From the mouth of babes....and hopefully, a breakthrough..

Allsorts

Very disturbing situation and not good for the children, they are caught in the middle.

They are and it's awful. I'm sure they feel guilty or like they are betraying their parent by wanting to be with the grandparent or enjoy them.

It's not fair to them and they should have every single loving family member they can, they deserve that.

keepingquiet

It is very cruel but no one cares- her mum is treated like Lady Madonna but her 'other' family know the truth.

She is cruel, maybe not physically abusive but certainly emotionally and socially.

The court gave us a few hours a week, we were told to take the 'crumbs from the table' in court.

Well crumbs are not good enough for my GC and we'll keep going until she takes her rightful seat at the table.

Emotionally cruel. Yes, that's my daughter too. I am glad you are fighting for your GC. I am too; both of them always seem to enjoy and want to be around me, and my husband too.

We hope that will continue, but it will be a fight. Kids eventually move on when people are not in their lives, it's natural, they meet so many new people all the time and everything is new to them. We get left behind if we aren't around for them much, so the goal is to keep in their lives as much as possible.

That doesn't mean all the time, just as much as we can.

He and I are always thinking up ways/activities/places to go as a way to get an extra day in now and then with them and hopefully share some of their lives other than the obligatory weekend visit for a couple hours my daughter does, except when something else comes up of course, again priorities are not with her family anymore and it is hurtful.

She knows we would even just take the kids once in awhile so she could have a break , she used to ask, now she never does.

She has shown she doesn't want us to have the time we used to with them. She's doing that slow partial estrangement, classic grandparent alienation , along with bad mouthing me with them. I just hope we can fight it off.

She never used to be this way. She was family oriented and always encourged us in her and her kids lives. But now her marriage ended and she has slowly become a monster I don't recognise.

Well, keep fighting! It sounds like you have a wonderful GC and that's reason enough!

Yes, and no one cares about them...

Very disturbing situation and not good for the children, they are caught in the middle.

It is very cruel but no one cares- her mum is treated like Lady Madonna but her 'other' family know the truth.

She is cruel, maybe not physically abusive but certainly emotionally and socially.

The court gave us a few hours a week, we were told to take the 'crumbs from the table' in court.

Well crumbs are not good enough for my GC and we'll keep going until she takes her rightful seat at the table.

keepingquiet

Very wise Starfire.

We will be having my GC soon- and we were thrilled that it conicided with a family party she can attend for a change, if only for two hours.

However, her mum is now saying something about GC attending some sort of sports day- although the details are nebulous and is nothing to do with school.

To use children like this is disgusting.

My god, yes, it is disgusting. I read that grandpatent alienation isn't just about going no contact/complete estrangement. Sometimes is limiting visits, talking bad about grandparent, forcing limits on gifts/goodies even though not with others. Overall attitude that grandparents are not important to have in their lives.

No doubt, it sounds like there is some grandparent alienation going on in your case...shes making it clear to your GC its not important to spend time with you.

Other things always take priority.

It's rude in general but beyond that, it's cruel.

Very wise Starfire.

We will be having my GC soon- and we were thrilled that it conicided with a family party she can attend for a change, if only for two hours.

However, her mum is now saying something about GC attending some sort of sports day- although the details are nebulous and is nothing to do with school.

To use children like this is disgusting.

Update. Had a visit since the granddaughter's conversation. My grandson never says I love you to me and suddenly during play, he did! Of course, we were all outside and my daughter had chosen to stay indoors; I had always noticed him being more stand offish with me, usually only when she was present though.

But the very idea that he wasn't completely brainwashed was such a relief.

I acknowledged what he said and told him it made me so happy I could cry (and I was fighting back the tears!) Then my granddaughter proceeded to hug me too!

So, either she had a talk with them due to being caught, or, her tactics really haven't worked. Either way, I have hope now.

I will tread very carefully, show them all the love I can while trying to appease my daughter's never ending and ever changing rules.

She's a hypocrite in so many ways, rules for me but not others. Example: we are restricted in what kind of movies we can show the kids, now, I get it, certain ones are not appropriate age wise and I myself agree, to a point that is.........but, I keep finding out her boyfriend can put anything on he wants on the TV when at her place and my 8 year old grandson has described certain scenes from some violent action movies!

Not sure if she is aware my grandson peeps or sees this stuff, but I have learned, just say nothing, because saying something always, somehow, gets put back on me.

Literally. I have tried to help in the past, be an advocate for her and somehow, got it thrown in my face. Guess it's perceived as "interferring" rather than help.

So, I'm done with that. Let her figure it out, or not. Not my problem.

Now she complains my grandson is always talking about killing. Well, at least she can't blame me for that one! Or can she? She might. Well, at least I know about the scenes he saw from the boyfriends movie viewing. So worst case, I can refer her to that fact, if it comes up.

Not that she would criticize her boyfriend. God forbid. Critisim is reserved for grandma, no one else.

