie xx

Thankyou all for your responses. I have decided that I'll post the letter and I'll let you know if I get a response.

DebbieJP, i really hope your letter leads to some response, like you i find it hard to resign myself to estrangement, it is a constant tug at my mind.
I did manage contact with my EC, but it was so emotional i just couldnt find the words i needed, but i will keep hoping. Good Luck

DebbieJP, I think it's wonderful that you are thinking of writing a letter to your daughter - as you say, at least you then know that you have tried, whatever happens. I chose never to give up hope, after 4 years of estrangement, and if I hadn't done exactly what you are planning, I wouldn't have just put a toddler grandson down for a sleep, be going to collect a granddaughter from school at 3 and another from nursery at 4.30.
I totally understand those who have decided to move on without their EAC but, for me, that wasn't an option I was prepared to accept and I am so, so glad I wrote.
You are coming at it with exactly the right approach - the advice in that article sound perfect, & I wish you huge amounts of luck. Even if it gives you partial reconciliation again, for me, that would have been better than none, and was something I would have been prepared to accept. Happily though, it made a huge difference and now, 2 years on, we are a huge part of all of their lives .

Posted that so I wouldn't lose it .

Debbie you say limited contact would be better than no contact . But how could you live like that knowing at any moment your daughter would hurt you all over again and go no contact . Then the cycle would start all over again . The pain would be worse than you are feeling now . It would be like a cat toying with a mouse before it killed it .
I am not being horrible but realistic. People sugar coat things but I wasn't brought up to be that sort of person . If people what my honest answer to a question I do ask if they do want it or not . But I do warn them they probably won't like the answer . My nephew did that years ago and didn't speak to me for 6 weeks . When he did I told him exactly what a shit he was and I had warned him. In fact if I remember correctly I thumped his arm . My brother has never known as it was between my nephew and me.

Spring we bring our children and instill good values into them and once 18 we have to let them go . How they live their lives is up to them while my husband was alive and after he died the children did ask our them my opinion if they wanted it . But before and after he's death we never interfered in their lives. As we set down our rules bringing up our children, they set these for bringing up these which I have always followed. We brought our children up the same . And as far as can it see it's who our children fall in love with and build a life together.

My daughter has a wonderful husband and have excellent relationship with him and his parents . I loved my daughter in law and was there for her when her own parents weren't . Lost count of the times she cried in my arms . But she showed her true colours when her parents marriage broke up and her mother has been living with them for 10 years this year. Funny enough I got on very well with her mom . Perhaps that's what she didn't like plus the fact my son loved me and my grandsons loved coming to see me every week for 7 months before covid hit.

My son had to choose his wife and family over me I understand that . I would never have made him choose as our children's families come first . But he should have told me to my face .

To be honest I am happier not seeing them and live my own life my way . My daughter laughs her boys and me have better social life than she does.
She was here with the boys yesterday but she always asks if I am free before coming . My grandson loved his birthday presents and card . His brother decided to do some cleaning then they both played with my exercise ball and foam baton. The youngest came up with an exercise with the baton and I promised to show my instructor what he thinks we should do.

Well it's cuppa and chat this morning then sit fit to work off the cake and toast I will be eating .

Take care all . And thank you all for caring about me 💞

Nightmares have stopped. I wished my husband happy birthday like I do every year . Still no tears which is odd. Funny enough I don't feel sad . The grief is still very much there and the rage and anger I feeling over him dieing ,but it's what I use to get me through everyday without. Just hope my son remembers.

Debbie and Spring these so called experts don't know what it's really like . My best friend was a family counsellor for over 20 years before she retired. When I told her about the estrangement she put on that voice I wasn't very polite in telling her to knock it off as I don't need counselling but my friend . Haven't spoken to her about how I feel since . Unfortunately after many miscarriages they where told she could never carry a baby to term .

My view on the world unless you have personal experience of something then keep your trap shut as you have no idea what you are talking about.

The only book I read about estrangement was after I first started posting openly on here Smiles and Yogin recommended it . My get the titled bit wrong but sure it was called Abandoned parents :The Devil's dilemma by Sharon A Wildley . Can't remember where I put it by Smiles or Yogin will put me right on the title by think I got the authors name correct. She is American and estranged from her children and talked to lot of estranged parents . In America it's called elder abuse . So she knows what she is talking out and some if people's experiences where awful.

I am sick to death of these so called experts blaming the parents and saying it's up to them to make the first moved. Excuse my language but bollocks to that . My son sent a text 4th May 2020 saying he was sending me and his sister and email and not to contact him . He ended his email by saying I love you mom but don't like you . And to give him a few months . Have written about sending him birthday card etc for 13th August and then it all coming back on the 14th all unopened,crushed baby presents and his hand written note.