Every parent could use help, and sometimes grandparents find out things that can be helpful. That has always been my goal, to help my daughter, but somehow when I do, she seems to think I'm interfering or wrong.

So, I'm free of it. Let her struggle.

Thank you keepingquiet

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Yes, Starfire, waiting it out is the best thing to do.
Sometimes, we have to master our emotions otherwise they master us.
I don't look at it as ammunition either- I am not at war with the child's mother. I am just aiming to be a positive and loving influence in my grandchild's life. I have no axe to grind with her mother- she has to bear the consequences of her own actions.
Your final sentence sums it up. Don't waste those precious years! Your grandchild isn't interested in being at war- they just want to explore, grow and find their way in the world and they need grandparents to be those clear and reliable signposts.
I wish you all the best.

keepingquiet

I was in the same boat recently. My 5 year old GC whispered something to me that was quite revealing about her mum. It is difficult to know what to say but I asked her again because I thought I hadn't heard right and she repeated it again.

I'm not about to confront her mum about it though... just keep it to myself and see how things go...

Yes, that sounds wise. I'm one who has learned the hard way not to let my emotions dictate my actions. I don't think things shouldn't be confronted or discussed when necessary, but sometimes it's like you said.....see how it goes is the better choice.

Wish I had known that sooner, I could have avoided a lot of woe.

I almost wanted to say something this time, but realized it's better to leave it alone.....even if she didn't hear her daughter.

It was really hard to hold it in, I almost blew it, but I knew deep down and from reading posts about estrangement, some sort of showdown does play a part in some of the cases.

Better to leave it, almost like a piece of ammunition when you may need defense. Tuck it away for a rainy day, if necessary.

I mean, if these things bother me, I can always let her know later, when I might be ready to walk away myself.

Why lose these years of loving grandkids because of it? I will wait it out.

I was in the same boat recently. My 5 year old GC whispered something to me that was quite revealing about her mum. It is difficult to know what to say but I asked her again because I thought I hadn't heard right and she repeated it again.

I'm not about to confront her mum about it though... just keep it to myself and see how things go...

stillawipp

She may now change the way she speaks about you to her children, and that would be wonderful for you. The most important thing for the children’s’ sake, though, is to try not to undermine or criticise her mother to her, or get her ‘onto your side’ against her mother. Saying that she now hates her mum is really sad, and must feel very unsettling for a 5 year old, so it’s really good that you immediately put her right on that. A very difficult path for you to treat - fingers crossed for you!

Oh thank you so much for your support! Yes I am taking all advice here. I am encouraged by my granddaughters reaction. I think yes if I take the straight and narrow, keep that powder freak as a daisy maybe I will at least have a least loving grandkids, if not my daughter.

I won't count on her although it would be nice. But no use giving more flame to the fire.

Starfire has said in her OP what her D does ChaIked; she tells the children that the OP does bad things and makes her GC do bad things.

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*tread

She may now change the way she speaks about you to her children, and that would be wonderful for you. The most important thing for the children’s’ sake, though, is to try not to undermine or criticise her mother to her, or get her ‘onto your side’ against her mother. Saying that she now hates her mum is really sad, and must feel very unsettling for a 5 year old, so it’s really good that you immediately put her right on that. A very difficult path for you to treat - fingers crossed for you!

One of my maternal GM's sayings was "keep your powder dry" and that is what you must do Starfire.

You have a very bright GD and handled it just right when she said she hates her mum. As long as there is contact, you can hopefully mitigate the things your D's saying about you to the children. They know how you are with them and will see how you behave toward your D.

Sadly, I agree with Namsnanny that she's unlikely to stop but may well become more cunning which is why how your respond will be key.

Make the most of every opportunity you have to spend time with the children to show them who you really are.

I have no idea why some parents do this, using their children as weapons with no thought to what this does to them and they accuse their parents of being toxic!!!

I really felt like blowing up on her......asking her why is she saying such poison to her kids. But, I know these things can get turned around, somehow it would end up my fault and full estrangment would be a possibility, so for my grandkids I did not.

If we are ever estranged, it won't be because I handed it to her on a silver platter...

Namsnanny

Blunt but No I don't think so.
She will be more cunning careful in front of gd. She may even gaslight gd un an effort to regain her trust. Sorry but been there.

Ugh. How horrible. Ok, well, I was hopeful. Will keep in mind what you say and be on alert. Luckily, both my grandkids will talk about stuff if I mention things, I suppose I can always find out, eventually.

Sorry that happened to you. What possesses adult kids to do this? I mean, I get it if they have a beef with us, most kids have something with their parents they don't like/agree on, but to poison innocent kids?

I could never in my life, even in times my mother was difficult, do such a thing. What is going on in society that creates this sort of thing? Or is it like that bibical thing, end of days, daughter against mother, son against father stuff?

Infuriating, but heartbreaking.

Blunt but No I don't think so.
She will be more cunning careful in front of gd. She may even gaslight gd un an effort to regain her trust. Sorry but been there.