I gave up any hope of seeing or hearing from him in 2023 and been happier. If he thought to destroy me he is wrong . It's my 5 grandson's I feel sorry for as they don't know they are cousins .

Debbie it wasn't foolish wondering if your daughter would turn up with flowers . Your estrangement is still very new and you still have hope . When it was my oldest grandsons birthday in October I wanted to send him a card and money but I didn't as I wouldn't let my son hurt me again but sending it back unopened. So last time my son's eldest 2 had any gifts from me was Christmas 2019.

You say in the article to park the anger if you want a reconciliation. Written by someone who has never felt the pain of estrangement. I didn't abandon my son he made his choice . Your daughter made hers .

I still love my son but the son I had for 32 years . He is now a stranger as I am to him . I not the mom he knew . He destroyed the trust I had in him and I can never forgive or forget what my son and daughter in law wrote about me . But what did hurt me was the fact realising my son is a cruel coward. He should have told me to my face when I saw him on my birthday I would never see or speak to him again . But I know dam well he couldn't have done it .

I hate it when so called experts say adult children estranged parents for their mental health. Rubbish . Why the last 20 years bad behaviour is put down to mental health problems. It's just an excuse. My nephew has mental health problems but he that's down to the treatment of his mother growing up but he still sees his mom weekly he's 38 . She was completely different with his sister's I don't think she wanted a son . I also blame my brother for not stopping her when she had a go at my nephew in his presentence . If anyone should have estranged their mom my nephew and 2 nieces should have done that to their mom as they had plenty of reasons to.

My parents used to visit them then come round to ours . While I made the tea my parents cried over her treatment of the children. My brother worked away during the week . And for years he never believed me or if my husband was working from home that she made our parents cry.

Debbie for your own piece of mind don't hold on to the hope of reconciliation. It will be 6 years in May since my son sent the emails . For Smiles and almost sure it's the same for Yogin been 13 years . Think it's been about that or longer for Allsorts.

Why I decided to give up hope because I didn't cause the estrangement and never blame myself for it . My son has hurt my brother deeply and that is unforgivable. My brother was there for us after my husband died and while both the children could always talk to me my brother was there for my son when he needed a man to talk to and hold him when he cried . He went to my brother as he didn't want to upset his grandad.

I read the article DebbieJP and just felt weary that the focus seemed to be mainly on the young people and little on the devastating effect on parents. It probably is worth trying a reconciliation again (we did at a similar stage) but as you say it can also lead to more heartbreak. We recently had another window to reach out….but decided not to. The reasons were a) fear - we’ve had to work hard over the years to get to a stable place with the estrangement, and b) our EC has now established a new and settled life and we worry about disrupting that. I read recently that the job of parents is to equip their children to build their own lives independent of us….I guess estrangement is that in extremis lol!
So sorry to hear of the tough time you’re having Whiff. Hope peaceful sleep comes soon. You continue to amaze and inspire us all with your positivity and can do attitude.

Will be glad when Feb and this endless rain ends….feeling v unsettled at the moment which is probably a result of estrangement issues both nationally and personally raising their head. As I said, we do have to work at staying in a good place with it all. No one understands estrangement unless it happens to them, no matter how much is talked about in the media.

Whiff, I have been thinking about you and your difficult days to get through and I hope you are ok. It’s so hard when these special dates come around. I just had my birthday and stupidly wondered whether my EstD would turn up with flowers!!

I wonder if any of you have read the article on todays BBC news page about estrangement, and examples of other people who have and are going rough it?
I have been giving my situation some thought since I read it. I have also in the past couple of months read books by psychologists who claim to be experts in estrangement.
Everything seems to say that it is up to the parent to make first first move to try to reconcile. Saying that, in most cases, the AC would have only gone as far as they have with NC (no contact) if they needed to do so for their own mental health. My first reaction was ‘what about mine’?

But then I read that if reconciliation is possible, I have to ‘park’ the anger and upset that I feel and to look at their perspective.
If I am still carrying all this anger and resentment, reconciliation will never work.
So today I am having a feeling sad day and looking at what I did and said, I have decided I am going to write a letter to her. The ‘experts’ say that it must not be about how this has upset me, but to show an understanding and start by saying you are open to reconciliation etc. etc.
I know I am risking more rejection but I just have to give it one more try. My ex husband seems to think that she has ‘dug herself into a hole and she can’t get out of it so maybe this gives her a window of opportunity to make contact again.
I will write, read, re-read and read again before I send it though!
We are into our third year of estrangement now and it seems 3 years seems to be an average length of time for estrangement. So here’s hoping before the end of the third year, we will have reconciled in some way. I am not expecting it to go back to how it was though, but limited contact would be better than no contact.

Hard week for you Whiff, hope the nightmares go soon. Your husband would be so super proud of you and I know he's always in your heart.

I know why the nightmares have started . Woke up shouting for my dad last night . Monday would have been my husband's 69 th ,Tuesday the date of our first date in 1975 and the 6 th 22nd anniversary of his death. We where married for 22 years. Haven't shed a tear yet which is unusual as I normally have by now . Hence my nightmares. Problem is the nightmares set my HPX off and my limbs stiffen and end up like a starfish. But they soon loosen and get back to sleep .

Busy all day Monday and Tuesday. Going out of the day on Friday not sure where yet but I don't want to stay home.

I remember years ago asking my son when did he think grief will end he said probably 20 years. But there is no end and gets worse . Just hope he remembers next week about his dad ..I know my daughter never forgets.

Hope you have a nightmare free night dear Whiff xx

Sorry to read you're having nightmares Whiff xx

I only have one picture up, a group one of us all, but it was so long ago, the children now all adults, seems another life.
Alexa seems brilliant but I don't like the idea of it always observing me, however those with them say how brilliant they. are.
Since I told people, when asked about my daughter, it was surprising how many opened up about their family problems but I seldom mention it now.
Would hate all my business out there like the celebs do.

Allsorts I would never say anything if the boys asked without clearing it with my daughter. We decided before we had kids once they where 18 if they asked for advice then we would give it but otherwise say nothing . My husband dieing when they were 20&16 did it with my son from then.
It's my thinking ahead and the way my life works by planning ahead and routine. Plus next week it would have been my husband's 69th birthday on Monday ,Tuesday anniversary of our first date in 1975 and the 6 th 22 years since he died . The length of time we where married.

I don't feel sad but the nightmares have started which I haven't had for years. So in a bit of a jumble at the moment. But busy everyday this week and next .

Yogin I have the last picture of my son's eldest in my living room next to family photos. They were 4&2. Few years ago my daughter's eldest asked who the boys where I told them their names he asked if I played with them and said no . He didn't ask again . I have 8 photos of the in a frame my son and daughter in law brought me the last Christmas. Had their hand prints in it and some photos but I changed them to my favourite photos of them. All pics of my son and daughter in law are in a cupboard.

I never talk about any of them to anyone in the family. My brother gets angry not with me but them . But I do talk about them if anyone asks how many children I have and grandchildren. At the last cuppa and chat the lady next to told me about her sister who cut ties via a vicious text years ago . Before that they where very close she doesn't understand why she changed . Like me she didn't know it was called estrangement.

Lost count of the number of people who have told me about it happening to them . But at least it's not a taboo subject anymore. This thread has helped me so in my odd way I try and help others .

Yoginimeisje

I had one of those smart plugs for years, just given it to the charity shop. Do you have to plug all the lights into the smart plug? If so it's no different to having them on a multi-plug. I don't have an Alexa, they do sounds good.

Whiff we talk about my estD & estC, I don't have lots of pictures up since moving, just one of my 3C when they were all very small, my GC ask who they all are and we just say. We have conversations about them; just saying your auntie J or your cousins L&J they don't ask any more questions.

Yes, you plug each appliance into its own smart plug so that each one connects to WiFi

I am fortunate to have a tech savvy husband who loves gadgets and he has set up Alexa to do so many things. The house lights, the garden lights and the Christmas lights etc. and my only problem now is that he does so much of this tech stuff that I have never learnt how to do it. I struggle to put our TV on too as we have 3 remote controls !!
I do find Alexa useful for other things, especially if I am travelling to my daughters and I ask Alexa what the traffic is like. It’s also great fun with my 6 year old GC as we ask Alexa all sort of funny things - and play children’s songs. So worth having I’d say.

Morning everyone. I hope the weather is better where you are because it's horrendous here and unfortunately Mr. S. has to go out as we're having a new meter fitted at the shop because we've changed suppliers.

My only experience of Alexa was when we were at our neighbours and requesting songs that we wanted to listen too. For some reason when Mr. S. spoke, he was ignored and said it was like being at home!!! Flaming cheek .

I had one of those smart plugs for years, just given it to the charity shop. Do you have to plug all the lights into the smart plug? If so it's no different to having them on a multi-plug. I don't have an Alexa, they do sounds good.

Whiff we talk about my estD & estC, I don't have lots of pictures up since moving, just one of my 3C when they were all very small, my GC ask who they all are and we just say. We have conversations about them; just saying your auntie J or your cousins L&J they don't ask any more questions.